[1phat72]

Just wondering what everyone thinks of this cam, I can't make up my mind on this cam, dart oval port heads, 850 demon, turbo 400, 11" TCI, 3:31 gears, 1 7'8 headers, 99% street car. Let me know Thank you

Cam specs
292 300 adv
231 239 at 50
600 600 lift
110 lobe

 

[BillyGman]

That cam IS on the small side for a 496 CID engine, but it's just about exactly what you'll need since you're using a 3.31:1 ring & pinion gear ratio, and a torque converter that most likely will be somewhere in the 2,200-2,800 RPM stall speed range. So because you've chosen both a mild rear gear ratio as well as a mild stall speed, that camshaft should be the biggest that you should use. If you choose a cam that's any bigger than that one is without changing the rear gears and especially choosing a higher stall speed, the car is gonna be a bit of a disappointment in the 0-30 MPH acceleration range.

 

[540Hotrod]

You're definitely building a lower RPM combo it looks like...496 with Dart ovals can make a LOT of power. I think you could sneak a little higher into the low 240's on a 112 LSA for sure and it would still peak HP well below 6000 rpm if that is what you're shooting for.

How much compression does it have? What intake? A/C? PB?

JIM

 

[BillyGman]

You're definitely building a lower RPM combo it looks like...496 with Dart ovals can make a LOT of power. I think you could sneak a little higher into the low 240's on a 112 LSA for sure and it would still peak HP well below 6000 rpm if that is what you're shooting for.

How much compression does it have? What intake? A/C? PB?

JIM

I agree that jumping it up to the 240 degree range @.050 won't hurt his car's acceleration potential even with the very low stall speed RPM he's going to have with that torque converter he has, but only if he also uses a cam with a 112 LSA like you've implied, rather than the 110 LSA of that cam he has asked about. But he should also be made aware of the fact that the wider 112 LSA will likely produce a very smooth idle too. Particularly when coupled with a relatively short [email protected] like we're talking about here.

That might not be of any concern of his, but if it is, and if he rather have a rough idle, then he needs to consider the trade-off. The wider 112 LSA will not only produce a wider RPM range of power, but also one that is slightly less intense, and comes on more gradual/less abruptly than one produced by a 110 LSA. So again, there are trade-offs. Ones that he may or may not be willing to accept.

The stall speed RPM having to be matched atleast somewhat closely with the camshaft duration @.050 is important. And the low stall speed he has limits the cam size he will be able to use. I realize that you know these things Jim, but I just want to make sure that he knows it.

 

[GRN69CHV]

Have experience with that cam in a 454 motor. Ran good to 6000 RPM. Would work in a 496. Cam comes ground 110LSA , 4* advanced for 106ICL. I'd install it with the 4* retarded keyslot to make it straight up for 110ICL. It will act like a larger cam. Those oval port Darts on a 496 won't need the early opening point of a 106ICL.

 

[69-CHVL]

That cam was great in a 454 - mine! Very mild, but ran great. Would pull the M20/3.31/28" tire down to 1100-1200 rpms - no convertor to smooth things our either. Given this experince, the 212 would be even milder in a 496 - too mild. Go the next size up.

 

[69 Malibu]

The 60213 is a bit hairy in my 468 but I love it. I think it would be about perfect with another 30 cubes.

 

[BillyGman]

For a 496 CID engine, going a step or two bigger in the camshaft size would be great even for a street driven car, but I still think that if you do go a step or two bigger, then that super mild stall speed which that 11" converter you have will exhibit is going to end up causing you to buy another converter (a 9 or 10" one) in order to gain more stall speed. And I'm quite sure that any tech guy at that cam company will tell you that if you were to telephone them.That cam you've asked about calls out for 3.55-3.73 rear gears, and a 2,800 RPM stall speed, and at your power level, you'll be lucky if you can even get anything more than a 2,500 RPM stall speed out of an 11" converter, even with the 3.31 rear gear ratio that you have. So that's why I wouldn't go any bigger with the cam if I were you unless you opt for another torque converter. But it's your $$, so good luck. Let us know how you make out.

 

[1phat72]

Thanks guys for all tips, it always seems like the cam is the biggest decision when building a motor.

 

[540Hotrod]

A 240'ish HR cam on a 112 LSA will still *thump* pretty good if that's an issue. I mean we just added 10+ degrees of duration to both sides and only spread LSA 2*. Measured and effective overlap is still going to increase some.

Those Dart oval ports are going to take care of velocity issues...I'm trying to add some duration to let them continue to pull as RPM climbs.

Either way, it WILL run well with the smaller cam...but won't have the hard pull of the larger one when you stuff your foot in it. Just depends on how you like to drive it. I prefer to have all I can when I nail it...and then tune for driveabilty when cruising. The tuning for the street is the big secret to running cams that will make the power when called on. It's not hard....just takes some time.

For example....years ago I ran an oval port 396 in a Nova with a T-400 using a $99 Boss Hog converter and only 3.08 gears. Tuning the 750 DP and timing curve allowed me to produce near zero tire spin off the line and it stayed on the converter for a LOONNG time. It was a killer street racer and highway runner. Later I stuck 4.11's in the rear and interestingly the trap RPM changed very little and ET's were almost identical. Just a different way of getting there.

A Dart oval port head on a 509 with 3.31's is going to be a FUN ride. I'd use an RPM Air Gap too to help out unless tire spin gets you. If so look at the Vic Jr.

JIM

 

[wildman926]

Jim,


Does your driving style consist of allowing the motor lug down low in gear?

 

[1phat72]

I just think with this cam the torq and driveablity around town will be awesome, and thats where the car will be most of the time under 3000 rpm. Thanks for all the help, I think the 60212 will be the correct choice for my car, I do have a air gap for it and compression is 10:1.

 

[69-CHVL]

For driveability and excellent manners, your making a good choice.

 

[BillyGman]

I just think with this cam the torq and driveablity around town will be awesome, and thats where the car will be most of the time under 3000 rpm. .

:yes:

 

[69 Malibu]

I also think you're making the right choice. The 60213 just starts to straighten out around 1800-2000. It works for me because of the 4.10's and the 3000 stall. If you spend alot of time under 3000, you probably wouldn't enjoy the 60213.

 

[Cowfarmer]

and what peak HP and Tq would you expect to see with the 60212 in a 496

 

[69-CHVL]

There was a guy here who built a 496 with 781's, forget the compression, but made 575HP and close to 600 ftlbs. Not too shabby. Thow in alum heads, should be around 600hp.

 

[540Hotrod]

Wildman926...

Not sure what you mean about lug down? I mean it will lug around at 2000 RPM in any gear with no issues. I'm not likely to have it in 5th gear at 1500 and then stomp on it if that's what you mean , but it will cruise along and then smoothly accelerate from 1500 in high gear....but truthfully I would probably drop a gear. I would drive a stock engined car the same way.

Obviously a 266-270+ @.050 cam is not a wimpy cam even in a 540. Having a stick makes a big difference in *luggability* along with what rear gears you have. I've got 3.07's so it would lug down lower in high gear if I had 4.56's.

If it was an auto it would be a cinch to tune and let the converter soak it up.

Sounds like 1phat72 is really looking for smoothness over power...so it would appear he's selected the right cam for his use.

I know a guy with a 454, hot roller cammed, aluminum headed Vette with EFI with a TKO and 3.08's who is literally determined to get it to have low speed manners like a new Caddy. He's been working at it for years.

Cam choice will have the biggest impact on manners...so select to what you are ultimately after.



JIM

 

[wildman926]

Wildman926...

Not sure what you mean about lug down? I mean it will lug around at 2000 RPM in any gear with no issues. I'm not likely to have it in 5th gear at 1500 and then stomp on it if that's what you mean , but it will cruise along and then smoothly accelerate from 1500 in high gear....but truthfully I would probably drop a gear. I would drive a stock engined car the same way.

Obviously a 266-270+ @.050 cam is not a wimpy cam even in a 540. Having a stick makes a big difference in *luggability* along with what rear gears you have. I've got 3.07's so it would lug down lower in high gear if I had 4.56's.

If it was an auto it would be a cinch to tune and let the converter soak it up.

Sounds like 1phat72 is really looking for smoothness over power...so it would appear he's selected the right cam for his use.

I know a guy with a 454, hot roller cammed, aluminum headed Vette with EFI with a TKO and 3.08's who is literally determined to get it to have low speed manners like a new Caddy. He's been working at it for years.

Cam choice will have the biggest impact on manners...so select to what you are ultimately after.



JIM

Jim,

Thank you for the info. The question was not for me, but aimed for one of our good friend's here on TC. :beers:

It is a real eye opener what you stated - "I know a guy with a 454, hot roller cammed, aluminum headed Vette with EFI with a TKO and 3.08's who is literally determined to get it to have low speed manners like a new Caddy. He's been working at it for years." I don't want our bud to think EFI is the be all/end all to obtaining "low speed manners like a new Caddy", spend all that time and money, and then be totally fustrated and put out, when all it takes is for him to push the clutch in, or downshift with his driving habits.

Good info, as the EFI section here is somewhat misleading in that you can have "low speed manners like a new Caddy" with a stick car and a hot cam. Maybe so, but not from your statement. Thanks again, and love that vette of yours.

Sorry to the OP, did not mean to hijack thread.

 

[Chris_69_SS]

Just wondering what everyone thinks of this cam, I can't make up my mind on this cam, dart oval port heads, 850 demon, turbo 400, 11" TCI, 3:31 gears, 1 7'8 headers, 99% street car. Let me know Thank you

Cam specs
292 300 adv
231 239 at 50
600 600 lift
110 lobe

You`ll be more than fine with that in a 99/100 street car.