I had a B+M Holeshot 2400 converter, very good around town. I didnt have to use a lot of pedal to get the car rolling. I installed an external cooler just to be on the safe side. I had no heat issues.
stall converter
How will a mild 2400 stall effect normal city driving? Lots of stop and go at very slow speeds. Is there going to be a heat problem? Must I have a cooler? Will I feel a slip or jolt upon a slow casual acceleration from a stop in town? I don't know spit about these things!Thanks
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My 2400 B&M Holeshot flashes to 2800,and I barely even notice its there,unless I really whack the gas.No slippage at slow speeds either.
Been running it for 3 years now,and 10K plus miles,with no cooler.Tranny fluid has been blood red,and I've never serviced it.
If it was 10" convertor,I'd use a cooler or at least a deep tranny pan.
Been running it for 3 years now,and 10K plus miles,with no cooler.Tranny fluid has been blood red,and I've never serviced it.
If it was 10" convertor,I'd use a cooler or at least a deep tranny pan.
I run a tight 10" converter behind a big block. It is actually a bit lazy until you get into it. Mine is set up for a 2800 - 3000 stall, but you can punch it and get it to about 3200. You have to be particular when talking converters. My car will basically not move until about 2400. So when you say 2400, do you mean lock up at 2400 or start to move at 2400?
I don't know? I was told I needed a 2400 but don't really know the diff? Can you give a brief overview? It sounds like mr4speed and cmt454 have about what I am looking for?! 
Anybody out there tonite?
We are all here, just drunk.
Ok, all broke and crying because Christmas present money takes away from car money.
Laughing yet?
Ha!
Torque converters can be a mystery. In fact, I'm convinced that they can even be a mystery to the folks who build them.
They react to torque...hence the name. The more torque in the range of stall, the higher the stall.
The same converter will stall differently behind a SB than it will with a BB.
I had great luck with an 11" B&M Holeshot as a driver and a race converter. Drives pretty normal....behind a 454. I finally broke it after abusing it for 5 years, and went to a 10". Again a B&M Holeshot.....actually when I bought mine (I've owned 2) it was called a Super Holeshot. Great part, but pretty slippery for normal driving.
The stall speed BTW does not indicate the RPM required to get the car moving. It's an estimate by the manufacturer as to what RPM you might get with your foot hard on the brakes and the gas on the floor. Most cars don't have good enough brakes to hold a car to it's true stall speed.
Go for an 11", get a quality unit and you will be happy.
Ron
Ok, all broke and crying because Christmas present money takes away from car money.
Laughing yet?
Ha!
Torque converters can be a mystery. In fact, I'm convinced that they can even be a mystery to the folks who build them.
They react to torque...hence the name. The more torque in the range of stall, the higher the stall.
The same converter will stall differently behind a SB than it will with a BB.
I had great luck with an 11" B&M Holeshot as a driver and a race converter. Drives pretty normal....behind a 454. I finally broke it after abusing it for 5 years, and went to a 10". Again a B&M Holeshot.....actually when I bought mine (I've owned 2) it was called a Super Holeshot. Great part, but pretty slippery for normal driving.
The stall speed BTW does not indicate the RPM required to get the car moving. It's an estimate by the manufacturer as to what RPM you might get with your foot hard on the brakes and the gas on the floor. Most cars don't have good enough brakes to hold a car to it's true stall speed.
Go for an 11", get a quality unit and you will be happy.
Ron
Thanks Ron -Merry Christmas!
If you're car doesnt move til 2400, its alot more stall than you think or its shot. Mine is 3500 and moves like it was a stock converter,get heavy on the throttle and rpm's come up a bit more. I can only footbrake mine to maybe 2200 before it starts pushing thru the brakes.
I run a custom built 10 in. 3k stall in my Camaro and it will flash around 34-3500 but around town driving it is fine. It holds the car at a stop light and will start to move under 1500 rpm with light gas pedal.Originally posted by GRN69CHV:
I run a tight 10" converter behind a big block. It is actually a bit lazy until you get into it. Mine is set up for a 2800 - 3000 stall, but you can punch it and get it to about 3200. You have to be particular when talking converters. My car will basically not move until about 2400. So when you say 2400, do you mean lock up at 2400 or start to move at 2400?
First. I should qualify a couple of things.
The 10 unit I have was originally a TCI Streetfight - listed as a 3500 unit. I had it freshened up and tightened to a 3000 unit.
What is a "light gas pedal"? In my 31 years of driving I have yet to master the art of control of my size 13 EE right foot! Maybe that's the real problem.
The 10 unit I have was originally a TCI Streetfight - listed as a 3500 unit. I had it freshened up and tightened to a 3000 unit.
What is a "light gas pedal"? In my 31 years of driving I have yet to master the art of control of my size 13 EE right foot!
Maybe that's the real problem.what do you mean by stall? thats when the engine will stall? or the tranny acts like it is slipping until that RPM (or thereabout), and then grab and go? i always get confused when people talk about converters.
thanks
aaron
thanks
aaron
Stall is defined as when the converter locks up. The car will not be required to be revved to 2400 rpms in gear before it starts to move. Also keep in mind you have a few type of stall....true stall (what the manufacturer rates the converter to stall at..which can be found on your particular set up if you have a trans brake), brake stall (how high it goes before the brakes let go-not an effective way to find out stall speed) and flash stall (stomping the pedal from a dead stop and seeing how high the engine revs in gear...providing you have traction).
Here's a clip from badasscars.com:
Here's a clip from badasscars.com:
Basically "stall" means when the torque converter "locks-up" under a load. With that, if you take a car with a 2,500RPM stall converter and you hold your foot on the brake hard, and hit the gas at the same time, (as if you were going to power brake), the "general" RPM in which the tires will break loose is at "about" 2,500RPM. If the converter was a 3,500RPM stall, then it would be at approximately that RPM in which it forces the tires to break loose. Keep in mind, if you put that same converter behind a nasty big block, in a car that has serious traction or is quite heavy, the torque of the engine will drive the stall speed up to a higher RPM, and an engine with less power will have the opposite effect and won't be able to stall the converter out as high. It's all relative to torque, vehicle weight and rear gearing. It isn't an exact science as far as an exact stall RPM goes.
Stock cars have anywhere from 1,000 to 1,400 RPM stalls from the factory. The reason a stall converter works is simple; an engine at 1,200 RPM is only making about 80 or so horsepower (on average), but at 2,500 RPM it could be making 150 to 200HP, and obviously trying to get a car moving using 150-200HP is going to be much better than one trying to launch at 80HP or so. Most performance engines don't make power until 3,000 or so RPM, hence why when you have a higher horsepower engine with a big cam, you need a higher stall speed so the engine is in it's "power band" when taking-off from the line, other wise it will fall on its face and be a turd off the line.
Some people believe that "stall" means the car won't start moving until the engine reaches that particular RPM, and that isn't even close to being true. We build race cars with 6,000+ RPM stall converters and when you put the car in gear and let it idle, it WILL roll along at 5 - 10 MPH, just like any other car will when put in gear and with the brake off. In fact, we usually cruise through the pits with the car simply in gear and idling, so if a 6,000RPM converter means that the car won't start moving UNTIL that RPM, then we'd have to have the engine wound-out to that RPM to put along through the pits at 10-15 MPH, and that simply isn't the case. Stall means that when the car is on the starting line, (with say a 4,500RPM stall converter), and the trans brake is on, (which locks the transmission in first and reverse at the same time), and you hit full throttle, the engine will wind-up to 4,500RPM with the car just sitting there, so when you slip your finger off the trans brake button and the tranny engages out of reverse, the car instantly launches at 4,500 RPM, and a race motor at 4,500RPM is pretty much at it's peak torque curve when leaving the line, hence the big wheelies you see on some drag cars or the incredibly low 60 Ft. times when traction is good. Race engines make no power at low RPM's, and are usually shy on torque, so the nastier the engine, the higher the stall speed needs to be (in general anyway). Again, cubic inches, torque, vehicle weight and gear ratio have a big factor in this.
A 6,000RPM converter behind a stock engine might not even get to 6,000RPM because the engine can't make enough torque (or power) to spool-up to that RPM because of the load of the converter. The car will start rolling at a much lower RPM and may never be able to reach 6,000RPM. This is also true for any converter from about 3,000RPM on up. Most mild race cars (9-10 second quarter mile times) use anywhere from 3,000 stalls to 4,500 stall speeds on average. Faster cars usually use even higher stall speeds, especially in smaller cubic inch engines that don't make the torque if big displacement engines. Also, the higher the stall speed, the more heat the converter will make, from hydraulic (fluid) friction inside the converter. A high stall converter can easily make enough heat to fry a transmission if you hold it on the line long enough at full RPM if the stall speed is above 3,500RPM or so, so a good tranny cooler is essential when running ANY type of high stall converter.
One common misconception about stall speed is that it's when the converter locks up - it doesn't ever lock up unless it's a lock-up converter. If the converter locked up at the stall speed, your tranny input shaft would go directly to the crankshaft speed. It's not called 'lock-up' speed, it's called 'stall' speed. It's when the engine stalls, or fails to gain rpm when pushed against the converter. The same converter will stall the engine at different speeds when used in different situations.Originally posted by BowtieAaron:
what do you mean by stall? thats when the engine will stall? or the tranny acts like it is slipping until that RPM (or thereabout), and then grab and go? i always get confused when people talk about converters.
thanks
aaron
Stock cars have anywhere from 1,000 to 1,400 RPM stalls from the factory. The reason a stall converter works is simple; an engine at 1,200 RPM is only making about 80 or so horsepower (on average), but at 2,500 RPM it could be making 150 to 200HP, and obviously trying to get a car moving using 150-200HP is going to be much better than one trying to launch at 80HP or so. Most performance engines don't make power until 3,000 or so RPM, hence why when you have a higher horsepower engine with a big cam, you need a higher stall speed so the engine is in it's "power band" when taking-off from the line, other wise it will fall on its face and be a turd off the line.
This paragraph is somewhat misleading. If I make 80 hp at 1200 rpm, my engine is producing 350#ft of torque. If I make 165 hp at 2500 rpm, I will be making the same 350#ft of torque. Since the car will accelerate based on the applied torque, the acceleration at 1200 rpm will be about the same as that at 2500 rpm.
thanks for the replys guys. its still hairy to me, but their is still alot to learn, ill get it one day.
thanks again.
aaron
thanks again.
aaron
I had a 2500 put in my new th350 and I don't even notice it until I put my foot into it. It's hard to explain but I can feel a difference.
Just dont think about it too much when you are trying to digest all this converter stuff, cause you might make things a little hard on yourself. Most engine and drivetrain mods are a little predictable. You dont need to be a genius to have a real good idea of how a particular camshaft will effect your particular setup. However, torque converters are different in the sense that reguardless of how much you know about em, you really cant predict how they will act for sure behind your motor just based on the little bit of info the manufacturer gives.
The others have explained it pretty well. The same converter can act a lot different depending on the engine its behind, no matter what converter it is and who makes it. If you ever drive a stock 4 cylinder vega, the converter seems to stall at about 1500rpm when you romp it. However, take the converter out and put it behind a chevy 350. Now that same converter usually stalls at 3000rpm or more. Thats cause the additional torque pushes the same converter harder, so that same converter acts differently. As a matter of fact, most of the time when you look at a torque converter it wont be rated with just one number. It will say something like "this converter will stall at 2800-3200rpm behind the average small block chevy, not for use with big blocks". That tells you right there that the manufacturer cant make you a completely accurate guarantee, because they dont know how "average" your average small block is, unless you get on the phone with them and give them all of your info. In the case of that 2800-3200 converter, you can kinda expect that this converter will stall somewhere around 2800rpm in a street bound 327, and it will stall closer to 3200 behind a torque heavy 383.
Another thing, your motor makes more or less torque depending on how hard you depress the gas pedal. If you have a better understanding why one converter can act different behind two different motors, than you can also understand that the same converter will act different in your car under different situations (light throttle, when compared to heavy throttle for example). At light throttle, the engine doesnt make as much torque, so your converter wont stall as high. Thats why many of these guys say that during regular driving, you can hardly tell there is a higher stall converter in there. But, when you put full throttle to it, engine torque increases and the converter will stall higher. Its kinda like a slipping clutch. Maybe the clutch is burnt up, or maybe its just adjusted wrong. Either way, if youve driven a stick car with a slipping clutch, youve probably noticed that the problem is more evident depending on how hard you are running the car. Thats not the most perfect example, but it helps to visualize how any converter reacts to torque.
The others have explained it pretty well. The same converter can act a lot different depending on the engine its behind, no matter what converter it is and who makes it. If you ever drive a stock 4 cylinder vega, the converter seems to stall at about 1500rpm when you romp it. However, take the converter out and put it behind a chevy 350. Now that same converter usually stalls at 3000rpm or more. Thats cause the additional torque pushes the same converter harder, so that same converter acts differently. As a matter of fact, most of the time when you look at a torque converter it wont be rated with just one number. It will say something like "this converter will stall at 2800-3200rpm behind the average small block chevy, not for use with big blocks". That tells you right there that the manufacturer cant make you a completely accurate guarantee, because they dont know how "average" your average small block is, unless you get on the phone with them and give them all of your info. In the case of that 2800-3200 converter, you can kinda expect that this converter will stall somewhere around 2800rpm in a street bound 327, and it will stall closer to 3200 behind a torque heavy 383.
Another thing, your motor makes more or less torque depending on how hard you depress the gas pedal. If you have a better understanding why one converter can act different behind two different motors, than you can also understand that the same converter will act different in your car under different situations (light throttle, when compared to heavy throttle for example). At light throttle, the engine doesnt make as much torque, so your converter wont stall as high. Thats why many of these guys say that during regular driving, you can hardly tell there is a higher stall converter in there. But, when you put full throttle to it, engine torque increases and the converter will stall higher. Its kinda like a slipping clutch. Maybe the clutch is burnt up, or maybe its just adjusted wrong. Either way, if youve driven a stick car with a slipping clutch, youve probably noticed that the problem is more evident depending on how hard you are running the car. Thats not the most perfect example, but it helps to visualize how any converter reacts to torque.
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