[eyecell007]

Hey guys -

Spent the winter working on several projects. Among those was installing a SC&C Stage 2 kit. The kit includes their special upper control arms with tall upper and lower NASCAR style ball joints.

Anyway, after installing and adjusting camber to the negative 0.5 degrees they called for, I checked the ride height. I had been told that the ride height may drop up to half an inch. I was down about 3/8s of an inch so not bad. Anyway, I drove the car around the block, came back and the car had lowered another 2 full inches and my camber settings went to about negative 4 (you could visibly see the difference).

I was up all night thinking about what went wrong. Everything is tight and I think installed properly.

Do you guys have any ideas???

FYI - the stock springs and spindles were used and the only thing changed is what comes in their stage 2 package which is the upper control arm and both ball joints. Everything else is stock.

 

[SS39667CHEVELLE]

I'd say the springs settled in their perches after a few pothole hits

 

[eyecell007]

I could see that but after the test drive, I came back and put the car in the air again to see what I could have missed. When I did that and lowered the car back, it was pack to the height it was supposed to be. After another test drive (about 15 feet) the body dropped back another two inches and the negative camber returned. For the life of me, I can't figure it out. Please let me know if you have any other ideas!

 

[Bill70]

What kind of suspension bushings are you using? If they are urethane did you grease them? It sounds like the bushings are tight and hold the car up a little bit. Can you push down on the bumper and get the suspension to move?

 

[eyecell007]

yep - bushings are greased. when I bounce the car I don't get the same effect. I can get the car to settle about 1/4" to 1/2" which is what I would expect but two inches plus just seems like way too much to me. I also now have a tire rub issue that will only get worse once I correct the camber issue. I could solve all of this by installing spacers underneath the springs but I'd rather figure out this problem rather than do something to compensate for it.

 

[Tom Mobley]

find the real ride height by by loosening the lower control arm bushing bolts and the upper bushing bolts or nut. take the shocks loose, then bounce the front end. wherever it ends up is the real ride height, tighten the control arms with the weight on the wheels, then re-install the shocks.

 

[Finally]

If you lift the front and let the suspension drop, then lower the front, the tires/suspension will hold the front up. You have to move the car to let the tires move back out to their normal position.

 

[eyecell007]

Thanks guys but I'm trying to figure out why the ride height changed as much as it did. All I replaced was the upper control arms and both ball joints. The spindles remained the same as did the lower control arm. I understand that the ball joint could change things a bit but 2-2.5"s seems like way too much and is causing me to wonder if I did something wrong on the install, etc.

 

[Finally]

Not sure what you could do wrong. Do you have the old lower ball joints so you can do a comparison? I agree a small change in height from different ball joints but 2.5" seems like too much.

What type of bushings were in the control arms before? If rubber it's possible someone preloaded them by tightening them down with the suspension hanging. You've now removed the preload and the suspension has dropped to where it wants to be.

 

[Geek's 65]

Did you tighten/torque all the suspension bolts while the car was hanging in the air or did you have the weight on all four before you did it. Makes all the difference in the world to leave everything finger tight and put the weight back on the car before tightening everything. Just a thought.

G

 

[eyecell007]

Not sure what you could do wrong. Do you have the old lower ball joints so you can do a comparison? I agree a small change in height from different ball joints but 2.5" seems like too much.

What type of bushings were in the control arms before? If rubber it's possible someone preloaded them by tightening them down with the suspension hanging. You've now removed the preload and the suspension has dropped to where it wants to be.

I believe they were rubber as everything up front appeared to be stock. It would be interesting if anybody out there has a 66-67 that has stock suspension that could measure from the ground to the top of the wheel opening so I could compare.

The ball joint sizes look similar.

 

[eyecell007]

Did you tighten/torque all the suspension bolts while the car was hanging in the air or did you have the weight on all four before you did it. Makes all the difference in the world to leave everything finger tight and put the weight back on the car before tightening everything. Just a thought.

G

Everything was tightened on the ground but now you have me wondering if it was actually settled because it was at the higher ride height when tightened. Can this be remedied (i.e. if I loosen things and then retighten with a full load would that change things)??

Either way though, I still don't understand how I can raise the car in the air, drop it down and have the top of the wheel well be at 27 inches to the ground, roll the car 15 feet and have them be at 24.5". But then if I put the car back on the hoist, raise it up, lower it back down, I immediately go back to the 27 inch number. I understand that things can change but this is just too much.

 

[Geek's 65]

Think you might try loosening the bushing bolts and bouncing the car with the weight on it. Then retighten them and see if it changes where the car wants/likes to sit.

 

[eyecell007]

I will try that but the car doesn't drop until AFTER it rolls. I effectively did that when I installed them but it can't hurt to try again.

Any other ideas guys? This is really ruining my weekend...

 

[Finally]

If you put in poly bushings they won't preload like rubber bushings. They're not bonded to the shell and inner sleeve. That's what causes the preload with rubber bushings. Tighten them with the suspension hanging then drop the car. The rubber has to twist in order for the car to drop and it will only twist so far causing it to hold the car up, preload. Poly bushings as I said are not bonded to the sleeve and shell so won't preload. They might hold the car up for a bit but will eventually settle to normal height.

The 2 inch difference you're seeing after rolling the car is what I described before. When you lower the car the bottom of the front tires have dropped down and in towards the center of the car. The tires grip the surface and won't allow them to swing out and the control arm up to normal position. Roll the car and the tires and control return to normal position. Nothing unusual going on there, it happens to all cars.

Sounds like the 2" drop is really normal height for your car based on engine, springs etc. I don't see based on what you said where you have altered the ride height, except possibly removing rubber bushings that were preloaded.

 

[mmaxon888]

What Hank says is spot on. Watch any Chevy truck that has been lifted and when it hits a dip, the tires move out. Reason is, the controls arms are angled down due to the lift and as the LCA swivels towards level, the wheel moves out. Normal.

You said "tall" upper and lower ball joints. There's your 2" drop as it sounds to me like that's a way to relocate a stock spindle instead of replacing it with a dropped spindle. Now the stock spindle is sitting on a taller lower ball joint and is closer to wheel wells and fender lips.

 

[Finally]

What Hank says is spot on. Watch any Chevy truck that has been lifted and when it hits a dip, the tires move out. Reason is, the controls arms are angled down due to the lift and as the LCA swivels towards level, the wheel moves out. Normal.

You said "tall" upper and lower ball joints. There's your 2" drop as it sounds to me like that's a way to relocate a stock spindle instead of replacing it with a dropped spindle. Now the stock spindle is sitting on a taller lower ball joint and is closer to wheel wells and fender lips.

I think you misread his post, or maybe I did. Upper ball joints are tall, lowers were replaced but are not tall.

 

[eyecell007]

To be clear, this is what I intalled in case you guys were wondering.

http://scandc.com/new/node/42

I did go with the NASCAR style ball joints as well.

I spoke to Mark and SC&C today who thinks that the springs are bad and that the original control arms had bad bushings that were causing the ride height to be too high. I'm not completely sure I buy that the old arms were causing the ride height to be higher because the bushings were bad. The arms are designed to move up and down so even if the bushings were bad, it shouldn't effect ride height (unless I misunderstood him).

At this point, I would love for somebody to give me measurements on their stock suspension so I can compare. I'm also going to insert some spring spacers and then readjust camber etc after the car has rolled. I just really wish I knew what caused the 2+ inch drop in the first place.

 

[Finally]

...At this point, I would love for somebody to give me measurements on their stock suspension so I can compare. I'm also going to insert some spring spacers and then readjust camber etc after the car has rolled. I just really wish I knew what caused the 2+ inch drop in the first place.

Guess you would need to tell us what year Chevelle and what diameter tire you have. You would be better to measure fender lip to center (spindle) of wheel, that will eliminate any difference in measurement to due to different wheels/tires.

 

[eyecell007]

Sure - as mentioned earlier it's a 66 Chevelle. Tires are 245/45/18s - tire diameter is 26.7. Any chance in diamter should only represent half the change in height though.