Team Chevelle banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part May's Ride of the Month Challenge!

1 - 20 of 68 Posts

·
Registered
1970 Chevelle, MJ 467, 600hp/600tq, Moser 12 bolt M22Z muncie
Joined
·
738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone run up against this before? I’m planning on a 30 x 40 three bay shop with a lift. Went to go get a building permit and the city planner said I had to apply for a zoning variance because max size in my neighborhood 750sf. I already have a shop on the property, but it’s a smallish 650 sf, just under the limit, but I can’t put a car in it by way of design.

The variance involves sending notice to everyone within 300 ft of my property, putting an ad in the paper, posting notice in my yard, and presenting my case at a monthly zoning meeting. An abstract company will take care of everything but the meeting.

Already bought the building, have a concrete guy lined up, and notified the electric company about service.

Anyone ever get a zoning variance rejected?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,413 Posts
No but I sat on the council when they were rejected. Owners were not happy but they knew the rules beforehand. The problem with letting one person do this is everyone would say “well what’s his face built his shed”

Can you have multiple buildings on the property bun none bigger than 750sf?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,186 Posts
They told me that I had to have a need and since I had a 3 car already I really didn't have a need for more space. My planned space would have been violating the setback as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
Hi
I have had variations proposed by council
Over a certain floor size [footprint]
over a certain height
When the garage is within 2 ft of a fence there is a max limit on length

Its funny pay the money penalty to council and all is good

Yes I wish I had my hoist inside
Hoist bay minimum 13ft but if you want a wide set up hoist with room on either side min = 15 ft
11.5 ft minimum width for a bay without hoist
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
This is a relief. I thought the OP was saying his shop is too big.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
785 Posts
I sat on the zoning board for a coupe of years. The codes are in place to protect your neighbors. If you go by the letter of the law, you have to show good reason why they shouldn't apply to you. The reason cannot be something that is your own doing. In other words, that you didn't create your own hardship that now requires a variance. Having said that, the boards rarely follow the law. In most cases if you are respectful and can show that the building will not be an eyesore, the board will grant it unless one of those 300 ft neighbors voices concerns against you. If you can get the closest neighbor to come and support you, all the better.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
782 Posts
In my county (Hernando County, Florida), as long as you observe setbacks (15' on the sides, and 10' in the back), we can build up to 750 sq ft building with no permits/inspections.
 

·
Premium Member
1968 Malibu sport coupe, 489 ci. 590 hp 600 tq, RV T-400 Freakshow 3200 stall, 3.73 12 bolt posi
Joined
·
7,973 Posts
In '15 I wanted to put a metal 26' X 32' prefab bldg. up and they also said get a letter from 3-4 neighbors saying they don't mind, pay $400 non refundable to go in front of the variance committee BUT we haven't allowed it since 2007 :frown2: so I didn't bother since me and Catman next door don't talk. If I was in Unincorporated county I could do whatever I want as long as a permit is issued = $$$, Do you need to knock your existing bldg. down to get an approval ? or is this another added bldg.?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,982 Posts
Out here, the county had a rule that outbuildings couldn't be more square feet than the dwelling. I had a 720 (24x30) shop, and a 200 (10x20) shed. Our house is 2176. I was able to get a permit for a 1200 (24 x 50) garage, even though I live on 5 acres. I've heard that they've lifted that regulation, but I'm all done. I've thinned the herd down to 4 vehicles, so I've got the room for all of them............now, if the right El Camino came along............
When I saw the headline, I thought...........there's no such thing as too much garage..........
 

·
Registered
1970 Chevelle, MJ 467, 600hp/600tq, Moser 12 bolt M22Z muncie
Joined
·
738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the replies, guys. Glad everyone liked the title, LOL. I feel better about this now. Have talked in length with the city planner, he seems to think I won't have trouble as far as the city goes. Hopefully the neighbors will play nice.

I sure am glad I just idle through the 'hood with the Chevelle to keep the noise down. Been planning this thing for a while now, just as I get going, bam, corona virus. LOL, just my luck.


AlWhite00-My neighborhood has shops abound, some larger than the one I'm planning. Yes, I can have multiple bldgs., but no one bldg. can exceed 750sf without a variance.

Dansk-I asked the city planner about the hardship issue, but he told me don't worry about that, you don't have to prove hardship to the board. I have few neighbors within 300ft, I know the closest ones and they are alright with it. So far anyway.

Shovelrick-I don't need to knock down my existing shop, this will be a new construction.

Again, thanks.
 

·
Gold Founding Member
Joined
·
10,971 Posts
In my hometown, a residential property under 10,000 sq. ft can have 1000 sq ft of "outbuilding". A property greater than 10,000 sq. ft can have 1200 sq ft of "outbuilding". All "outbuildings" combined, so garage, gazebo, and crappy sheet-steel or plastic Home Depot "garden shed" all count toward the outbuilding limit. In addition to the "outbuilding" limit, there's also an "impermeable surface" limit: You have to have a certain amount of drainage available as a percentage of total square feet. So a gravel driveway is OK, a paver-block driveway might be, but a blacktop or concrete driveway may not be, depending on how much area it covers.

I paid the $80 variance fee asking for 1200 sq. ft., published in the paper, and appeared at the zoning committee meeting. One of my neighbors wrote in--this is an exact quote--"If he builds a bigger garage, he'll just store more stuff outside".

[Colonel Klink Voice] Request denied! [/Colonel Klink Voice]

Nobody told me I could appeal their decision to the City Council. I thought the Zoning Board decision was final.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,642 Posts
Do NOT proceed any further until you actually get a variance.

If you start a project and then lose the variance, you'll have to tear everything down. Period. At your expense.

One of my good friends and fellow forum members ran into a zoning nightmare several years ago. One of five township zoning board members lives on his street.......and no Quarter was given. Victory was not achieved.

Hopefully, you get the variance you need.

p.s. - did anyone mention whether or not you'd have to remove your current outbuilding as well? Many places have a limit that applies to the total property....not each building.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
751 Posts
Bought my 2.2 acres late 2018.
"New rules" limiting shop/barn to a percentage of property footage became active Dec. 2018.
Those limits would force me to go with a building that would be just too small.
Nearly all my neighbors have been here longer and have shop/barns FAR in excess of the "New" rule.
But!
One day I was visiting the planning department and the guy behind the counter mentioned that the limitation DOES NOT APPLY so long as the shop/barn connects to the house via a covered walk-way.
Not that I need or want the additional expense, but a covered walk-way is now the plan.
I would suggest the OP look for similar "Loop-holes".
 
  • Like
Reactions: LeoP

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1 Posts
I live on 2 acres which is now in the city. I had a metal building 30x60x12 high installed before we were annexed. After we were annexed (we kept the same zoning codes) I wanted to build a metal building 25x50x10. Because they were separate buildings the only way I could get a permit from the city was to receive an ok from the fire department, which they denied because I did not have a proper road for them to drive a fire truck to get to second building and be able to turn around. I could use the square foot measurement of my house to determine( including basement ) how big I could go. I was trying to make sure my set backs were all ok and stuff, but was denied. The way I got around this was combining the two buildings into one, kinda of a "T". The corner of new building is only about 6 feet from property line, but that was ok? Fire department was ok, just one building still. And I kept under my allowable square footage. So I now have one building 3050 square feet, full electricity (welders compressor, ect) car lift, cars, tools boxes, tractor, boat and full.:surprise:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
609 Posts
Well john here,s my two. Dont do anything . Its the same everywhere to one degree or another . One i hope you get along with all your neighbors. Two go before the board and pay what ever fees are required . Be nice if they wont aprove what you want ask them what will they ap[rove as you need more space still be nice . I know all about your plight and the effort involved to move the rock of gibraltar. You think its bad there look where i live . They wrote the book here for it all. Z-27
 

·
Registered
1970 Chevelle, MJ 467, 600hp/600tq, Moser 12 bolt M22Z muncie
Joined
·
738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
My variance application was approved today, so the city is satisfied with what I want. Now it goes to the abstract firm for the legal notices and what not, then to the city council meeting for the airing of grievances by the neighbors on the 18 of next month. I’m good with the neighbors I know, probably won’t have any trouble.
Thanks for the replies and suggestions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
898 Posts
In my hometown, a residential property under 10,000 sq. ft can have 1000 sq ft of "outbuilding". A property greater than 10,000 sq. ft can have 1200 sq ft of "outbuilding". All "outbuildings" combined, so garage, gazebo, and crappy sheet-steel or plastic Home Depot "garden shed" all count toward the outbuilding limit. In addition to the "outbuilding" limit, there's also an "impermeable surface" limit: You have to have a certain amount of drainage available as a percentage of total square feet. So a gravel driveway is OK, a paver-block driveway might be, but a blacktop or concrete driveway may not be, depending on how much area it covers.
I tried to have a garage built at my old house. i didnt sit on a ton of land, but other people had put garages in years past. I ran into "impervious surfaces" and "storm water management" like you did. I was going to have to do the variance thing as well, and i was told i should take a lawyer, and an engineer to the hearing. The zoning officer told me "i think this would fly", meaning my proposal for my garage basically drawn out the best i could on a computer. I think the number was about $12,000. Thats what it was going to cost just to find out if i could build a garage. Oh, and in my area it couldnt be bigger than 400 sq ft. Numbers of $50,000 rolled around for what it would cost in the end to build it, if i could, with the variance, then the impervious surfaces, and stormwater management.....about half of the 50K was to be spent before the garage could even be built.

In the end, it was cheaper to move, so i did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
537 Posts
Just went through something similar. Bought a new house. The house sits on 1 acre and I have a mortgage on it. The sale included the vacant 1 acre lot next door, outright for $1.00 The very original owners bought both acres, fenced it as one property and built the house on 1 of the acres (but put the well on the other acre! hence the second acre for a dollar. Sellers didn't want to dig a new well to be able to sell the second acre separately). I come along, wanting to build a good shop (30X50X12). Before I put the offer in to buy it I talked to the township supervisor, show him the plat map with a sketch of where & how big I wanted my shop on the vacant acre and he says no problem. I get everything lined up, ready to go, and go for my permit. Permit denied.... A garage is an accessory building. There is no PRIMARY structure on my second acre! Wound up going for a variance but only had to go before the Township board because it met all the zoning and setbacks except for a primary structure. They approved it but branded my property tile that nothing else can be done without a primary structure. Never hurts to ask.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,598 Posts
Just went through something similar. Bought a new house. The house sits on 1 acre and I have a mortgage on it. The sale included the vacant 1 acre lot next door, outright for $1.00 The very original owners bought both acres, fenced it as one property and built the house on 1 of the acres (but put the well on the other acre! hence the second acre for a dollar. Sellers didn't want to dig a new well to be able to sell the second acre separately). I come along, wanting to build a good shop (30X50X12). Before I put the offer in to buy it I talked to the township supervisor, show him the plat map with a sketch of where & how big I wanted my shop on the vacant acre and he says no problem. I get everything lined up, ready to go, and go for my permit. Permit denied.... A garage is an accessory building. There is no PRIMARY structure on my second acre! Wound up going for a variance but only had to go before the Township board because it met all the zoning and setbacks except for a primary structure. They approved it but branded my property tile that nothing else can be done without a primary structure. Never hurts to ask.
I’m surprised you got a loan on a property w/o a water source. Ordinarily, banks require one to combine the 2 lots. If so, you could have avoided the hassle of a variance. Combining also reduces property tax.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
537 Posts
I suspect what happened was the flippers figured it out, said nothing and sold it. The Bank didn't know that there was no well. When it was surveyed you could see the well head about 3 feet on the second lot. I'm just as happy to own the acre, that I could build a house on, outright.. no mortgage.
 
1 - 20 of 68 Posts
Top