Chevelles.com banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
594 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Brand new engine, starter, etc. Red top battery at 14v went to start it and acrid odor and smoke from the inside (cables are good) and a distinct sizzling going on.

Only thing that went wrong in its life was last week when my father and law and I were hooking everything up he had the cables backwards on the battery (this was essentially an engine stand startup so nothing in the car was hooked up) and he tried turning it over a few times (we both thought the starter needed shimming or something. I don't think this engine is too high compression (was built for pump gas)! Only other symptoms was the cables were warm to touch from the draw.:surprise:

Also should add that the prior starts (x2) the motor turns sloooowly then picks up speed and fires...

Is it toast? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-829105/overview/year/1972/make/chevrolet/model/chevelle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,985 Posts
Check your alternator for damage also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,800 Posts
Cranking a mini-starter too long is reputed to cook them. Same w/ regular starters for longer.
Smoke is a good indicator of bad things, while degrees F are not.

Get a voltmeter (DVM), and a basic understanding of Ohm's Law if you want to work on (or ask about) things electrical.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,865 Posts
Only two terminals on the mini starters, pretty hard to get the wiring wrong....
Soooooooooooooo, if you got smoke & smell, I would say it is cooked....literally.

I also do not see any benefit trying to make DVM measurements on it. If supply voltage was low, all that would happen is it would crank slowly or not at all. Ya don't get smoke!

If polarity was reversed, I suspect it would crank in the opposite direction.

Smoke & smell indicate excessive current draw & the starter needs to removed & checked further.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
594 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Update: I pulled it and did some bench testing and the gear is ejected but no rotation just smoke after 3 seconds or so. I am saying its cooked. I will be getting another and doing a detailed teardown on this one to share the knowledge and see what happened. I have a few fellow submariners that were/are electrical division guys who worked on the big motor generators so they should be able to spot what happend to this thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,465 Posts
I’m glad you were able to find the problem.

Many, if not all of the Summit and JEGS branded electrical parts are cheap Chinese “white box” parts with their name on the outside. I’d spend the extra money and buy name brand parts for anything that has the potential to leave you stranded on the side of the road.

Steve R
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,800 Posts
Yep, no sense troubleshooting, thinking, or researching the problem. Shotgun parts and ask others to think for you is the best way to go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,865 Posts
I wouldn't be so sure that 'brand name' parts are any better than parts that come in a no-name box.
Mate bought a MSD Dyna Force starter. Next to my no-name Chinese starter, it looked identical. Even same shade of red! What was different was the price: nearly 3 times as much for the MSD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,465 Posts
I wouldn't be so sure that 'brand name' parts are any better than parts that come in a no-name box.
Mate bought a MSD Dyna Force starter. Next to my no-name Chinese starter, it looked identical. Even same shade of red! What was different was the price: nearly 3 times as much for the MSD.
That’s not by accident. Some name brand parts are now made in China, some aren’t, you need to read the box. I worked at a distributor for performance parts, many of the white box imported parts intentionally mimic the appearance of the quality name brand items. I left about 10 years ago, but at that time you would see samples brought to the company by salesmen of ignition boxes that looked identical to MSD 6A and 6AL boxes with the ribbed pattern, except where the real box said MSD in the front. There were nearly identical copies of most MSD coils, Holley and Edelbrock fuel pumps, Crane gold Roller rocker arms, Hitachi and Powermaster starters, several Edelbrock intake manifolds, Moroso fabricated valve covers, Piaa lights, the list could go on. My favorite was the cheap $100 HEI, you can tell them from quality HEI’s because the head is held onto the shaft with four screws. They only way to tell was to hold the two different parts next to each other, often the weight, casting quality or electrical connections would give away the cheap copy.

My Friends that still work there say things are much worse now. Back then a friend ran the returns department, the knock off HEI distributors and roller rockers were running about a 25% return rate due to defects.

Steve R
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
594 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Tore it down just to see what it looked like inside and see if I could get it to work again just to see. I sanded the main drum with the copper windings and the magnets but didn't mess with the brushes other than a cleaning. So here are the pictures and a quick video of it starting again! I am waiting on the new one to come so put it back in to see and it doesn't have enough oomph to turn it over for some reason.....

Thoughts on any major issues in the pictures? What is that wad of crap I pulled out? What would cause it to loose its balls?

Google Photos Link
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,865 Posts
Steve R,
I use lots of the Chinese HEIs here, $60 for Chevs, $80 for most other brands. They look very well made, & I partially strip them to change the centri curve; the internals are well lubricated, an indication of attention to detail. The centri weights, cross arm & weight plate are all chromed to prevent rust. Have never seen the ' 4 screws' you refer to, these are welded.
I saw my first HEI failure a few weeks ago, coil failed. Not a Chinese unit, a brand name unit that is nearly $300 from Summit.....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,929 Posts
I bought a new starter 6-7 years ago. It cranks my 468 HOT or KOLD like the plugs are out. It is the new style " 70s Version " one piece case, Like the old 8418. It has started my 468 quite a few times over the 37.000 miles on the new DELCO starter. It also has the short 70s style " Hi Per. " solenoid.
Bob
H.E.I. units. I bought a new one from a Chevy Dealership. WHY? One summer, Off shore or other Quality units left me making late night phone calls... HEY I am broke down! Modules, Bad wire. I did NOT even keep the bad units for door stops, I threw them both in the TRASH.
" Good parts aint Cheap, AND Cheap parts aint good " :crying:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,865 Posts
To add to my post #13.....
Unpacked a brand new Edel Perf intake manifold today & bolted on the carb. Secondaries would not open.....because of overhang of the mounting carb catching the sec t/blades. There was also overhang in four other places. This is purely & simply poor quality control. What worries me is this is what I can see. What might be wrong that I cannot see...

It has a 'Made in USA' sticker on the intake....

So I think a rush to judgement that all offshore parts are rubbish....is a rush to hudgement.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top