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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I see thousands of "new" vehicles sitting around without whatever microchips they need to sell them. I'm hearing 4th quarter or possibly 1st quarter of next year before they start seeing a steady supply of chips.

What's your opinion about the future of buying a 1+ year old new car? 2022's will be coming out soon I guess..... even though there are thousands already built. Maybe they are sold already?

Just curious what others think.
 

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I don't buy new cars, but I can imagine the car makers are gonna end up with a lot of overstock when the next year models come out. There'll probably be some bargains to be had, once they get their chips.
 

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I bought a leftover 2020 and got 5k+ off.... I'm good with it if I can save money. I also don't part with my cars or trade them in. I run them until it's not feasible to fix them anymore.
 

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I bought a left over 2018 in late 2019, got $6000 off.
 

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When my wife bought here 2011 Silverado she got over 11K off the truck as I knew when the hold back money would come in from GM, it happens every year. It's nice to have friends who are higher up in the food chain at a dealer.
 

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It's a long, expensive process to build a chip fab plant and the margin is low (meaning you have to build a huge one and sell by the train car if you want to make any money). It's the same deal with little parts like capacitors (which might actually be the problem).

It doesn't help that the fab process for chips is real short-lived.. they have to keep scrapping their equipment and starting over to stay competitive.

The market will eventually react, but it'll take a long time for them to even decide to add capacity. Nobody wants to invest a billion dollars in what turns out to be a bubble.

As for cars.. I know my wife just ordered a new 2021 4Runner, which can be kinda hard to get. She specifically wanted the 2021 because she likes this year's special edition color. The downside is, she doesn't get to pick it up for another month or so.. they're just now loading it on the boat.
 

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My question about automotive computers and their CPU microchips is . . . .

When will good enough be good enough?

How much faster does anything need to be?

I can see other areas of technology such as 256 bit encryption for Internet networks to need faster digital signal processing but I'm at a loss as to why a car or a truck needs absolutely cutting edge computing.

I guess I'm some kind of a Luddite.

Rick

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Because they keep bloating the software.

If they would hire good embedded programmers and show some restraint and common sense in their programming, the chips they have are fast enough.

But, the amount of bloat being shoved in because they want to cut budgets and use "off the shelf" software developed elsewhere for everything instead of investing in good embedded programmers means they just throw more hardware at it instead of being more efficient in the software.

My question about automotive computers and their CPU microchips is . . . .

When will good enough be good enough?

How much faster does anything need to be?

I can see other areas of technology such as 256 bit encryption for Internet networks to need faster digital signal processing but I'm at a loss as to why a car or a truck needs absolutely cutting edge computing.

I guess I'm some kind of a Luddite.

Rick

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Its not the speed of the "chips", its simply availability! It's not like they can pick some other "processor". First, it could require a significant redesign, but, anything else would also not be available. All production demand is already completely allocated. The automakers simply failed at planning ahead, as did many other industries because they are solely focused on SHAREHOLDER VALUE MAXIMIZATION! Having a warehouse where you keep extra inventory is counter to SVM. Not producing product, even when it will be incomplete/defective/obsolete is counter to SVM. It's a stupid way of running things, but this is what letting the bean counters dictate things has done.

And it's anything made on silicon - so capacitors, resistors, or transistors (etc) are not part of the issue.
 

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If I understand, the GM chips are for Displacement on Demand. Trucks are being sold without them, trucks didn't used to be part of the CAFE standards!!
 

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My question about automotive computers and their CPU microchips is . . . .

When will good enough be good enough?

How much faster does anything need to be?

I can see other areas of technology such as 256 bit encryption for Internet networks to need faster digital signal processing but I'm at a loss as to why a car or a truck needs absolutely cutting edge computing.
That's probably the kind of thinking the BIG 10 use that caused problems like door locks locking drivers out of their cars and plenty of other PCM/BCM maladies over the years.As long as it lasts 3/36 who gives a crap is most likely their kind of thinking.
 

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Displacement on demand, auto start/stop, wireless batter charger, etc.... are whats being targeted from GM. Non-essential creature comforts that don't sell trucks anyway.
They just extended layoffs until August 2nd for all of 2nd shift at my plant. They've already be laid off for two months.
It's a fluid situation. No telling what the future will hold.
I'm ready for it.👊
 

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I was thinking more in terms of making the chips more rugged and robust rather than adding to their computing capabilities.

You should see the standards that we have to achieve to qualify a military aircraft system - mil standard 810G.

Shock, vibe, temperature, explosive atmosphere, salt fog, creeping fungus, etc.

Sure, an automobile does not need all of this but could certainly use some of it for better longevity. And for pennies of extra cost when spead over many thousands of produced microchips.

Rick



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you know how finding certain older parts become a problem for older cars,machines etc? what's going to keep the new cars running when certain chips fry in 10 years? will there be a retrofit replacement chip?
And as a wise crack conspiracy theorist, maybe they can't get enough chips because they're all being stuck in the covid vaccine and injected into everyone. (in case someone didn't read the first part....I meant it as a joke). jim
 

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you know how finding certain older parts become a problem for older cars,machines etc? what's going to keep the new cars running when certain chips fry in 10 years? will there be a retrofit replacement chip?
And as a wise crack conspiracy theorist, maybe they can't get enough chips because they're all being stuck in the covid vaccine and injected into everyone. (in case someone didn't read the first part....I meant it as a joke). jim
I am already seeing this with my almost 10 year old Fusion. The Sync system is now antiquated and the only fix if it breaks is a "upgrade". My 2005 Excursion is fine with all of its electronics but many parts are discontinued now. Try finding parts for a 2005 AWD Vibe, thank goodness I can get Toyota parts and the pick and pulls get some in every so often.
 
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maybe they can't get enough chips because they're all being stuck in the covid vaccine and injected into everyone.
My arm has a nickel size magnet permanently attached to the vaccination penetration site after I brushed by my fridge. This happened the same day that lightening demolished the George Floyd mural.
 

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I agree with vehicles being over engineered.There is way to much crap going on inside a vehicle that your going from point a to point b. Self parking, self driving, self diagnosing ,its gotten to a point of foolishness that the customer has to fix when it breaks,Time to get back to ultra reliability and comfort and forget about rear seat reminder alerts.Some safety systems i totally agree with but lets not loose facts of the driving expierence and less distrations from onboard fluff.
 

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Being a Ford service advisor, I agree with Marcrose completely. Either trade before the warranty runs out, or get and extended warranty and trade before it runs out. You do NOT want to pay out of pocket for what some of this stuff costs. I had an out of warranty F-250 the other day, steering wheel was 45 degrees off center and a collision avoidance warning on the dash... needed a steering wheel because the two little motors under the airbag were bad. The steering wheel was $2,800!!! Add a couple hours labor for r&r and the obligatory programming that everything now requires, and It was right at $3,500. And the warranty was expired. GM and Chrysler are no better.
 
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