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Another cool thing is, Lapeer bought the old MIS bleachers. There are cement pads already poured directly behind the bleachers in the videos where they will go. I suspect the current bleachers will be removed, since they're so close to the track (safety).

Speaking of safety; what do y'all think of the people sitting on the walls during all of this?
When I went to Lapeer to meet up with Rick (Mr. Particular), I could not be more disappointed in the track. The strip is very narrow and the bleachers were very far from the track, you literally couldn't photograph the cars on the track. Elevated bleachers and having them close to the track helps.

Look at Norwalk, they have the best situation on the pit side - great viewing for everyone.
 
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Discussion Starter #22
Nope.

What springs are up front?
I don't understand the mindset of "those" people. It's as if rules don't pertain to them. I went down there one time to video a buddy. It honestly scared me being next to a car launching. I kept thinking of those video's of driveshafts being missled out in to the stands. But I did get a cool video-

250# Santhrup with 1/2 coil cut off for the original lower a-arms. With the TRZ's and their different spring pocket depth, it sits too low. I'm going to buy another set to raise the front back up for street driving, and it will help lessen some of the available travel.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Monk, sorry to hear about the damage due to the wheelstand. Looks cool, but not one bit fun to fix.

I run the TRZ arms as well and after replacing and re-routing tubes of my squished Lemon's headers I put these on the shocks:

Speedthane Shock Bumper Bump Stop Kit, 3 Inch (speedwaymotors.com)

Since my initial wheelstand and associated damage, I had gotten pretty good at front shock tuning and travel limiting based on Density Altitude and corresponding power.

However, after getting the carbs and engine dialed in after my last engine upgrade a switch from C14 to Q16 "just to see" on back to back passes at the track resulted in 5000 RPM flash stall and the perfect amount of wheelie on C14 to 5400 RPM flash stall and right up on the bumper on Q16. I was sick to look at the damage, but to my surprise the shock bumpers seemed to work and no damage to the headers this time.

Yeah........I won't make that mistake again either.
Thanks for that info Jason and the Bumper link. I haven't seen those but did put similar polyurethane stops on my shocks. Here's a video from earlier this year when I was tuning the bumper height. It probably needs more height for compression.

The only problem I see is track prep. Most t&t days, tracks are so-so. This event, it was so sticky, one of the volunteer track help (an older man) fell down at the start line and he couldn't get up. They literally had to peel him off the track:) So I have to ask, do you also tune for track prep??
 

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I don't understand the mindset of "those" people. It's as if rules don't pertain to them. I went down there one time to video a buddy. It honestly scared me being next to a car launching. I kept thinking of those video's of driveshafts being missled out in to the stands. But I did get a cool video-

250# Santhrup with 1/2 coil cut off for the original lower a-arms. With the TRZ's and their different spring pocket depth, it sits too low. I'm going to buy another set to raise the front back up for street driving, and it will help lessen some of the available travel.
You should not be beside the cars, not at the hit. A few months ago, a balancer came off an engine in the burnout box at one of the donk races. It was ugly.

Like I said, Norwalk is perfect; the track is wide so the cars have ample space to the wall, there is a paved lane next to the wall, there is a second fence, then another walking/viewing area, and finally well elevated bleachers. This keeps the majority of people at a good distance, and behind two catches. Viewing is perfect.

Milan is not as bad as Lapeer was when I went there, but they would do well to mimic Norwalk's arrangement. It ensures the spectator experience, safely.
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
You should not be beside the cars, not at the hit. A few months ago, a balancer came off an engine in the burnout box at one of the donk races. It was ugly.

Like I said, Norwalk is perfect; the track is wide so the cars have ample space to the wall, there is a paved lane next to the wall, there is a second fence, then another walking/viewing area, and finally well elevated bleachers. This keeps the majority of people at a good distance, and behind two catches. Viewing is perfect.

Milan is not as bad as Lapeer was when I went there, but they would do well to mimic Norwalk's arrangement. It ensures the spectator experience, safely.
I couldn't agree more. Norwalk's the perfect track. If someone finds something wrong with it, they should leave. Then it would be perfect again.

Milan is a decent facility but has become a cesspool for the "rules don't apply" crowd and the last few times I went, I got only 1 run because of how poorly it's operated. It really is that bad. I just heard they've been sold. Hopefully it will get better.

New owner of Lapeer took on a big project from what it was. Will be interesting to see how far he goes with it.
 

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Not mean to hijack, buddy crashed at JJ's race recently, hit the guardrail with spectators everywhere. Crazy what people will do if you don't police them.

FWIW when I was on complete radial prep I kept tightening (ended up full tight) the front, you couldn't hardly pick it up. Normally for TNT It's about 50% from full loose on extension. It will come up pretty easy when you pick up on the front. If I had longer tap bolts I would have limited the front travel even more. Also had the rear shocks almost full tight R/C. Don't think I could've kicked the tires on the tight track. On TNT prep it's a completely different surface and the 2-Step is pulled way back shocks setting changed. At TNT the car is borderline on a Radial. Seems to have more wheel speed or it chatters them.
 

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My wheelie bars were the best investment I made. Didn't need them all the time, but when I did, it saved lots of damage. And you are right, lifting is never the best. try to shift it, sometimes that can put the motor down in the torque curve and keep it up and you can peddle it REAL fast to bring it down.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Nice to see the results and thanks for the kind words. Good job Monk. ;)
Well, I called you a machine. Glad you took it as a compliment:)
I haven't been able to do much track testing this year but have been on a chassis dyno several times, only because it's free to me. The motor is making more power but it's pushing thru the converter and not showing its capability so I don't have any #'s to claim. I can't believe how responsive this engine still is with the bigger ported tunnel ram. This winter I still plan on doing the different spacer thickness testing but will first put in an overly tight converter in so I can focus on just the engine and have a more accurate rpm reference. There's currently a dip in power between 6600-7000 that I haven't been able to tune out with jets, air or e-bleeds but again, this could be the converter, possibly headers or extensions, maybe even the shear spacers. I will definitely let you know the results.
 

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When I went to Lapeer to meet up with Rick (Mr. Particular), I could not be more disappointed in the track. The strip is very narrow and the bleachers were very far from the track, you literally couldn't photograph the cars on the track. Elevated bleachers and having them close to the track helps.

Look at Norwalk, they have the best situation on the pit side - great viewing for everyone.
And then there is MCR....my favorite track.
 

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And then there is MCR....my favorite track.
Hahaha

MCR has its niche. Functioning scoreboards aren't one of them. It's the quintessential guardrail track, complete with semi-paved shutdown area and return road. The bleachers could be much closer to the action too, but at least they don't have the same problem as Lapeer with narrow racing surface and tall retaining walls. MCR guardrails are low enough to see the cars (unlike Lapeer).

We go MCR to race and hang out with our buddies. During the daylight you can reasonably watch the cars go down the track, but at night, you get to watch drag cars run to about 660' since the lighting is so poor beyond half track.

Taking video at night from the bleachers is nearly impossible with the bright ass LEDs in your face and black hole at the end of the track. In car video turns out OK...but the video at the end of the track looks like the MIllenium Falcon entering hyperdrive.

In summary, MCR is a long drive for me (1:45), it's very primitive, the lighting and scoreboards aren't adequate, the pavement leaves much to be desired, but the people are great and I still love it.

I'll always say, "a track is better than no track." The owners are living my dream retirement.
 

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View attachment 697889
I don't rely on peak chassis dyno numbers, only averages, and they're way up. Also, the "past peak" is way better.
Are you only doing 1000 rpm pulls? I don't know how you collect any sort of useful data when the power "roll in" is such a huge variable. Was there no interest in what the torque curve is between 4000 and 6000? I imagine you had a process to your dyno session, it's just a very strange dyno run to me and I'm trying to understand.
 

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Hahaha

MCR has its niche. Functioning scoreboards aren't one of them. It's the quintessential guardrail track, complete with semi-paved shutdown area and return road. The bleachers could be much closer to the action too, but at least they don't have the same problem as Lapeer with narrow racing surface and tall retaining walls. MCR guardrails are low enough to see the cars (unlike Lapeer).

We go MCR to race and hang out with our buddies. During the daylight you can reasonably watch the cars go down the track, but at night, you get to watch drag cars run to about 660' since the lighting is so poor beyond half track.

Taking video at night from the bleachers is nearly impossible with the bright ass LEDs in your face and black hole at the end of the track. In car video turns out OK...but the video at the end of the track looks like the MIllenium Falcon entering hyperdrive.

In summary, MCR is a long drive for me (1:45), it's very primitive, the lighting and scoreboards aren't adequate, the pavement leaves much to be desired, but the people are great and I still love it.

I'll always say, "a track is better than no track." The owners are living my dream retirement.
Sorry I didn’t catch up with you last I saw you there, arrived late and wanted to try some nitrous passes.

Word is there will be some improvements over the winter. Guard rails, surface etc...and no bracket racing....just heads up. Not looking like any racing for me. They get big turnouts for the no prep stuff. Kind of fun, but Im no competition for any of that...you can get up close and personal for sure.
698112
 

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Monk, bad to hear about your too much traction delima. You can get ahold of Mike at the Clio Muffler Man. He can buiuld you a set of headers that do not hang down. Most people do not know about him. He does lots of work for pro teams and nostalgia drags. One of his sons is a pro driver. Other is a mechaniac and my son works with them.
 

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Mike aka dragonwagon, you are right about Norwalk. It is a cherry track. They operate it like a runway full of fighter jets waiting to take off. I did hear they have canceled their 2021 season.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Not mean to hijack, buddy crashed at JJ's race recently, hit the guardrail with spectators everywhere. Crazy what people will do if you don't police them.

FWIW when I was on complete radial prep I kept tightening (ended up full tight) the front, you couldn't hardly pick it up. Normally for TNT It's about 50% from full loose on extension. It will come up pretty easy when you pick up on the front. If I had longer tap bolts I would have limited the front travel even more. Also had the rear shocks almost full tight R/C. Don't think I could've kicked the tires on the tight track. On TNT prep it's a completely different surface and the 2-Step is pulled way back shocks setting changed. At TNT the car is borderline on a Radial. Seems to have more wheel speed or it chatters them.
Hijack all ya want!
On another note, I've heard rumor our local Lapeer's track was built IHRA, that's why it's so narrow and it lessons the speed that a car can hit the wall sideways. I don't know if any of that is accurate. Personally, I'd be upset if I scrubbed the wall where at another track I had room to straightened out. Either way, that video is crazy! It looks like those guard rails have been hit before.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
What was the difference between the red and blue lines old vs new. What did you end up running on it. Motor looks awesome and car sounds great.
The last video was a 9.407 @ 139.5 with a 1.28 '60
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Are you only doing 1000 rpm pulls? I don't know how you collect any sort of useful data when the power "roll in" is such a huge variable. Was there no interest in what the torque curve is between 4000 and 6000? I imagine you had a process to your dyno session, it's just a very strange dyno run to me and I'm trying to understand.
Not sure what you're asking. The chassis dyno sheet I showed had pulls from ~2000 to ~7500 rpm's. I'm no expert but my objective is to maximize power in the 5500 to 7500 range, since this is what the engine will see on the track. I don't worry about below 5500. If the "power roll in" your referring to, is the power before converter flash; it can be influenced by different things; how quick you mash the pedal (flashing the converter), starting rpm, trans fluid temp, etc. I've had enough dyno runs to see that "roll in power" can vary but after converter "lock up" it evens out. My thinking is, on a chassis dyno, HP is most important. It is what gets you down the track. Again, I'm no expert...
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Monk, bad to hear about your too much traction delima. You can get ahold of Mike at the Clio Muffler Man. He can buiuld you a set of headers that do not hang down. Most people do not know about him. He does lots of work for pro teams and nostalgia drags. One of his sons is a pro driver. Other is a mechaniac and my son works with them.
Thanks Rick. I'll keep them in mind-
 
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