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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
My life with cars started with matching number Chevrolet SS cars because I was lucky enough to be able to get into this hobby when they still made a decent muscle car that I could buy brand new. As the years went by I got into the 65 to 67 used Corvette kick and after owning a few I bought a real nice matching number one. I would never alter the car except for a set of Cragar wheels on it but always wanted to do more to it. Next I turned to a 69 true SS Camaro that was non matching numbers but after sinking a lot of money into it and still not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel I sold it and purchased another 69 base Camaro that was non matching as well but had everything I wanted in it already except for a 4 speed transmission. I put a 4 speed into it replaced what I wanted and kept that car for 15 years, a record for me. After owning a few of the new Era of Muscle cars I decided to go back to a old car again. The search was on but I was looking for a car with a minimum of a big block with a 4 speed in it. I found my 71 Malibu that met my minimum requirements plus a lot more. I was a little disappointed because even though the car was pretty clean it wasn't a frame off as advertised, stupid me I went by photos. Well seeing that I was older and was retiring soon I decided I would go thru the car and make it the best I could. In the end I have a non matching car built the way I would want it and added the changes to the car I wanted to do myself and to me it's just as good as any matching number true SS car I ever owned. To me the matching number true SS has gone by the wayside. How about you. :grin2:

 

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My life with cars started with matching number Chevrolet SS cars because I was lucky enough to be able to get into this hobby when they still made a decent muscle car that I could buy brand new. As the years went by I got into the 65 to 67 used Corvette kick and after owning a few I bought a real nice matching number one. I would never alter the car except for a set of Cragar wheels on it but always wanted to do more to it. Next I turned to a 69 true SS Camaro that was non matching numbers but after sinking a lot of money into it and still not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel I sold it and purchased another 69 base Camaro that was non matching as well but had everything I wanted in it already except for a 4 speed transmission. I put a 4 speed into it replaced what I wanted and kept that car for 15 years, a record for me. After owning a few of the new Era of Muscle cars I decided to go back to a old car again. The search was on but I was looking for a car with a minimum of a big block with a 4 speed in it. I found my 71 Malibu that met my minimum requirements plus a lot more. I was a little disappointed because even though the car was pretty clean it wasn't a frame off as advertised, stupid me I went by photos. Well seeing that I was older and was retiring soon I decided I would go thru the car and make it the best I could. In the end I have a non matching car built the way I would want it and added the changes to the car I wanted to do myself and to me it's just as good as any matching number true SS car I ever owned. To me the matching number true SS has gone by the wayside. How about you. :grin2:

A car is original once...period. Numbers matching cars are nothing more than a collection of parts that could have been / might have been assembled at the factory based upon the date codes of the parts, the build date of the car and I guess the alignment of the stars. Sure #s cars are authentic representations of how cars were built at the factory in a given year or month or whatever but they are not original cars.

As with you Hank I cannot see the $$$$$$ (never mind the effort in chasing down parts) that goes with building a #s car. I got out of the Corvette hobby because I was fed up with the whole numbers scene. Insane prices for parts and insane prices for documented cars. They might be worth that much to some folks but not to me. I would much rather build a car my way and let the numbers be damned. For others ...sure if ya want that sort of discipline in your build have at it. Not for me.

I just made some changes to my music system in the car. I have a Turnswitch modified radio that looks original but it has USB input for Flash Drive music and two aux RCA jack plugs hidden behind the radio. I got a little "bluetooth" receiver / decoder gadget that plugs into the RCA jacks on the radio. Now I can listen to Pandora from my iPhone over my old car radio. Original / numbers matching ???? Hell no. Do I enjoy the music coming thru my non original kick panel speakers and non original package shelf speakers...Oh yes.

To each his own is OK by me. I must say though that I see the Chevelle side of the hobby following the path "pioneered" by the Corvette guys. I am afraid it is headed in the same crazy "big bucks for everything" direction that the Vette hobby has gone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
After the stint with the 65 to 67 Vettes in later years I owned a few others a new 76 and a new 88 coupe. Years later I bought a low mileage numbers matching 88 roadster. I used to go to a lot of Corvette shows when I had the 67 coupes and they were enjoyable. But years later when I bought the 88 roadster I went to one Corvette show and found that most of the people were snobs. That was the last Corvette show I ever went too and the last Corvette I ever owned.
 

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I never had a interest in numbers matching. Mainly because I perfer to tinker with stuff. So the price of a matching car would just go out the window as soon as I started pulling the original stuff. Besides the original stuff was what the basically what the corporate bean counters let the engineers install on these cars and still make a profit.
Theres alot better stuff you can install in a old hotrod today than what gm installed 45 years ago. Jim
 

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I never had a interest in numbers matching. Mainly because I perfer to tinker with stuff. So the price of a matching car would just go out the window as soon as I started pulling the original stuff. Besides the original stuff was what the basically what the corporate bean counters let the engineers install on these cars and still make a profit.
Theres alot better stuff you can install in a old hotrod today than what gm installed 45 years ago. Jim
That says it all Jim. Along with better stuff avail today there is stuff GM refused to install in the cars that was ALREADY in the parts bin that unfortunately stayed in the bin because of whatever decisions were made by the powers that be.
 

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Ideally, I'd want several cars! I love the correct, numbers cars, especially survivors, but I cannot afford such a thing. With my last '68, I did what I thought was the next best thing. I kept everything as factory appearing as I could, changing things you could not see, like a 700R4, Pertronix etc.
I look at numbered cars the same way I look at Playboy, its nice to see whats out there, even though I can never put it in my own garage, and I don't hate the guys who can afford that stuff. I fully understand both sides of the coin, and don't see why more people can't as well.
 

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As time goes by the numbers cars will diminish simply because of parts attrition and unavailability. That being said they are like time pieces, a glimpse of the historical past. For now, they retain and gain value in the collector market. Rebuilding/restoring a numbers car is a box that is getting smaller and smaller and more expensive.

I appreciate and own both. All were bought well and all are enjoyed by myself and family. More than anything I enjoy driving, showing and taking care of all of them. I appreciate Hank's honesty as much as his craftsmanship his helpful attitude as well as his car.
 
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I think that many of the folks that pay for numbers are into the hobby for the love of money, not for the love of the cars and some seem to really believe an L on the trim tag makes a car worth more.

I couldn't care less about numbers myself although I suppose those people are making my original motor 69 SS worth more maybe.
 

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I could care less about matching numbers. Look I understand and respect the whole idea of making your car look exactly how it looked when it rolled off the showroom floor in 1967, it's just not for me.

I'd rather have a nice set of polished Torque Thrusts with BF Goodrich Radial T/A's compared to 14" bias ply tires on steel wheels with a hubcap. I'd rather have power disc brakes and power steering compared to 4 wheel manual drums and manual steering.

I like how my car sounds with a set of headers and a 2-1/2" mandrel bent system compared to factory manifolds and a quiet 2-1/4" exhaust. As for a matching number's motor, meh. I rarely see anyone at a cruise night or a car show bothering to check the numbers on the block vs the VIN#.

It's really all about personal preference and that's how I prefer my Musclcars.
 

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I decided I would go thru the car and make it the best I could. In the end I have a non matching car built the way I would want it and added the changes to the car I wanted to do myself and to me it's just as good as any matching number true SS car I ever owned. To me the matching number true SS has gone by the wayside. How about you. :grin2:
I agree with you 100%! :yes: I also prefer to "mod" my cars the wau I want them to be than keeping them original. I also prefer a better, updated car which still has it's retro looks but with more modern mechanicals… :thumbsup:
and
"found that most of the people were snobs."
Unfortunately, I find that too…especially Corvette guys and some Mopar (especially Hemi car) guys… :rolleyes:
and
I never had a interest in numbers matching.Theres alot better stuff you can install in a old hotrod today than what gm installed 45 years ago. Jim
Yep!... That's exactly what I meant in my reply to "HKalin"… :yes:
and
"I did what I thought was the next best thing. I kept everything as factory appearing as I could, changing things you could not see, like a 700R4, Pertronix etc.
Agreed! I have a big block under the hood but mated to a 700R4 transmission. The car still has that '70's "muscle car" retro look but with much better highway drivability. :thumbsup:
and
I think that many of the folks that pay for numbers are into the hobby for the love of money, not for the love of the cars and some seem to really believe an L on the trim tag makes a car worth more.
"I couldn't care less about numbers myself"...
and
"I could care less about matching numbers...it's just not for me."
I rarely see anyone at a cruise night or a car show bothering to check the numbers on the block vs the VIN#.
It's really all about personal preference and that's how I prefer my Musclcars.
I agree with both of you Dean and Greg… :yes: A lot of the guys who care more about the "numbers matching" thing see their cars more like an "investment" :rolleyes: than a toy to enjoy. :yes:

Claude. :)

P.S: HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone! :D
 

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Everyone knows it's not a numbers correct car until it has a Blue GM decal on the door l:)
 
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some seem to really believe an L on the trim tag makes a car worth more.
So why does the L make it more valuable and how much? My wagon was manufactured at Van Nuys, it has the L on the trim tag. This car is as far from numbers matching as it can be and still look stock on the outside. I want comfort, convenience, power everything and cruise control because I build cars to drive and love driving them.
 

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Ideally, I'd want several cars! I love the correct, numbers cars, especially survivors, but I cannot afford such a thing. With my last '68, I did what I thought was the next best thing. I kept everything as factory appearing as I could, changing things you could not see, like a 700R4, Pertronix etc.
I look at numbered cars the same way I look at Playboy, its nice to see whats out there, even though I can never put it in my own garage, and I don't hate the guys who can afford that stuff. I fully understand both sides of the coin, and don't see why more people can't as well.
I agree. The price of a meticulously restored, fully numbers matching SS396 or 454 has skyrocketed to the point it's not within the reach of many people. The value is so high most are afraid to drive them for fear of the slightest damage or worse. That relegates them to show only, and there are only a few shows in the country that are judged by competent and knowledgeable judges (and that's sometimes debatable). This means you need an enclosed trailer and a truck equipped to safely pull it. Then there's the travel, hotels, etc., which is $$. I appreciate and love to look at such cars but they're just not affordable to me. I personally would rather have one that's restored to appear and sound correct with some hidden improvements and equipped the way I would've ordered it new, including paint color. You can drive and enjoy such a car without fear or remorse and still win trophies at the local shows if that's your thing.
 

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the stereotypical snob you find in the Corvette crowd can be found in any car circle. most of the time it comes from the people who are the check writers vs the person who gets there hands dirty. when I first started to show my Chevelle I meet all kinds of Chevelle "snobs" some much worse then the Corvette people I know (trust me I know a lot of them)

I say own what you like and don't judge others, we are all in this for the same reason others just take other roads to get there. A numbers matching car will not drive any better then a non numbers matching car. that is if both are in good running order. threads like this just turn into pissing matches anyhow
 

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the stereotypical snob you find in the Corvette crowd can be found in any car circle. most of the time it comes from the people who are the check writers vs the person who gets there hands dirty. when I first started to show my Chevelle I meet all kinds of Chevelle "snobs" some much worse then the Corvette people I know (trust me I know a lot of them)

I say own what you like and don't judge others, we are all in this for the same reason others just take other roads to get there. A numbers matching car will not drive any better then a non numbers matching car. that is if both are in good running order. threads like this just turn into pissing matches anyhow
That pretty much covers it for me. Mine looks pretty good, runs really good, and I drive it a lot. Some of you have even seen it. Perfect...no. a "numbers car"...far from it. Fun...oh yeah. As they say...different strokes....
 

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I think that many of the folks that pay for numbers are into the hobby for the love of money, not for the love of the cars and some seem to really believe an L on the trim tag makes a car worth more.

I couldn't care less about numbers myself although I suppose those people are making my original motor 69 SS worth more maybe.
Same here! Drives me nuts
when I bought mine it was 90% original NOM. BOring as hell too. Funny thing is if my frame off was done to oem numbers stuff it would be worth 1/3 (but dont care about $).
Dont follow the herd make it yours and drive it. Cant create memories under a car cover.
 

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My 69 is numbers matching, mostly as the engine is and the transmission is not. No trace of original trans. The rear end is also born with the car. That however is by accident. When I bought my car, I went to look at it and liked it so I bought it. It just happened to be numbers matching. Recently I did what I would call a medium grade restoration. I made an effort to return several things back to what they were like when the car was new. This involved mostly color correction but also returned to some original components in the engine bay. That being said my car is not original and has many items that would not be found on an original car. This is mostly because I prefer the non original over the original. Items such as headers, intake manifold, carb,wheels,fuel pressure gauge,steering column tach, air cleaner, etc. It was also a original bench seat car but I wanted buckets so I changed it. I have never entered my car into a judged competition and I never will as I don't need others to tell me what is wrong with my car and I really don't care. As they say, if you ever see my car on a trailer, call the cops because it is being stolen.
 

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The only part of my drivetrain that is original to the car is the rear end. Do I wish that it was all original, sure. But it doesn't bother me that its not. It is what it is and that was beyond my control. I still tried to restore it as close to original as I could afford to do. I couldn't afford new old stock sheet metal or a period correct 512 block rebuild. So I bought after market body panels and a $4500 rebuilt 454 complete engine that started out as a truck engine. It still looks original, short of getting down with a mirror looking for the "numbers". We enjoy our car, we drive it to shows and around town, but not now since there is salt on the roads. I can't wait for spring to get here so we can get it out again. Our car is not an investment for future returns, but an investment in our enjoyment of life. And it is really fun to have the top down and floor the throttle and have the cowl induction pop up, hear the engine roar and see the big smile on my wifes face with her hair in the wind.
 
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