Team Chevelle banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part JULY's Ride of the Month Challenge!
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
477 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay Engine still getting hot more uphill but still 200 to 210 on level it used to not go over 180, Chevrolet 5.7L crate block with 305 heads not my build it came this way, okay here is what I checked, first thought head gasket as I removed all the water even used shop vac, replaced with distilled water and new pure green anti freeze, when I drain radiator as I replaced gauge contents is not as green as I would think it should be, it sloes more yellow colored or dirty, I checked the oil no foam or milky color, when I run car with cap off, I do see bubbles during the flow I have the thermostat removed as I thought is was that at first, still same issue, I noticed after sitting for 2 weeks as I travel for work, when I start I see water dripping under car at header gasket and pipe connection on to floor for couple minutes also from tail pipe. I removed all the plugs did compression test all cylinders 190 across the board, with thermo laser when hot check tank on radiator down flow champion 4 row temp 134 to 145 or so top and bottom tank, top of aluminum intake manifold area 220, head temp 230, next step tomorrow morning to remove manifold and check any blockage and or gasket issue there as I removed this in the past to change a valve spring that had broken, also have dual 1850 fans with aluminum shroud and new aluminum reverse flow long water pump, any other suggestions? maybe no correct fitting Edelbrock intake?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
477 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Okay removed Intake manifold there were a couple drops of antifreeze on top of oil, might have been from lifting intake off engine, okay questions the four corners of the block those are the water passages?
I see on the intake manifold underside that only the front 2 are open allowing water to pass, should all four corners be open to allow proper cooling to the heads? maybe incorrect edelbrock intake manifold
also notice the water passages seem to be brown color inside which would maybe be why the antifreeze is yellowed in color and if so what could cause this? I have taken photos as soon and will upload in short while
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,472 Posts
Can you post couple pics of your shroud and fan setup?
What are the timing specs for the engine?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
477 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Can you post couple pics of your shroud and fan setup?
What are the timing specs for the engine?
Begin Timing by ear, as no tape on balancer, here is s photo of what mine basically looks like, I removed the clutch fan setup I previously had as it has always been running hot since I installed the engine,
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,197 Posts
If the Top of your DF Rad is only 134/145 Degrees there is very little direct flow of the Hot 220* coolant going into the Rad

The Coolant from the Engine going into the Top of the DF Rad should be Hot like 180* to 200*
the Coolant coming out of the DF Rad at the Bottom should be at lest 10* cooler 170* to 190*

I do not like the Reverse Flow Water Pump and it could be the problem

Does the Intake Water passages lineup with the Block water passages
and do they work better for a Regular Flow Water Pump direction VS the Reverse Flow Water Pump direction

Any way you can take a pic of the Front/Grill side of the Rad
and better pic(s) of the Engine side of the Rad of the Sides & Bottom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
477 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
If the Top of your DF Rad is only 134/145 Degrees there is very little direct flow of the Hot 220* coolant going into the Rad

The Coolant from the Engine going into the Top of the DF Rad should be Hot like 180* to 200*
the Coolant coming out of the DF Rad at the Bottom should be at lest 10* cooler 170* to 190*

I do not like the Reverse Flow Water Pump and it could be the problem

Does the Intake Water passages lineup with the Block water passages
and do they work better for a Regular Flow Water Pump direction VS the Reverse Flow Water Pump direction

Any way you can take a pic of the Front/Grill side of the Rad
and better pic(s) of the Engine side of the Rad of the Sides & Bottom
I thought I had answered , no I have not tried Regular Water pump direction as I got it with this setup, but purchased new aluminum water pump but same reverse flow, in order for me to change I would have to change the setup. regarding the intake that one I will have to look at tomorrow when I get home, I have checked and found a different Intake that is supposed to be on that year motor, but I am already tired of throwing money into this engine, I will take pics of the front side etc tomorrow, currently has Vintage Air condenser in front, but I had overheating issues before I put this in, I tried new clutch fan, bought factory shroud, would not fit radiator then went with the dual fans for the champion radiator, I would have thought 4 row radiator would have stopped this no go,
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,034 Posts
135 degrees at radiator with no thermostate and 220-230 at engine is a lack of flow. Either a clogged radiator or a bad impeller on pump is where I would start.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
477 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Okay Finally home, here pictures of radiator and fans, also underside of intake, with picture of top of engine, to answer question on clogged radiator, not the case as I bought new and can see water flowing, water pump impeller, also not case as it also is only month old this was happening with other pump as well, also new one is aluminum, thinking of removing heads tomorrow morning, if I do, as I leaving again on Sunday, should I coat the cylinder walls, the car is in a closed garage, and I will be back again Friday
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,197 Posts
First off as I said in my # 5 Post
" If the Top of your DF Rad is only 134/145 Degrees there is very little direct flow
of the Hot 220* coolant going into the Rad
The Coolant from the Engine going into the Top of the DF Rad should be Hot like 180* to 200*
the Coolant coming out of the DF Rad at the Bottom should be at lest 10* cooler 170* to 190* ..... "

and as StevenS said in his # 7 Post
" 135 degrees at radiator with no thermostate and 220-230 at engine is a lack of flow.
Either a clogged radiator or a bad impeller on pump is where I would start. "

I also see the following based on your above pics;
- if that is a A/C unit in Front of the Rad it seems to be covering all of it
and therefore there is a Air Flow Restriction plus Hot Air from it
is going to make the Air flowing to the Rad warmer which will reduce the cooling of the Coolant in the Rad

- Efans can/do cool a 2 Row Tubed Cored Rad better than a 4 Row Tubed Core Rad
as you have put another air flow restriction for the Efans to pull air thru
the stock Mechanical setup would work better pulling air thru the 4 Row Rad and the A/C unit

- I am not a fan of Metal Shrouds and it does not have any Hwy Air Flow Flapps on it for more Air Flow on the Hwy

Here are Pics of my car's 2 Row Tubed Core Rad/Efan/Shroud setup that keeps my Engine running at 180*
on the Hwy with one or no Efan on and in city with 2 Efans on



Here is a Pic of the Front showing the Trans Cooler located down low for lots of UNrestricted Air Flow

 
  • Like
Reactions: -SS454- and StevenS

·
Registered
Joined
·
477 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
First off as I said in my # 5 Post
" If the Top of your DF Rad is only 134/145 Degrees there is very little direct flow
of the Hot 220* coolant going into the Rad
The Coolant from the Engine going into the Top of the DF Rad should be Hot like 180* to 200*
the Coolant coming out of the DF Rad at the Bottom should be at lest 10* cooler 170* to 190* ..... "

and as StevenS said in his # 7 Post
" 135 degrees at radiator with no thermostate and 220-230 at engine is a lack of flow.
Either a clogged radiator or a bad impeller on pump is where I would start. "

I also see the following based on your above pics;
- if that is a A/C unit in Front of the Rad it seems to be covering all of it
and therefore there is a Air Flow Restriction plus Hot Air from it
is going to make the Air flowing to the Rad warmer which will reduce the cooling of the Coolant in the Rad

- Efans can/do cool a 2 Row Tubed Cored Rad better than a 4 Row Tubed Core Rad
as you have put another air flow restriction for the Efans to pull air thru
the stock Mechanical setup would work better pulling air thru the 4 Row Rad and the A/C unit

- I am not a fan of Metal Shrouds and it does not have any Hwy Air Flow Flapps on it for more Air Flow on the Hwy

Here are Pics of my car's 2 Row Tubed Core Rad/Efan/Shroud setup that keeps my Engine running at 180*
on the Hwy with one or no Efan on and in city with 2 Efans on



Here is a Pic of the Front showing the Trans Cooler located down low for lots of UNrestricted Air Flow

All points taken but on #7 the reason I purchased this radiator with the original radiator same issue, all why I changed water pump also was getting hot before I installed the AC condenser in front, but as you mentioned probably less cooling now, but have no choice of where to put the condenser as it is always hot here anyway there will always be hot air entering front, so question is as I removed the intake, should I put new gasket and reinstall and perform cooling system testing further? I can have e the radiator checked
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,034 Posts
John

One thing I can add. My BB has no thermostat. Champion 2 large row radiator. With the car at idle and cap off it flows like a river and water will splash out the opening. Car runs too cool. How much flow do you see?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,255 Posts
think your reverse flow pump is the problem
once put a std rotation pump on a 5.0 mustang by mistake it had the exact same problems.
looks like v belt why cant you use std rotation? Know anyone with one you can borrow
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,034 Posts
Does your water pump turn clockwise or counter clockwise with your belt setup?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
477 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Does your water pump turn clockwise or counter clockwise with your belt setup?
counter, also question regarding gasket, on the head for the intake, it has 1 port I guess for cooling on each corner 4 for exhaust and 1 in middle, should the rear and the single in the middle be covered by gasket, or open, on the intake manifold it is closed on the end port, but not sure if this is the correct intake, as I have seen other with bypass open rear and front for water, as I am going to get gasket today to put intake back on, and the closest auto store here store is 45 minutes away
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,047 Posts
The water pump isn't reverse flow, but reverse rotation, same flow. The rear ports on the intake do not allow flow of the coolant!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,034 Posts
As Leo said. Your pump is not reverse cooling but reverse rotation. Make sure you have the right pump.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
477 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
John

One thing I can add. My BB has no thermostat. Champion 2 large row radiator. With the car at idle and cap off it flows like a river and water will splash out the opening. Car runs too cool. How much flow do you see?
same here when cap open no thermostat I see flow like river so being clogged is not the issue, and yes for the ones mentioning, I do understand that my water pump is reverse rotation but standard flow, currently putting everything back together and adjusting valves then timing to see if there is any difference, should be finished after dinner
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
477 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
yesterday finished putting back together, had to go get new plugs as 1 broke while instilling anyway today I tried it and still when going up hill temp went to 200, also took video of flow with cap off and car running, flow is strong, still can't get my thoughts off the heads being the issue, if I decided to look for set of used heads what would be the best iron heads for this at low cost as I am still leaning towards BB upgrade just want to take my time
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
A couple of thoughts/questions...

First, why no thermostat? Thermostat provides a slight restriction when open thus slowing down the flow through entire cooling system including obviously the radiator. There are recent theories to the contrary but might be worth testing this theory.

Secondly, is it "acting" hot (although 200-210 is not hot) or are you just going off the gauge? Is it blowing coolant past the cap into the recovery tank or detonating when "hot"?

And is it a mechanical or electric sender type of gauge? I once had a mismatched electric gauge set up (Auto Meter gauge with a Stewart Warner sender) and the reading was false.

Lastly, are you sure there is not any trapped air within the system? Good luck as I know how frustrating these deals can be!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,197 Posts
A couple of thoughts/questions...

First, why no thermostat? Thermostat provides a slight restriction when open thus slowing down the flow through entire cooling system including obviously the radiator. There are recent theories to the contrary but might be worth testing this theory.

Secondly, is it "acting" hot (although 200-210 is not hot) or are you just going off the gauge? Is it blowing coolant past the cap into the recovery tank or detonating when "hot"?

And is it a mechanical or electric sender type of gauge? I once had a mismatched electric gauge set up (Auto Meter gauge with a Stewart Warner sender) and the reading was false.

Lastly, are you sure there is not any trapped air within the system? Good luck as I know how frustrating these deals can be!
Bill why would you want to Restrict HOT Coolant from going into the Rad so it can be Cooled Down ?

The Flow of the Coolant is NOT slowed down, just less of it being Cooled down
as the Mechanical Water Pump turns and pulls the Coolant out of the Rad the same all the time,
dependant only on the Engine RPM !

If that/more Hot coolant stays in the Engine it just gets hotter !

The ONLY good reason for a Thermostat is to give us people up North
a warm vehicle to drive in in the Cold Winter Months . :D

How many Race only cars run a Thermostat !?

In the 80s my Street/daily driver 65 GTO did not have one in
and neither did some other guys / Racers ever have a Thermostat in the Engine .

The Street guys that did were always trying to cool down their cars after/before the next round !

The Idea Temp for a warmed up Engine just before you do your Burnout
and launch down the Track should be around 160*
so that after coming back on the return lane your Engine is around 180* .

I agree with/like your other thinking/thoughts ! :thumbsup:
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top