[76scirocco]

I just got back my 69 El Camino. We found a guy who works on the side, and gave him the car in pretty bad shape a year ago. He originally quoted us 5K to strip, straighten/fix body issues, primer/paint and "rhino line" the bed. Done by December. We agreed.

After a few weeks, he upped the quote to 6500. Again, we agreed. He replaced a rear quarter panel(supplied by us), got the car down to metal, all trim removed, primered it, repainted the engine compartment, applied undercoating to the wheel wells, painted the interior/jams, etc. A lot of work.

Well, after a year, we just got the car back. And it looks great, but in the paint, in a few areas, there are some imperfections. Should I make him fix those? He said that he do whatever we wanted if we weren't happy with the paint job.

We had a slight disagreement over the "deadline" for the car. We wanted it for a local show over the weekend, knowing even not finished(trim), it would still look very nice. But he was two days late, mainly because his upholstery guy applied too much overspray when applying the vinyl top, and he had to rebuff the car out.

So, how picky does one become? I noticed that when I really, really examine show cars, I can usually find some imperfections in the paint. I'll try and get some pictures of what I consider the imperfections, but I'm going to show a few before and after pictures

 

[vic2tric]

You paid for a good paint job, you both agreed on the price even after he had to adjust it. If he says he's willing to fix anything then have him fix it. Two days late doesn't seem like a bad thing compared to many other peoples experiences.

I'll ask you one question.. I don't know what you do for a living but would it be ok with the people who hire you to do a job and it wasn't right and you knew there were issues?

 

[eyewanta65]

NOTHING is perfect. You will pick your car apart more than anyone else will. I can find something on any car. Overall it may not look better if you address minor issues. You may even make more problems. My car has it's share of flaws, yet almost every show I get compliments of how it's one of the best paint jobs there. You should shoot for perfection, but understand that there is no such thing.

 

[Keith Tedford]

I know a guy who does really big dollar restorations on rare cars. He says that he has yet to see a perfect paint job.....even at that level. We have over $10,500 tied up in the body and paint work in our el Camino. That's with us supplying new fenders and hood. It was a very solid truck to boot. Even at that price it wasn't perfect either. Just the thought of bodyshops turns me off of ever wanting to do another car.

 

[Nefarious]

Just the thought of bodyshops turns me off of ever wanting to do another car.

I'm a bodyman, not a real proud one, but I am not sure how to take that statement. Out of curiosity, why? Is it because of the prices? Or the time frame? Help me out.

 

[chevellefreek]

just like scott said their is no such thing as a perfect paint job i just learned that recently my self. but if your not happy with it let him fix it. just keep that in mind

 

[daveo1]

I always used to say.....its 55.00 an hour till your happy! Glad I dont do that crap anymore! You do get what you pay for.

 

[Jesse66Original]

I agree there is no such animal that I know of, mine is nice but not perfect, it is one tough thankless job to do body work for a living during the day and face it again at night. Mine was gone from home for six months, however the painter and myself are still friends so I believe that says it all.

Jesse

 

[1badss396]

I think you answer your own question: He said that he do whatever we wanted if we weren't happy with the paint job. :yes:

 

[baddbob71]

Is it the tailgate and door alignment you're not happy with?

 

[76scirocco]

Thanks for the response. The things I was unhappy with was being promised first with December, and then every week a two month later deadline. Cash flow was another thing. I thought I was very patient with him, and everything he asked for we did. Being done two days late, was really disappointing, after being promised multiple finish dates. I really emphasized how important that final date was.

As for the paint, there are a couple of minor imperfections, little specks that probably can be wet sanded and buffed out. He told me that he wanted to buff it one more time once we received all the clips and trim that we had to order.

I do believe that I became friends with our body/painter. I only had seen some of his work, which was very good for someone working out of his garage. And the amount of work he did on the El Camino was unbelievable, if I had done it it would still be getting stripped, so hats off to him.

I want to thank everyone for their response, especially the ones who stated that there's no perfect paint job. I think that I expected that,or near perfection. Then when you see minor flaws, your head gets a going, or at least mine does.

 

[72 malibu]

I'm a bodyman, not a real proud one, but I am not sure how to take that statement. Out of curiosity, why? Is it because of the prices? Or the time frame? Help me out.

No need not to proud of what you do! YOU SHOULD BE!

 

[Jimmy P]

An overall paint job including bodywork, and putting an absolute time frame on the project is one of the most misconceived, misconstrued, and misinterpreted contract between an a car owner and shop owner ever concieved by mankind. Kind of like trying to nail jello to a wall.

Even though I have an actual degree in Auto Body & piant, I am not a professional body and paint guy, but I have done profesional quality body & paint for thirty years, sometimes for profit. Most of the people who come to me have been previously scorched by an incompetent or a victimizer posing as an expert. Sometimes folks can detect skullduggery before they plop down the cold hard cash. Some just accept whatever they get and complain after the fact, happy to just get thier car back from 'Autobody Jail'. Some people get lucky and some know who will do them justice and get what they pay for. Research
before you pay anyone anything!

I've seen $5000 jobs that Maaco could have shamed, full of dirt, waves and the texture of a Florida orange. I've also seen $5000 paint jobs by reputable shops look REALLY good! $6500 isn't a whole lot of money, but if he said he would fix dirt spots and do some further sanding and buffing, take him up on it. And, always remember, you catch more bees with honey than vinegar.

 

[wookie]

An overall paint job including bodywork, and putting an absolute time frame on the project is one of the most misconceived, misconstrued, and misinterpreted contract between an a car owner and shop owner ever concieved by mankind. Kind of like trying to nail jello to a wall.

Even though I have an actual degree in Auto Body & piant, I am not a professional body and paint guy, but I have done profesional quality body & paint for thirty years, sometimes for profit. Most of the people who come to me have been previously scorched by an incompetent or a victimizer posing as an expert. Sometimes folks can detect skullduggery before they plop down the cold hard cash. Some just accept whatever they get and complain after the fact, happy to just get thier car back from 'Autobody Jail'. Some people get lucky and some know who will do them justice and get what they pay for. Research
before you pay anyone anything!

I've seen $5000 jobs that Maaco could have shamed, full of dirt, waves and the texture of a Florida orange. I've also seen $5000 paint jobs by reputable shops look REALLY good! $6500 isn't a whole lot of money, but if he said he would fix dirt spots and do some further sanding and buffing, take him up on it. And, always remember, you catch more bees with honey than vinegar.

Well said. I am almost tempted to get out of paint and just focus on race car builds. Applying paint to a car is NOT an exact science. There are a ton of variables in the body and paint environment that make it a physical impossiblility to put out a "Perfect" job. I have seen concourse restoration jobs that look like crap. BIG $$$$ paint that has issues. I have watched Jon Kosmoski of House of Kolor spray paint, and the cut and buff guys are there to finish the job for him.

I have talked to a lot of painters over the years, and all of us agree that the average consumer expects a mirror finish on a piece of material that the factory couldn't even get perfect. Look at a BRAND NEW car at a light beside you. There is HUGE orange peel in the paint, hazing in a lot of colors, and other flaws in BRAND NEW stuff. And the average Joe wants better that that, on a time frame, for a little bit of no money.

Figuring the money it takes to run a shop, we shop owners make very little money at all. I only build cars because I love cars. I could have done MANY other things if I wanted to get rich. THIS would not be my first choice. Consumers have no idea the stuff we painters have to deal with with whining, crabby car owners. You all are a pain in the rear sometimes!!! Very few understand the work it takes to make a panel perfectly lazer straight, and apply paint to it and have it flawless. The ones who do "get it" are the worst ones. NONE of my customers can do this work themselves, or they wouldn't be bringing me a car in the first place. But they scream the loudest if there is ANYTHING out of place when I'm done. So I am very picky about who I do work for, and I have to spend a lot of time explaining what will be involved in the job.

Sorry for the rant. I just get annoyed reading about how rotten body and paint guys are and how we rip everyone off. Yet everyone is always calling us, being all nice, when they need a paint job......

What do you think of this? Would this make you happy? (Before you answer, know I did this in my driveway)

 

[1bad69+70camaro]

Well said. I am almost tempted to get out of paint and just focus on race car builds. Applying paint to a car is NOT an exact science. There are a ton of variables in the body and paint environment that make it a physical impossiblility to put out a "Perfect" job. I have seen concourse restoration jobs that look like crap. BIG $$$$ paint that has issues. I have watched Jon Kosmoski of House of Kolor spray paint, and the cut and buff guys are there to finish the job for him.

I have talked to a lot of painters over the years, and all of us agree that the average consumer expects a mirror finish on a piece of material that the factory couldn't even get perfect. Look at a BRAND NEW car at a light beside you. There is HUGE orange peel in the paint, hazing in a lot of colors, and other flaws in BRAND NEW stuff. And the average Joe wants better that that, on a time frame, for a little bit of no money.

Figuring the money it takes to run a shop, we shop owners make very little money at all. I only build cars because I love cars. I could have done MANY other things if I wanted to get rich. THIS would not be my first choice. Consumers have no idea the stuff we painters have to deal with with whining, crabby car owners. You all are a pain in the rear sometimes!!! Very few understand the work it takes to make a panel perfectly lazer straight, and apply paint to it and have it flawless. The ones who do "get it" are the worst ones. NONE of my customers can do this work themselves, or they wouldn't be bringing me a car in the first place. But they scream the loudest if there is ANYTHING out of place when I'm done. So I am very picky about who I do work for, and I have to spend a lot of time explaining what will be involved in the job.

Sorry for the rant. I just get annoyed reading about how rotten body and paint guys are and how we rip everyone off. Yet everyone is always calling us, being all nice, when they need a paint job......

What do you think of this? Would this make you happy? (Before you answer, know I did this in my driveway)

:yes:

 

[Clean Cut Creations]

The 2004 colorado seen above was built/painted in 2003 in a home garage by me. Maybe you have seen it before.
Here is a link to the build: http://www.cleancutcreations.com/old_gallery2.html

 

[allproautocollision]

Amen to the shop owners as I myself am one. Especially the shortage of good technicians. Good techs demand top pay just as you were top in your field in engineering, right? Why should we expect any less. You get paid for every hour your work in most of your fields and professions, yet when we want to get paid for every hour, the car owners look at us like we are crazy. I say for 6500.00 for what the car looks like now I would KISS that paint and body guy. Hell, let him fix what you do not like and then tip him a couple hundred afterwards and you will have a friend for life that will bend over backwards for you in the future. I can assure you of that.

 

[cromedss]

I used to be one of the crowd that thought anything over 5~7K for a paint job was crazy. This was until I decided to tackle it myself and now I have the utmost respect for these guys. If I were to quote for my own car after doing the work and still have a ways to go it would easily be 10~15K. This is not easy stuff although I am enjoying doing it.

 

[Jimmy P]

About ten years ago, a neighbor came to me with a 37 Dodge who's body was bent, rusted, rotted in some places and an overall nitemare. I told him I would work on it in my spare time and charge him $20 an hour. Might be about $3000 to finish it (in 1997 dollars). We aggreed on that.

After a few weeks, he asked me to finish and spray the fenders first, so he could get the upholstry to match it, as it was a two tone,so on so forth. No problem. I wasn't having fun with the rear panel below the trunk. It was swiss cheese and a compound curve.

Banged out at least two dozen dents on each of the four fenders, all the ridges in the floorboards, fixed some rust on the edges and sprayed them. Cut & buffed them and they looked great. The undersides were coated in bed liner to reduce the chance of stars and they were ready to bolt on. I called him to pick them up and he asked me what I owed him. I tallied it up and it was like $900 in labor so far. He freaked out!

I told him I had over 40 GOOD hours into them and we're not even talking materials! He said he wasn't going to pay me, even though I still had his car. I didn't get angry, but I was not in a good mood. He came to my door with 4 big guys and a wrecker to get his stuff. I gladly gave it all to him (like I was going to fight him or something???) He handed me a $100 bill and said he would bad mouth me till the day he died.

Well, low and behold about two years later, we see each other at a car show. I had my 69 Z-28 I just finished and he...... didn't have a car there. I never hold a grudge, so I strike up a conversation with him and ask him where his Dodge is. If his head was hanging any lower he'd have suffocated. He told me that he had the car at three different shops, the second shop found 2" of bondo in that rear panel I was fabricating for him.
He said the car was so screwed up, he had to take it to REAL restoration shop in Ocala. I asked how much they were charging. "$12,000!" he said. I asked, "they doing the fenders and floorboards over? "Nope, just the body". I never did see that car finished.

After that guy, I quit doing body & paint work for strangers for a long, long time. I didn't need the money or the greif (I have a 26 year professional carreer). I couldn't do paint for a living just because it kills me that someone isn't satisfied with work that's usually the best I can do. I'll do it for my self satisfaction. It seems that I'm very happy with my own finished products.

To those of you that choose to deal with those folks, my hat's off to you.

 

[Clean Cut Creations]

Jimmy P....I feel your pain! :boxing:
I have been in that exact position early in my restoration career. I have pushed a customer's half finished project outside and told him to keep the money he owed me just to get a badgering controling customer off of my back. I just chalked it up to experience and I made sure that the next guy would not screw me. This is the MAIN reason that our shop has a 6 page detailed contract for all work performed by us. It protects the customer AND our shop from and bad blood.