Chevelles.com banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a '68 that I'm converting to int. reg. I know how to handle the conversion. Which alternator should I buy, regular or single-wire? Also, which amperage should I get? I am considering an electric fan, but not 4 sure. What happens if alt. amperage is too high? (My first question is the most important. Comparisons, horror stories, etc. are appreciated)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
I am trying to figure out the same thing. John refered me to the top of the page where it says "search" I did one yesturday on "alternators" and found a lot of helpful info that was disscussed on previous forums. From what I have found, many people are unhappy with the one wire setup but most are satisfied with the internal Voltage regulator. As far as what size, I am also still looking. From what I have seen, if you get one that puts out more amps than you need it is ok but I don't know that for sure. I believe that if you go to a battery/alternator rebuild shop in your area they can test your current charging system and make recomendations. Hope this helps, let us know what you decide, It seems to be a hot issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,762 Posts
Yeah seems to be a popular topic lately. Some of this is only my opinion. The amperage of an alternator is basically what it is capable of putting out if the demand is there. Do I need to put a 100 amp alternator in my stock non A/C 72? Not really. The one is came with is enough. Will a 100 amp work? Sure, but it doesn't gain me anything. One-wires are nice alternators, though the idiot lights don't work with them. They are a quick way to convert from an external regulated alternator to a higher output alternator without much hassle. Some guys have had problems with certain brands. Others have had good luck. Personally I perfer to stick with the stock internal alternators. The biggest reason is my cars never stop working in front of the house on a warm day. Always miles from the house. I can always find a replacement part if I stick with the Delcos and they are cheaper. Yesterday, on the way to work, lost or broke a bolt on the SSM lift bars. Bolts I have but the bushing sleeve disappeared. Tied up the arm and crab walked the car home. Saturday they are coming out and back to GM bars (boxed this time). At least with original stuff I can find replacements.
To answer the question of how big to go, try it this way without all that Ohm's law stuff. Don't think George had a car anyway.
On the alternator case there is a number stamped. Should have an "A" after it, like 63A. That's what GM figured your car needed (63 amps) and if it worked for over 30 years I guess they were right. You want to add an electric fan that needs 35 amps. GM didn't figure that so the least you need is 98 (100) amps for your alternator. Same holds true is you add a huge radio (numbers on the radio), although you can cheat a little because you took out a small one. Hope I answered the question somewhere in here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Well, I'm still undecided about the # of wires(as is everyone else), but my second question was KINDA answered. I'll probably need an alternator higher than 63 amps but under 100 w/o an electric fan(big radio & I've added some electric accessories), & over 100 w/ an electric fan. I have idiot lights that I'm gonna convert to gauges, from Amp gauge to voltmeter(will also add tach). After studying the wiring diagram on my '68, I've figured out a no-brainer method to wire up a single-wire alternator, but it involves removing some tape. I haven't studied a wiring diagram w/ an internal regulator, so I'm still a little cloudy as to wire up a two-three wire alt. The reason is that the ignition switch seems to get its power from the Alt./reg. wiring. I THINK that the big wire goes to the battery, and the blue wire from the reg. runs to the horn relay(key buzzer), then to the ignition switch from there. The other terminal from the reg. (brown wire) is for idiot light/amp gauge. Someone please tell me if I'm right or not 4 the two-three alt. wiring.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,645 Posts
There is a Tech reference artical about using the CS series Delco(105 amp). Do a search for CS series alternator and you should find a wealth of info. I use the CS Delco and have no problems.

------------------
ACES member# 5093
Elcaminos are special!
I'd rather walk around with a Chevrolet hubcap in my hand than drive a Ford

Ole Paint
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,762 Posts
Like James said, there's a lot of information out there. See if this helps a little bit.

"I'll probably need an alternator higher than 63 amps but under 100 w/o an electric fan(big radio & I've added some electric accessories), & over 100 w/ an electric fan."

That's pretty much the idea. The existing alternator doesn't mind adding small stuff, just the large item.


"I haven't studied a wiring diagram w/ an internal regulator, so I'm still a little cloudy as to wire up a two-three wire alt"

Then use Wes's external to internal wiring information. Everyone else does. http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref14.html


"The reason is that the ignition switch seems to get its power from the Alt./reg. wiring."

Ignition switch gets its power from the fuseblock. Fuseblock gets its power from the alternator/battery.

"I THINK that the big wire goes to the battery, and the blue wire from the reg. runs to the horn relay(key buzzer), then to the ignition switch from there"

Horn relay is just a terminal for the big red wires. Someplace to screw them down to. Check out Wes's article. Make the conversion a lot easier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John_Muha:
Ignition switch gets its power from the fuseblock. Fuseblock gets its power from the alternator/battery.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought that the fuseblock was just that-a fuse block. After studying a BOOK on automotive wiring, It seems that the ignition switch gets its power from the alt./battery AND/OR the starter solenoid. I don't have a nuetral safety switch, so that leaves the alt./battery connection.
According to my wiring diagram, the big red alt. wire splices into 3 seperate wires, one to the ext. volt reg.(not needed), one to the battery, and one to the ignition switch. The big red wire has to run through the horn relay THEN to the ign. switch so the key buzzer will work. A wire from the ign. switch runs to the headlight switch, and it is from these two switches that the main power distribution comes from. headlight switch handles basically every light in the car, and the ignition switch handles the motor & "accessories"(basically everything in the car OTHER then the lights. This would take care of pretty much every wire in the fuse box, If that's what you're trying to say. As far as the alternators are concerned, I assume that on single-wire's the int. reg. is powered by the alt. so there is no need to run another wire (blue wire in Wes' conversion page) to the reg. from the ignition switch. I'm still undecided on the # of wires, but I think it's safe to say I can handle the wiring of either type of alt. I have these alt. questions. Where can I find the CS130 alternator that Wes keeps talking about? The two aftermarket alternators in my Jeg's/Summit book I want are either (summit) a Magnum powdercoated single-wire 80amp , or (jeg's) East Coast Auto Electric single-wire 110 amp. As I said earlier, the CS130 & East Coast alts. are 4 the electric fan, depend on which is cheaper in price & the # of wires I want. For now, the Magnum alt. is my default decision. Unless someone has had bad experiences with these alt.s & can convince me otherwise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,762 Posts
I hope you don't regard this as an argument. Only meant to be a discussion and just trying to clarify things (I should be working). The book that is best to look at is the 68 Chevelle assembly manual. It contains both the schematics and the wire routing information. Available through the site sponsor, Ground Up. You can get a schematic by itself from a couple of other sources. It's cheaper, but maybe not as good in this case.

"I thought that the fuseblock was just that-a fuse block."

It is. It fuses or protects all items on the interior of the car.

"After studying a BOOK on automotive wiring, It seems that the ignition switch gets its power from the alt./battery AND/OR the starter solenoid."

Gets its power, on your car, from the fuseblock. It provides power to the starter/solenoid when you turn the key to start.

"I don't have a nuetral safety switch, so that leaves the alt./battery connection."

The neutral safety switch goes between the ignition switch and the solenoid. Even if someone put in a remote Ford solenoid, it still goes to the solenoid. The car originally came with one. This is a public forum and the whole world can read this. The car should have all safety features installed and in working order.

"According to my wiring diagram, the big red alt. wire splices into 3 seperate wires, one to the ext. volt reg.(not needed), one to the battery, and one to the ignition switch."

Not to the ignition switch. On all these cars it runs into the bulkhead connector behind the fuse block and then to the ignition switch. What color wire are you seeing to the ignition switch?

"The big red wire has to run through the horn relay THEN to the ign. switch so the key buzzer will work."

It runs TO the horn relay not THROUGH it. It's just a great place to join wires together. Since the relay needs power to blow the horn, GM joined the wires together there and saved a buck on a junction block.

"A wire from the ign. switch runs to the headlight switch, and it is from these two switches that the main power distribution comes from. headlight switch handles basically every light in the car"

Can you turn on your headlights without the ignition switch on? How about the glove box and dome lights. They don't need either.

"and the ignition switch handles the motor & "accessories"(basically everything in the car OTHER then the lights. This would take care of pretty much every wire in the fuse box, If that's what you're trying to say."

Close. How about the cigarette lighter for example. Is that an accessory?

"far as the alternators are concerned, I assume that on single-wire's the int. reg. is powered by the alt. so there is no need to run another wire (blue wire in Wes' conversion page) to the reg. from the ignition switch."

True you don't need the blue & brown wire on a one-wire. If I read you right I think you are saying that the blue/brown wire powers the regulator. The regulator only acts as a switch. The blue/brown leads are excitation lines to help start the alternator. The alternator does not really need the blue wire once it starts so the regulator switches it out. Peter F can explain power generation better that I. More of his background.

"Where can I find the CS130 alternator that Wes keeps talking about?"

The CS130 is a stock alternator. Believe Wes got his from Autozone, but there are several other places. If read his article before and I'm sure he mentions what type of car you need to tell the parts counter guy you "have". Good luck whatever route you go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
557 Posts
Go to Checker (or whatever CSK auto chain is in your area), and ask for a 95-amp Chevy alternator. I don't remember what part number it was exactly, but I can find out if you'd like. It is an older SI-style case, but I believe it is CS internally because of the high output. I put this in my car last week because it has 6 and 12 o'clock mounting positions and didn't require any new brackets. Plus, it only cost $87 and they took my old, EXTERNALLY regulated alternator as a core. And the warning light still works and I now have a lifetime replacement warranty to boot. Very cool :)

Good luck,
Ryan


------------------
Arizona State University Student
Mechanical Engineering

1970 El Camino
Upgrading on a student budget - Jealous of those with cash!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John_Muha:
I hope you don't regard this as an argument. Only meant to be a discussion and just trying to clarify things (I should be working). The book that is best to look at is the 68 Chevelle assembly manual. Can you turn on your headlights with the ignition on?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that is what forums are for, DISCUSSIONS. A DEBATE, like Rectangle vs. Oval port BBC heads, or 9-inch vs. 12-bolt, is an ARGUMENT. I'm only 17 & I just got my wiring diagram last week, so I'm not exactly the MASTER when it comes to chevelle wiring. Thanks to your "discussions", I now know that I need to go buy a nuetral safety switch. Where does that switch go? The original shifter/transmission in my car is long gone, but we're putting in an M-21 Muncie. I'm not gonna buy the assembly manual, but I'm gonna buy the FACTORY SERVICE manual since I need the torque specs 4 the suspension components. If I can't turn on the headlights when the switch is on, then there's no risk in leaving my lights on. Since NONE of the harnesses in my car are in good shape(about half of wires frayed & cut) & I don't want to deal with any "very high resistance" problems when the car is done. New harnesses are $100+ a piece. So, I'm gonna buy a soldering iron, shrink wrap and a $250 12-circuit painless wiring harness & do my own wiring based on the diagram. The fuses are easier to remove from Painless' fuse box & I can reuse all the original bulb sockets, senders, switches, etc. I've decided to get an electric fan. I was considering putting a "puller" fan on one side of the radiator & a "pusher" on the other, but I'm afraid that both fans on both sides would be beneficial only at idle, since those two fans might "cancel each other out" during normal driving. I'd have to check radiator clearance, also. I'll probably end up with one fan. So I've narrowed my alt. choice down to two, CS130 & East Coast. CS is two-wire & East Coast is one. I'll probably make my choice based on price, but is there anything else I need to know about single-wire vs. two-wire alternators?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Almost forgot. East coast alt. cost $200 from Jeg's. Is there any "visual" way to tell apart CS & SI alternators?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,094 Posts
Check this alternator site. Has pictures and lots of general info. http://www.alternatorparts.com/
(edit) If you are going to rewire the forward harness I would increase the size of the charging wire to the battery from the alt. The original 10G wire is designed for 65A. The 100A should be 8g. Just my thought. Have not seen this mentioned in these conversion talks but something I would do.

Rene
66_Malibu

[This message has been edited by shooter (edited 02-21-2002).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Thanks, everybody. Shooter's reply answered my last questions. Moderator can reply is he wants too since I still don't know where the nuetral safety switch goes, among other things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,762 Posts
Moderator has a name and since you know how to search for information on heads, the information for safety switches can also be found. Your last two posts could have lost their attitude. I see I wasted my time trying to answer your questions and help you. Truly, good luck on your wiring project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
John Muha, I know that being the moderator of this board is your job and you were just trying to help. There is a fine line between a discussion and an argument. ALL YOUR POSTS as a whole were beneficial to me, not just the nuetral safety switch(I guess the n. switch is on the cylinder heads. If not, I'll ask around). I understand the typing in ALL CAPS is the same thing as shouting online. I don't know UBB codes for italics or bold. I tend to be a smartass sometimes. However, I try to curb those tendencies as much as possible on these message boards. In fact, two years ago, when I was a FULL TIME SMARTASS, I left a post in the message board that was specific to chevelle years('68 in my case). I was trying to answer people's questions, but I had a very bad attitude. I recieved A LOT OF HATE MAIL from other chevelle members(a female member cussed me out in an email the day after). If you could do me a favor, I'd appreciate it if you could find a way to delete that message. I posted this message cuz I like to have the last laugh. There is no need to respond.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,762 Posts
If your car was originally built as an automatic, you will find the neutral safety switch connector located above the steering column. If you want to learn about bold type or other BB functions, try either the Test Drive or Bug Hunt forums. Either Steve or Matt will help. Wouldn't worry about a 2 year old post. Chances are it doen't exist anymore. Know what you mean about the emails. I just ignore them. Again, good luck with your car.
John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
EVERYBODY likes to have the last laugh. This time, I don't care. I almost forgot about the single-wire vs. multiple wire debate, just so that others could read my post. Here's what I dug up: When it come to pure wiring, and you hate wiring cars, single-wire is the way to go(the one wire goes str8 to the battery). I don't have to worry about this problem since I'm wiring my car from scratch. However, if you are more concerned about alternator vs. alternator performance, it DOES NOT start charging your vehicle until a certain RPM. This isn't all that good for the street. The CS130 alternators spin ALL THE TIME, but aren't single-wire. One reg. wire runs to the ign. switch, I don't know what the other terminal is for, so it would be harder to wire. If you have a street car & like to sit around with your car idling & rev it all day(teenagers like me do this ALL THE TIME, just to show off their cars. I'd rather rev then spin my tires since burnouts are illegal in GA) the CS130 is a better choice. But like Wes says, it needs serpentine pulleys(which I am considering buying). The alternator should probably be grounded no matter what. There is a special post 4 that, not sure what it is or if it is needed on a single-wire. When it comes to engine detailing, I have a manual transmission BBC w/ no AC. A lack of hoses & wires make the engine compartment look very "neat" and uncluttered. I'm running my wires/hoses behind the inner fender & will probably use a ford-type solenoid mounted to the core support to help clean up the wiring (only one wire running to the starter). Here is the start of my questions: I'm buying an optima battery to eliminate battery corrosion. Can one side post and one top post be used at the same time? Since I have a manual trans, a nuetral safety switch is more important & I am not sure if it mounts INSIDE the interior or OUTSIDE. (Last question) can a voltmeter be wired to the other reg. terminal?

[This message has been edited by Tanatra (edited 02-24-2002).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,762 Posts
"Here is the start of my questions: I'm buying an optima battery to eliminate battery corrosion. Can one side post and one top post be used at the same time?"

You can use a negative side post cable and a positive top post cable (or vice versa) if the battery has both connections.

"Since I have a manual trans, a nuetral safety switch is more important & I am not sure if it mounts INSIDE the interior or OUTSIDE."

You mentioned during one of your later posts that you had a manual. Don't believe the 68's had a safety feature on them. The clutch engage safety switch wasn't put on until 69. This feature was outside on the engine. A neutral saart switch could also be off the manual trans linkage.

"(Last question) can a voltmeter be wired to the other reg. terminal?"

A true voltmeter could also be wired off the interior wiring such. Easier than running the wires all the way back to the front.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
423 Posts
I've tried to stay in the background here but have to say that Tantra is incorrect on my saying that you have to run a serpentine belt with the CS130. What is true is that the alternator comes with the pulley for a serpentine belt and it has to be replaced. It's an easy swap!

------------------
Wes. Vann
Technical Reference section
Gold Member #5
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top