Team Chevelle banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Took the Muncie back out of the car this weekend and it looks like bad news...

First of all some background, Rebuilt Muncie M-21 and 331 rear behind BB, 621 bell, Hayes clutch/PP/brg assy# HAY 85-110
Dia. 11 x 1 1/8 x 10 and a new roller pilot

Ok has not ben right since the day installed, Chattered xtremely bad in 1st and rev. also just about had to burn the clutch to backup even at 2500 rpm, Got it out and it has only 75mi on the frame off car and the clutch looks like it has ben in for 10k miles and ran hard the whole time, took the muncie to a friend to check it out today and all is good, burnt spots on my fresh flywheel and on the PP, massive clutch dust in the bell and the painted part of PP looks like excessive heat has ben on it, throwout brg looks good but clutch disk looks "again like it has 10k mi"
The only thing i can see is the roller pilot was not turning free, if you put a screwdriver in it it would turn but not by your finger, this has already ben replaced with a brass one,

ANY IDEAS WHAT CAUSED THIS, and i have already called hayes and they gave me a bunch of BS about not installed correctly,
i have installed many a clutch without a problem and this one was no differant until now that is.....

------------------
__________________________________________________
myhot69's website
_________________________

$$$$ How Fast Do You Want To Go??? $$$$

[This message has been edited by myhot69 (edited 09-09-2001).]
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,299 Posts
Hot, (?)
You say that you had to "just about burn the clutch up" to get it to move in reverse ???? Why ??? With a 3.31 gear and a rat motor you should have been able to pop the clutch with the engine idleing and still back up. A burnt up clutch is caused by the clutch slipping. There can be but a few causes for slipping:
Wrong adjustment causing the clutch to always be slightly disengaged.
Something in the drivetrain putting too much load on the motor. (Parking brake stuck ??)
Driver error.
Last but not least, defective clutch.

------------------
Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

1971 Heavy Chevy - original owner
Team Chevelle #100
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The whole problem is the severe chattering, with the car in 1st or reverse at little above idle it would shake the dash and stering collum apart, it was so bad it would make the speedo needle jump to about 30mph or so and the hood bounceing was bad too.
I had to run the RPM up to make the chatter less severe and therefore slip and burning the clutch. The only reason i kept playing with it was trying differant things/ajustments to make it better.
The clutch adjustment is good about 1" from the top and it defanantly wasnt slipping, once you got it rolling it would bite a heafty second, third and 4th.
It wasnt slipping on its own thats for sure it was me slipping it to make the chatter less severe.
as far as the car in a load, brakes on/stuck, In nutral, car running i can push it by myself on asphalt driveway with no problems.

Hay im stumped i will admit it, the flywheel was turned again yesterday to check for worpage and it was GOOD except the burnmarks of coarse. I have leaned tward a bad clutch and/or PP the whole time but i cant be sure that these parts are bad and therefore i am really weary of puttin it back together with a new clutch assy. Thanks Darryl

I have always ben a gear banger but that turbo 400 is sounding easier all the time



[This message has been edited by myhot69 (edited 09-09-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Check out your bellhousing alignment. I have heard if this is out of whack, it can cause severe clutch chatter. Also, check clutch troubleshooting section of any Chilton's (Professional) manual. Go through the list and check out anything pertaining to clutch chatter. If you don't have one I can check mine when I get home tonight and give you a list of things to check out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
425 Posts

·
Gold Founding Member
Joined
·
10,967 Posts
I've had clutch problems (in a Honda, not Chevy) that were finally traced to:

1. Missing engine to trans dowell pins. Trans not properly aligned to engine.

2. High tech, most wonderfull, fuel efficient Roller pilot bearing wiped out by misalignment either during installation of trans, or by operation of mis-aligned trans.

I'll not use a roller pilot bearing if I have a choice about it.
 
G

·
I'm not sure what the whole travel distance is, but it should just start grabbing probably no more than an inch off the floor...not from the top. Regardless of where it grabs, if it's chattering, there's probably another problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Larry, Thanks but i have had at least 10 people to look at the whole thing, clutch/pp/brg/flywheel/trannie/pilot/bell
and they all say its a bad Pressure Plate and the rest of the pieces are good, so i am going to order a new RAM clutch and PP/brg and put it back together.

I will surely post how it does and if i got screwed out of 250$ from my hays clutch

Thanks All
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,968 Posts
Something that's easy to do, are you sure the disk is in correctly? The "hub" that is raised in the center should go to the rear of the car. Normally if its reversed, the clutch won't release properly but anything is possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,451 Posts
"barely off idle shake that will shake the dash and hood to death" yea, i experience it all the time, i just don't give it gas untill i've almost let the clutch out completely. i have the EXACT same clutch and same simptoms. now i've been daily driving mine for a year with it and once you get use to it it's ok, it's either NO GAS, or ALL GAS, just kind of a weird clutch that will grab like a mother...... i have a 70 bb, with same 331 rear-end. and an M20. i think the hayes are just that way, it ain't like no other clutch i've had either, all balls or no balls
at first i did like you and tried more and more gas till i figured out use less gas (almost none) i usually just slowly let it off at idle then give some gas as it locks up or after it locks up.

------------------
1970 SS396 AKA 454/4spd
My Chev-Hell Page
GOLD Member #783
Ft.Worth, Tx
Big Block Chevy.net
proud owner of this site
(OO=ss=OO)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
I have experienced the same exact symptoms with my 70 Camino BB, m-20, with 331. I have tried 2 flywheels,three pressure plates,2 clutch discs,2 bellhousings, new pilot bushing, new motor mounts, rebuilt trans, and new rear suspension bushings. Have I missed anything????? I have about worn out the trans mounting bolts. I am convinced now that there is something wrong with the mounting flange on the crank shaft itself. I am going to check on this next as I have run out of other ideas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chev-hell:
"barely off idle shake that will shake the dash and hood to death" yea, i experience it all the time, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

chev-hell, No Offence ment but i have WAY to much time, effort and money in this car to live with a problem that needs to be corrected, if it was not that bad WHY would i even be woried about it, also you have a M20 that has a Differant First gear range than the M21, That does make a huge differance in 1st gear...

But it doesn't matter as i just got home from the speed shop with a NEW CENTERFORCE assy. and i will be puting it in this weekend and then we will see whats wrong or wright as i hope the case may be.



------------------
__________________________________________________
myhot69's website
_________________________

$$$$ How Fast Do You Want To Go??? $$$$
 
G

·
I totally agree, I could never live with a chattering clutch either. You should never have to nurse it so doesn't shake 'n bake. Good luck with the Centerforce, hope that fixes it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,177 Posts
I read this post the other day and could not remember the reasons for a chattering clutch.
I now remember. Ah.. It's so much fun getting old.

Ok, chattering caused by
1. Warped flywheel and or pressure plate
( I know, yours was surfaced )
2. large diameter clutch with soft springs.
3. New clutch with soft springs.

Added things to look at.
Make sure the throw out bearing slides easily
on the transmission sleeve.
If the clutch ever got really HOT. Replace it.
You may have a springy linkage on your Z-bar.

When you had the flywheel resurfaced, was it too rough? If so, this causes grabbing.

[This message has been edited by 69454Malibu (edited 09-13-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,451 Posts
70is,
i don't know the cam it's running (engine was already built) but i get 12+" of vac. at idle, and it' producing 425hp or so (340rwhp on dyno) and over 500ft.lbs. it's the perfect driver but the engine likes the 950hp MUCH better than the 750 on it now
(gas milage reasons)

69 let me know what that centerforce does, i've been kind of wanting to change clutches to, and would like a SMMMMOOOOOOTTTTHHH take off if possible. BUT a clutch is something i've never messed with, i WAS an auto man myself, things change


------------------
1970 SS396 AKA 454/4spd
My Chev-Hell Page
GOLD Member #783
Ft.Worth, Tx
Big Block Chevy.net
proud owner of this site
(OO=ss=OO)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I am hopeing to get it in this weekend, but i have to get a few things finished first, Pressure wash the house, cut the grass, paint 2 rooms inside, replace the carpet in those same rooms, replace a bad tele. jack wire & hand dig 80' ditch 2' deep for new power line into the garage because the old one went bad and i have a temperary splice on it, after i get all this done i can work on my car or sleep, my choice


Now that i think about it maybe not this weekend
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top