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Discussion Starter #1
I have installed a 4 channel 150W amp in the Chevelle, with RCA cables and it sounds great. BUT, that was coming, I do have a whine coming through the speakers that is quite loud when the engine is running. I do have a noise filter that I have had, if this will work what wire to I splice into to make it work correctly?

If it it something else, please give me a direction on this. I am more of a mechanical minded person and electronics have never been my strongpoint
 

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Check it out, bud

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/learningcenter/car/noise_diagnose.html

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/learningcenter/car/noise_faq.html

The mounting tab must be grounded.
It has a pair of red wires for one circuit, a pair of green wires for a second circuit, and a pair of black wires for the third circuit.
To install, splice a filter circuit (a pair of wires that are the same color) into each power lead of the electric motor that is causing the noise.
Current can flow through the filter in either direction.

also, I think you said you were using RCA for everything, this is a link to one that might look like yours and it has short install instructions -

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-f35dUE4TPje/ProdView.asp?a=0&s=0&cc=01&g=780&id=detailed_info&i=127SNI1

Thats what I could find. I dont know much about noise suppressors, I jsut ran monster cable type wire in mine and it cleared it all up.

Just keepin' ya bumped up.
 

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also make sure your grounds arn`t more than 12 in.long on your amp. this will help stop most eng. whines also check the ground on your deck . one other thing to check is were does your remote turn on for your amp. go to ?is it to the deck ? or to the fuse panal of your car ? it should go to your deck not the fuse panal.the power ant. lead off the radio is also a remote amp turn on , or it could have its own wire maked amp turn on and make sure this wire is not to big use 18 to 21 gage wire here , for the main wire on the amp go staight to the battery with at lest 12gage wire hope this helps.
don
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Originally posted by warchild:
also make sure your grounds arn`t more than 12 in.long on your amp. this will help stop most eng. whines also check the ground on your deck . one other thing to check is were does your remote turn on for your amp. go to ?is it to the deck ? or to the fuse panal of your car ? it should go to your deck not the fuse panal.the power ant. lead off the radio is also a remote amp turn on , or it could have its own wire maked amp turn on and make sure this wire is not to big use 18 to 21 gage wire here , for the main wire on the amp go staight to the battery with at lest 12gage wire hope this helps.
don
Thanks guys for the responses so far


I do have a ground wire that is only 6 inches long and it goes right to the body of the car in the trunk area. I do however, have the 10 guage wire going to the horn relay on the drivers side where the positive wire comes off of the batt and goes around the front of the car. I just thought it would keep it clean looking, if this is the culprit I will change it pronto.

The remote is connected to the antenna wire on the deck, it is a small wire that I used the same size as the out.

Beaux, still have those speakers?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Originally posted by Midnight Marauder:
Check it out, bud

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/learningcenter/car/noise_diagnose.html

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/learningcenter/car/noise_faq.html

The mounting tab must be grounded.
It has a pair of red wires for one circuit, a pair of green wires for a second circuit, and a pair of black wires for the third circuit.
To install, splice a filter circuit (a pair of wires that are the same color) into each power lead of the electric motor that is causing the noise.
Current can flow through the filter in either direction.

also, I think you said you were using RCA for everything, this is a link to one that might look like yours and it has short install instructions -

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-f35dUE4TPje/ProdView.asp?a=0&s=0&cc=01&g=780&id=detailed_info&i=127SNI1

Thats what I could find. I dont know much about noise suppressors, I jsut ran monster cable type wire in mine and it cleared it all up.

Just keepin' ya bumped up.
Beaux, this is awesome advise :cool: I printed all of this off and gunna bring it home for the troubleshooting. I kind of like the noise in a way, it sounds like I have a blower on the car at low speeds :cool:
 

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Craig,
First thing... take off the alternator belt and start the engine. If the noise is gone, then you know it is from the charging system and can proceed accordingly.
If the noise is still there with the alternator not turning, then you need to look at your ignition system. Nobody else asked what type of plug wires you are running ?? The solid wires play heck with anything electronic. You need to have resistor wires or the spiral wound ones. Resistor plugs probably would not hurt either.
Like the others already stated...check all your grounds. Make sure they are perfect connections. Also, any power connections should be soldered, not just crimped. Any type of bad connection acts like an antenna and can pick up stray electrical noise.
Thats a few things for starters,
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the advise Bill, I hear a steady whine other than a crackle from plug wires so it may be just the charging system. I run stock type 7mm GM bought wires so I would imagine they are resistors.

This noise just started when the amp was installed, with just the deck it is quiet. Might be in the grounding as everyone has suggested. I will try taking off the alt belt as you suggest.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, distracting day at work today
 

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I also think using a relay for the power supply is a good idea. It can isolate the effects of other devices that go through the ignition system.
A good ground is also PARAMOUNT.

Several years ago I won a few IASCA sound off competitions with only a 100 Watt system. I went against 1400 watt systems and blew their doors off routinely. Clean sound is better than just loud. Use components that are designed to work together, not just work. Stereo systems can be very difficult to configure, but don't have to be.
BTW, I hit a record high of 134db with just 100 watts. Not sure what the record is now.
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Thor, make sure that yout RCA's are located as far as possible from any power including a remote turn on. Most times noise can be isolated to bad RCA's and connections or weak grounds. In some cases your amp is just amplifying the noise already there. Take your time you'll find it without having to resort to ground loop isolators, relays or filters. I used to compete and install for a living way back in the day, heck I even owned my own custom audio company at one time, I still do it on the side.
BTW ThorSS70, hows that 288/296 working out for you taken it to the track yet??? I'm still curious about how much it'll pick you up.

Dan, competing at 100 watts huh? I remember running 2 HCCA 225 Orion amps down to .5 ohms a side. As long as you kept them cool and your wiring in series and parallel. You could run as many subs or passive mids and highs on them you wanted and still come in under the advertised 101 watt class, but we know the truth huh? Those old HCCA's were true <ahem>"cheater" amps Lol.
Loud, clean and low thats the ticket.
 

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Craig,

Another way to isolate if you're getting the whine on your RCA leads or the power leads is to unplug your RCA leads with the system turned on (not loud!). If the noise goes away with the music, it's probablly coming in via the RCA lines. If still there, it's your power leads picking it up.

My Bonneville picks up a lot of noise on the RCA cables. Tried rerouting them, etc, no dice. Had to get filters that go between the RCA cable end and the amps to kill the noise. Also, make sure you use a quality RCA cable, they DO make a difference.
 

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Originally posted by GN_Geoff:
Dan, competing at 100 watts huh? ...
Yep. I was running 2 50 watt Platinum series Ulysses amps by Hi-Fonics. AWESOME amps with increadible sig/noise ratio. I had the subs at 1 Ohm mono, and ran the rest of the speakers down at about 1.2 per channel. People were amazed at how well it sounded and then when I showed them the amps they usually got really big eyes and dropped jaws. One guy I knew spent well over $2500 on Hart speakers to try and get "good" sound. He sat on my truck once and nearly cried when I told him that was double what I had into my entire system. I had 2 12" free air subs right behind the bucket seats in a custom box that was actually in the bed of the truck. The subs were mounted in the cab, but we cut 10" holes through the rear wall and put the magnets through into the box. We sealed the holes together with a wicked flexible gasket sort of like what goes between the rear window and a camper shell. For the day, it was cutting edge. I wouldn't even think of doing it today; I'm not that interested in car audio. My Chevelle still has the AM radio!
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Hey i got to get in on this one..... there is one easy and quick way to reduce noise.... drop the gains on your amp to the lowest setting, if you have other processors, do the same. raise the volume control to about three quarters volume.. start raiseing the gain til you hear audible clipping then back it off just a bit.I know this sounds simple but it is real quick for establishing gain structure. beyond that, i would upgrade the battery ground as well.4 gauge works for most applications. For inducted noise I like twisted pair interconnect. the smaller the better. no silly foil or mesh shielding either. If you want to know why I'll just say one of my old jobs was working for MTX in R and D. loved the job ,hated the boss...I got lots more ideas for you, but if these dont help, you have equipment problems. ;)

jay bacon
70 L34
63.5 galaxie.1-600 expert IASCA and usac. featured in june 96 car audio magazine. (also sadly missing in action as of last friday) :(
 

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Discussion Starter #15
WOW you guys, thanks a bunch for the leads...no pun intended


Dan, paron my ignorance, where do I get a relay (Radio Shack) and what is it? I do know what a relay is generally but for stereos I am lost. I will be back on this Sunday, yesterday I had a long day at work and after I got off it was raining so I threw in the towel. Again, the ground is a small guage wire right off of the amp to the body of the car. I will have to double check my deck ground, if that makes a difference.

Jeff, funny you say keep the rca's away from the remote wire. I think I zip tied them together
Again, I am learning.
The new cam, every time I try to get to the track it rains :mad: Doing a direct compairison to my old setup will be irrelevant because I also bumped my compression to 10.75 from 9 and went from a 2000 stall on the TH400 to a 3200 lockup stall on a 200-4R. Everything else the same. It has hopes of running 11.90's hooked up according to a few that have ridden in it. Time will tell, and I will definitely be on here posting timeslips after the fact :cool: I just need to buy my own tires, full throttle is like driving on ice low speeds under 30.

Sid, great suggestion, and easy too
I will try that trick first thing and see if it works.

Jay, the gain on the amp right now is about 75% on both sides. Funny thing, maybe it is just my ear, but most of the noise seems to be coming from the front dash speakers. I have not tried to isolate it by fading between front and rear yet, I will do that Sunday AM and see where that takes it.

Recapping on my set up, I have a Kenwood CD deck in my glovebox with 2 channel RCA jacks on the back. I ran RCA's out the back to 'splitters' for the 4 channel signal on the amp. I then ran a 10guage power wire to the horn relay power side and ran the ground to the body about 6" long small guage wire. A small guage wire is ran with the RCA's to the remote wire on the amp. The speakers are 6x9 standards in the back with 4" oval under my stock stereo dash. Nothin fancy, it sounds OK with the engine off, but even low music volume the whine is very noticable through the speakers even with my loud engine.
 

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Hey man, What i meant by three quarters volume was the head unit..... the amp gains should be as low as possible without clipping output.... so the radio should have to be turned up to the almost top of its range and the amp as low as youget them and still be loud enough for you...If you want to go a step further. I'll bust loose with the hardcore stuff. let me know how the easy stuff works O.K.

jay bacon
 

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I only suggested using a relay for the amp power because many times, people do not properly connect an amp, and it leads to things like noise. That control wire NEEDS to be connected to the control output on your head unit. (I've seen plenty of folks just hook it up to switched +12VDC). The main power for the amp needs to come straight from the battery to avoid any problems with other circuits. Adding a proper fuse is a good idea.
You would essentially wire a relay into the amp circuit just like for your headlights, but you'd have to use the control wire to enable the relay AND the amp.
NEVER run audio signals and power/ground wiring(even the control wire) together. I try to never even cross them if possible. Use the largest diameter wire possible for power and ground to the amp. Use proper wiring techniques for all connections and solder whenever possible instead of crimping with "el cheapo" pliers and connectors. Use shrink wrap over all connections as well. Be sure to clean away any flux residue before applying the shrink wrap, or it can/will cause corrosion to the wire, thus increasing resistance and decreasing system performance.
Four more things that should go without saying...
1-Never use chassis ground as the return circuit for the negative terminal on your speaker or amp.
(Don't laugh, I've seen it.)

2-Maintain polarity of all speaker wiring at all times.
3-Solder and protect the wiring to the speaker terminals to avoid shorts or having to remove the speakers and reconnect the wires later.
4-Use grommets when penetrating any surface that might chaffe (sp?) the wiring.

Oh yeah, make sure the head unit is well grounded also.

It is also possible that your ignition wires (from the cap to the spark plugs) could be adding to the problem. I've seen this as well, but not likely the case if they are fairly new.
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You said a small gauge 6" long wire for the amp ground. You should have a heavy wire for the amp ground. The ground is more important than the power wire.

I would not put a relay in the main power wire from the battery to the amp. It is not necessary and your typical relay is not rated for nearly enough current. If you have run a heavy gage fused wire from the battery to the amp that's all you need.

It may be possible that moving the power lead from the horn relay right to the battery can help. All the electrical current goes through the horn relay which means all the electrical noise also. Basically, only the charging current goes to the battery and the battery itself acts like a noise filter.

Peter
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Originally posted by dan_cobb:

1-Never use chassis ground as the return circuit for the negative terminal on your speaker or amp.
(Don't laugh, I've seen it.)
Reading this makes me nervous. I do have the negative post from the amp go right to the body of the car, do I need to run this right to the batt or a more suitable ground like a full run back to the batt?

I went out today and bought a huge power wire noise filter hopong that this would help my problem. It has 2 wires in and out, one for power and one for the ground both 10 guage. I will change my ground to a 10 guage wire in place of the 18 guage I have now.

Again, you guys are giving me awesome advise and I am reading every word. Will be doing to install of the noise filter in the AM, will post my results. Again, very much thanks for the info guys.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Just installed the noise filter, and all background interference is gone :cool: :cool:

I still do want to make the stereo sound nicer, and with more definition so I may be hitting you guys up for more advise.

A big thanks for everyone who replied I can't thank you enough
 
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