[onebad82z]

Never ran a gauge before so this is my first experience with watching oil temperature.

I run conventional Castrol GTX 10w-30 in my 355. All clearances were in spec during the build. Running a standard volume Moroso oil pump with a high pressure GM white spring. Moroso deep oil pan (6 quarts total system capacity) with a Canton windage screen and Moroso oil pan baffle. Napa Gold 1061 oil filter. No external cooling devices. Nothing wild about the motor, typical street toy. Solid lifter camshaft with EDM lifters. Oil pressure at hot cruise (oil temp=205, water temp=190) of 2500rpm is 53psi on the gauge.

Yesterday was the 1st time since I put new heads and cam in/on the motor that I took a long ride. Back and forth to work 25 each way with 8 hr cool down in between. Car ran OK overall, still needs carb tuning. Anyway. On the ride in it was cool out, say 65-70 tops. Car ran at 185-190 water temp and 200-205 oil temp. On the way home it was 85-90 and very humid. Car ran at 185-190 water temp again and the oil stayed right around 210. I jumped on it a few times while on the highway and the oil temp would quickly rise to 210-220. Once I let out and resumed normal cruising (75mph = 2500rpm) the oil temp would come right back down to 205-210.

Is this TOO hot for conventional on a regular basis? Not daily driven but driven regularly in hot (75-100 depending) summer months. Or is it time to look into a cooler setup?

 

[cstraub]

240 250, you want oil at water boiling temp, 212. Your in good shape John

 

[onebad82z]

Excellent, thanks Chris!

 

[rak1]

My truck runs between 204-210 acording to the display. My Softail runs at 235 without any problems so your fine.

 

[SWHEATON]

John.you'r oil temps are just fine.

BUT GET THAT DANG GTX 10-30 OIL OUT OF YOUR MOTOR THAT'S RUNNING A FLAT TAPPET SOLID CAM EVEN WITH EDM LIFTERS.

Havent you noticed all the chatter here in t/chevelle about zddp & oil when it comes to flat tappet cams?

ZDDP isnt the end all for successfully breaking in running a hi perf flat tappet cam, but it sure helps to run oil/oil additive with proper zddp lvl esp with perf cam running higher spring rates just like in your case.

If anyone told you that running edms will stop a flat tappet from going bad when running an oil like your gtx 10-30 that has very low zddp they are SADLY mistaken.

I have seen a few times where people running edms still had cams go flat when running oils with low zddp lvls.

The EDMS will help that's for sure but that oiol has 850-900ppm zddp when your hi perf flat teppet cam needs a min of 1300-1400ppm zddp for a longer normal service life.

If you want to run 10-30 run valvolines vr1 10-30 with 1400ppm zddp or chevrons delo 15w-40 with 1300ppm zddp.

Or buy some zddplus or cam shield to run with the 10-30 gtx that has low zddp.

Do nothing and even with edms you could still run into a problem down the road with a lobe going flat .

There could already be some damage and no oil or additive with proper zddp could help out if thats the case. But hopefully its not and running the EDM's that oil the cam/lifter interface much better could be a saving grace in this situation with running the low zddp oil with a flat tappet cam keeping wear to a minimum due to that better oiling.

But again, why take that chance when there are oils and additives avail these days with much better/proper zddp lvls to better protect your flat tappet cam?

Scott

 

[onebad82z]

Or buy some zddplus or cam shield to run with the 10-30 gtx that has low zddp.

Scott... buddy... easy there!

I appreciate the concern, but did you forget I am the one that had Cam-Shield tested? I run it without fail. 6 quarts of Castrol GTX 10w-30 with 3oz. Cam-Shield at every oil change. Cam broken in with Delo and EOS.

Honestly would love to go synthetic along with the Cam-Shield but I have seen more say not to ( than to) with a flat tappet... so dyno it is.

:beers:

 

[onebad82z]

My truck runs between 204-210 acording to the display. My Softail runs at 235 without any problems so your fine.

Like the data to back it up, thank you!:yes:

 

[SWHEATON]

Hi Jon,OPPS,sorry about that.

With the MANY emails i get daily & posts i respond to daily concerning oil (let alone responding to other non oil related posts too) over the past 2.5-3yrs here in team chevelle it's no wonder i plain forgot you were 1 of the many people that told me they were running the cam shield & that you had even tested the cam shield too,sorry about that .

Maybe its the CRS(cant remember s__t) creeping in after being on this earth 53+ yrs/LOL!!!!!

But you didn't mention you were running cam shield with the gtx oil along with edm's & flat tappet solid cam untill i warned you about the low zddp oil either unless in missed that too.

Anyway, i was just trying help you not trash a cam and or motor but it turns out you are already in the know being well covered with the EDM's & cam shield on top of that with your hi perf solid flat tappet cam setup.

BTW,your only running 3oz cam shield with 6qt oil which seems a little low. But i havent seen the camshield rec mix ratio on the label & or the test data in a while either. So maybe it's a lot more concentrated then i remember it being and .5 oz camshield per qt of oil with only 850-900ppm zddp does boost the zddp lvl from that low 900ppm to the 1300+ppm zddp your cam needs which is fine if thats the case .

HAPPY motoring

Scott

 

[onebad82z]

No problem Scott. I assumed that was the situation. And no I didn't state that I was using Cam-Shield. So I can see where the urgent suggestion came from. I appreciate it! Not many people care if others car run or blow. I can only imagine how many emails you get on just oil alone...

Right from Cam-Shields site on usage:

How Much Cam-shield™ to use?
Current API SM/ILSAC GF-4 gasoline engine oil from the major oil companies will be conforming to the industry Phosphorus limit of 800 parts per million (ppm) maximum, which means that the Zinc (from ZDDP) level will be approximately 850 ppm.
The Zinc (from ZDDP) concentration level in the finished oil (after adding Cam-shield™ premium ZDDP treatment) should be set to the minimum needed for the application. Any additional ZDDP above that minimum level will not be harmful. As a side benefit, ZDDP also imparts anti-oxidant performance to the oil. Unless a cam/lifter break-in is the order for the day, there is not much to be gained from going over 2000 ppm Zinc.

Select your favorite engine oil and your favorite viscosity grade that you have always used for your classic car or hot rod and then determine the type of operation that you will be putting the engine through. There are 3 choices here:

new cam break-in
normal operation
racing
Add enough Cam-shield™ premium ZDDP concentrate to get to the appropriate concentration for that application. Current API SM/ILSAC GF-4 oils will have approximately 850 ppm Zinc.

Minimum of 1200 to 1300 ppm Zinc for normal operation with moderate valve spring pressures (add ¼ ounce Cam-shield™ to each quart of engine oil)
Approximately 1600 ppm Zinc for normal operation of muscle cars (add ¼ ounce Cam-shield™ to each quart of engine oil)
Approximately 2000 ppm Zinc for racing (add ½ ounce Cam-shield™ to each quart of engine oil)
Approximately 2500 ppm Zinc for new cam/lifter break-in (add ½ ounce Cam-shield to each quart of engine oil, supplementing the cam lobe molybdenum break-in paste)
Cam-shield™ is the only product concentrated enough to allow you to treat for break-in or racing or normal operation. 1/4 ounce of Cam-shield™ per quart of engine oil adds 800 ppm Zinc, 1/2 ounce of Cam-shield™ per quart adds 1600 ppm Zinc.

 

[SWHEATON]

HI JON,thanks for posting that,that cam shield is indeep a concentrated formula for sure.

I feel it's one of the best or the best zddp additives out there,its designed/mfg'd by an oil engineer that's currently still working in the oil industry. He's also into motorsprots /racing /works on his race engines/etc and knows both ends on the deal.

I had mult emails back and forth with him when his product 1st came out and i was always impressed with his answers and his lvl of expertise too.

From what i remember the cam shield also showed good #'s when you had it tested too .

Have a good one.

Scott

 

[onebad82z]

HI JON,thanks for posting that,that cam shield is indeep a concentrated formula for sure.

I feel it's one of the best or the best zddp additives out there,its designed/mfg'd by an oil engineer that's currently still working in the oil industry. He's also into motorsprots /racing /works on his race engines/etc and knows both ends on the deal.

I had mult emails back and forth with him when his product 1st came out and i was always impressed with his answers and his lvl of expertise too.

From what i remember the cam shield also showed good #'s when you had it tested too .

Have a good one.

Scott

Straight from Tim @ Cam-Shield:

Typical ASTM D-5185 ICP analyticals for Cam-shield(TM):

Phosphorus 75,000 ppm

Zinc 88,000 ppm

Boron 8 ppm (small dispersant treat)

Silicon 25 ppm (small antifoam treat)

And the revised Blackstone Laboratories analysis reports from the sample I sent to them:

Phosphorus = 72,520 PPM

Zinc = 80,840 PPM

 

[trmnatr]

I have ran EOS during break in (in the past, roller now days) and ran Valvoline VR1 with no issues

Truth be known, The cam in the Camaro is an older cam and Johnson lifters from the 90's and when we installed it being its better materials we installed the cam with no break in period and the 1.46" valve springs , The cam still looks new well after 200 runs

I would not suggest this now days due to material changes and materials being out sourced but we did it many times - Now days we break them in with additve and VR1

 

[GRUMPYVETTE]

oil temps MUST at least occasionally exceed 215F for at least a few minutes to burn off acids and moisture that form when the engine sits over night, most oil starts to break down faster at temps over about 250F, synthetics tend to have a higher threashold at about 280F
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=296&p=539#p539

 

[onebad82z]

The cam in the Camaro is an older cam and Johnson lifters from the 90's and when we installed it being its better materials we installed the cam with no break in period and the 1.46" valve springs , The cam still looks new well after 200 runs

Yeah they are Johnson EDM's from Chris Straub.

oil temps MUST at least occasionally exceed 215F for at least a few minutes to burn off acids and moisture that form when the engine sits over night, most oil starts to break down faster at temps over about 250F, synthetics tend to have a higher threashold at about 280F

Interesting. Looks like I need to get on it a little more often to bring the temp up around 220 to make sure I am doing that as it does sit for days at a time.