[chrisstandring]

I have seen two schools of thought regarding piston installation: 1. dunk the piston in a can of oil and 2. install dry(ish). In the past I have always used method 1 and not had a problem. But I have recently heard that too much oil in the ring grooves will result in it baking there once the engine is running and therefore one should be more sparing with the oil when putting pistons in. What would be the best way?

 

[aukai]

I have heard the later also, another reason may be the excess oil hinders initial ring seating.

 

[RB69SS396Conv]

I've never "heard" that other thing. Sounds rather ridiculous though. Especially with modern high-quality oil. OTOH, seems to me like gravity would take care of that within a few seconds even if it were possible for it to be a problem.

That said, I don't "dunk", but for other reasons. Mostly because it turns the engine into a dripping, slimy mess, and of course, puts lots of oil inside the cylinder, on the top of the piston, where it does no good at all and only fouls plugs and makes the motor smoke heavily on initial startup. I "dunk" the rings, but merely smear the ring lands lightly.

BTW I use either 2-stroke oil or outboard motor oil for that, whichever I have handy, to avoid the "ash" problem in the cylinder.

 

[bracketchev1221]

I only coat the skirt and rings. But I agree like was already said, the oil would run off and be in the pan by the time it was started.

 

[bzack]

I'm no expert but I coated the cylinder walls with oil and put in the piston dry with dry rings. Engine seems to work fine.

 

[engineguy]

"Dunking" the piston is messy and unnecessary. I use a squirt can, put oil into the ring grooves, then a film of oil on the rings before installing them on the pistons. Apply a generous coat of oil to the cylinder walls and the piston skirts, smearing the oil on the surfaces with clean hands.

 

[Scotch]

Clean all the oil out of the cylinders and off the pistons and use this stuff: http://www.jegs.com/i/Total Seal/90...dvanced&OVADID=9772738521&OVKWID=107512528521

It works great and there's no mess or fouled plugs. I didn't want to believe it, but now I've seen so many top notch engine builders use it, I had to try it myself. Now I'm a believer too. I'll never oil a piston again. This stuff is like magic.

 

[Tom Mobley]

rings seat on the ring land just like they seat on the cylinder wall. This is the reason I don't use a lot of oil in the rings assembling the engine. I also realized that good running engines I've torn down didn't have any liquid oil in the compression ring grooves. So, oil on the skirts and cylinder walls. I use a 50-50 mix of oil and assembly lube, this is a good place to use that red liquid stuff.

 

[sschevellefan]

I oil the cylinder wall and the skirts. I do put some oil on my finger and wipe it around the rings but not much. Been doing it that way for a while and no issues so far.

 

[chrisstandring]

Thanks for that guys.

 

[engineguy]

Clean all the oil out of the cylinders and off the pistons and use this stuff: http://www.jegs.com/i/Total Seal/90...u can fix a crappy hone job (to some extent).

 

[Scotch]

I don't think you would want to use this stuff in the ring grooves and the lateral surfaces of the rings. You do need plenty of lubrication at start-up to gaurd agains the rings micro-welding themselved to the ring grooves. The dry powder probably does help seat the rings in the cylinders, but the old-timers just use Bon Ami powdered cleanser - which you can get quite inexpensively at the grocery store. Pour the stuff down the carburetor after initial start up and you can fix a crappy hone job (to some extent).

Since it's made by Total Seal (the guys who design rings) I think I'll listen to their advice about where to use this stuff. It's not a cleanser designed for cleaning the sink, it's a powdered lubricant designed to properly seat piston rings. I've used it in several engines with nothing but good results, and I learned about it from pro engine builders who hold several World Records. That says a lot to me.

 

[steelcomp]

If your cylinders have the proper finish, and are as clean as they can possibly be, then with today'sw moly rings, you can assemble an engine almost dry. ON my last three builds (two 850+ hp blower builds and an 820 hp NA build) I used the Total Seal quick seal, and nothing else, but I'm very critical about cylinder finish and cleanliness. Pistons and rings went in clean and dry. The two blower engines used JE Moly rings, and the NA engine used Total Seals. Two of the engines were dynoed and showed immediate break in. The third engine (closer to 900hp) is only a couple hours old, but following the same success. The 820 hp NA engine just finished it's third drag season in a 9 sec. boat with a Championship, and no signs of slowing down.

 

[Guest]

OK!!

What is the stuff? Teflon powder?

pdq67

Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

 

[BB68]

ok!!

What is the stuff? Teflon powder?

Pdq67

ajax

 

[steelcomp]

OK!!

What is the stuff? Teflon powder?

pdq67

I think it's mostly graphite. At least, that's what it acts like.

 

[oldtimr]

I use Childs & Albert Assembly oil on rings and cylinders. Just a little. And on the wristpin too. Goes a helluva long way, I've done 3 or 4 good engines on one bottle and it's over half still. Real light, clean oil.

Old average engines I just pour some out of a quart of Valvoline with a grease bottle squirt cap on it on the rings and wipe some in the cyl. with my hand.

 

[Guest]

"real light clean oil", that sounds like 100 percent pure "neat" Soy BioDiesel!!

Years ago, I was in a cast-iron foundry that was so frigging DIRTY around the Cupola and the holder, there was like 6" of "kisch", (if I have the name right??), on everything and I wish to this day that I would have brought back a gallon milk jug of the stuff!!

For those that don't know what I am talking about, kisch is flake graphite that come's out of super-heated cast-iron upon cooling like snow flakes in the air b/c it is super saturated w/ pure graphitic carbon.

Great lube when added into oils and greases!!

pdq67

Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

 

[JJ'65]

"real light clean oil", that sounds like 100 percent pure "neat" Soy BioDiesel!!

Years ago, I was in a cast-iron foundry that was so frigging DIRTY around the Cupola and the holder, there was like 6" of "kisch", (if I have the name right??), on everything and I wish to this day that I would have brought back a gallon milk jug of the stuff!!

For those that don't know what I am talking about, kisch is flake graphite that come's out of super-heated cast-iron upon cooling like snow flakes in the air b/c it is super saturated w/ pure graphitic carbon.

Great lube when added into oils and greases!!

pdq67

Maybe that was the stuff they put in the ARCO oil with graphite back in the 60's (or was it 70's?) Didn't last long on the market as I recall...

 

[engineguy]

I certainly would not recommend that anyone assemble an engine with "dry" cylinder walls. The rings and pistons need a certain amount of oil to survive - that is the reason for having a crosshatch pattern on the cylinder walls. Firing up an engine without proper lubrication is a sure recipe for trouble.

I doubt that the Total Seal stuff is teflon, as that would hinder the proper break-in of the rings. As stated before, I would imagine that it is the same consistancy of Bon Ami or Ajax. (small sharp granules of powder that will cause some scuffing between the cylinder and the ring face. this will remove high spots in the rings and the cylinders therby allowing the rings to have proper contact with the cylinders) Still not a good alternative to having your cylinders properly honed and using good quality rings - in my opinion.