[68454SS]

Ok, here's the deal. The wife and I have been looking for a nice late 90's suburban for a few weeks now to replace our '97 AWD Astro conversion van. We are going to be doing some light trailering and wanted the piece of mind of a larger/more stable towing vehicle. I won't mention any specific names of dealerships or salespeople, but I feel like I was getting jerked around BIG TIME by a certain big city dealer this last week. We were out of state for a conference, and stopped in to one of the big GM dealers in a certain big city. We found a decent looking '98 Suburban and started poking around. Salesperson #1 starts walking over and we start talking about the truck and I ask to see in side/start it up that sort of thing. Ok. Here's where the BS starts to flow. First of all, the guy can't even get the hood open on the truck. I am looking through the codes in the glovebox for rear end ratio/limited slip/trailering package codes, etc. . . and this guy is really getting his butt kicked by the little hood latch. I come out and lift the latch with my index and middle finger and raise the hood with the same hand. One point for me, zero for dealership. Upon seeing the engine, I notice that it has a big K+N cone filter and relocated airbox. It's kind of hard to miss. Salesperson #1 notices this and proceeds to tell me how this magical air filter acts like a turbocharger and 'sucks in' more air than normal and increases hp and mileage. He starts the engine and puts his hand over the filter noting said sucking effect. Oh BTW, he has to rev the engine three or four times after starting it to impress me. Sorry guy, I have a 450 hp big block at home, you ain't impressing anybody. Ok, whatever, this guy has no clue what he's talking about. As the engine is running he proceeds to clue me in to the many technical innovations made to automobiles in the past, oh, twenty or so years. Like the fact that this engine has a serpentine belt (really? WOW!) and that the pull loops for the trans./engine dipsticks are rubber coated so that retards like me don't burn ourselves. Generally I am ignoring salesperson #1 at this point and checking more important things, namely is the trans fluid cooked/obvious leaks/noises/fliuds etc . . . SOOOOooo the next step is the test drive! I am pretty psyched up about this, not only to feel the added horsepower of the pseudo-turbocharger, but also to listen to more of salesperson #1's rantings and half-baked stories. We take it out a few miles. It generally performs well. Nothing to complain about. Probably a good deal based on the miles and condition of the truck. Next step is to determine trade value on our Astro. We sit in the lobby and I take advantage of all the free stuff that I can (hey, can I get a Coke?). Because I feel I've earned it after automotive 101 with Captain Obvious Salesperson #1. I poke around the Corvette convertiable and new Impala SS a little bit. Now before we go on, a little about my van. It's a 1997 Astro AWD with 89,000 on the clock. It's a nice conversion van. Nothing mechanically wrong. Book value is in the $4800-$5000 range. I figure I should do allright here. Enter Salesperson #2. This is like good cop/bad cop I guess. Salesperson #2 basically informs me that my van is only good for wholesale value ($700!?!?) since it is - get this - too old to be listed in Kelly Blue book! And it has a lot of miles (89,000 is a lot for a '97?)! I proceed to ask him if he indeed was looking at my van. He goes into his pitch about how much he is losing on the suburban and how other dealers will mark up their prices to cover your trade, how he won't BS his customers, how they're the oldest dealership west of the Mississippi, how he has the cure for AIDS, etc. . . And tries to get me to look at payment plans. At this point I am trying to hold back my laughter so hard I feel that I'm about to soil myself so I tell them that I'll have to think about it and I have to get back to my conference (which I really did). Needless to say, I didn't go back. What is with salespeople like this? I realize that being a new car dealer he is maybe not too psyched up about selling an older car like this, but what happened to not assuming the buyer is a total retard?!?

 

[Redrum]

Because in that part of the country most people going into a dealership are retards....

 

[72SSAbody]

You might get more response if you edit this post and use paragraphs.

A cliffnotes version at the bottom would be very handy.

My A.D.D. is kickin' in right now

 

[Mali Blu]

How many miles did the suburban have on it??

 

[MikeJ]

I'd just walk away from the place

 

[ACES-70]

Sounds to me like he was underallowing on your trade and was wanting to work the 4 sqaure on you,, your van isnt worth what you think it is,, but its probly worth high 2s or low 3s,, as a trade,,,, sounds also like you got yourself a rookie salesperson, they should not be allowed to assist people until they are trained, but some dealers just turn the newbies loose, and it cost them lots of qualified buyers in the mean time,,, here is a tip,, work your deal without telling them you have a trade, that way you can get the lowest price on the vehicle you want to buy, then spring the trade on them,,,, before you go shopping take your trade to 2 or 3 good wholesale dealers in your area and get a buy figure, that way you will know what the trade is worth wholesale before you begin,, then work your deal from there,, use Kelley Blue book trade value as far as wat the Suburban is worth,, minus some now because of the gas krunch,, Kelly is a good balance between the actual auction reports and the black book, both of these tools of which dealers use to evaluate trades,,, so was the guy an idiot,,,,,,,, naaaaaaaa just some poor untrained guy trying to make a living,,,like the you and me.. Good Luck !!

 

[LateNight72]

Well, when my parent's traded in my Mom's '92 F*rd Aerostar, it had something like 145k on the clock (we traveled ALOT). Was cared for great, A/C was on the fritz though (replaced/fixed 3 times... )And had a split in the front passenger cloth seat. They gave us $4500 trade in on a $27,000 Conv. Van. (only 2 years old at the time.)

I think the $700 is a BS offer. My parent's retired the Conv. Van and bought a '01 Suburban last summer. The Toyota dealership that the Sub. was at didn't know squat either, but the price was good and we did our homework. Anyhow they offered us $1000 trade in for the Conv. Van. Granted it need A/C and Tranny work. (That is the 2nd trans in it to go).. Anyhow if we sold it privately we can get $5k for it now... We've still got it. Needs the trans and A/C Fixed prior to sale. I also get the oppritunity to test my painting skills when I paint the fiberglass top..

Anyhow, the moral to the story is f possible, sell the Astro privately and use that money to purchase the vehicle of your choice...

-Todd

 

[JWA]

According to kbb.com your Astro could be worth as much as $5350 if it is loaded and in excellent shape, HOWEVER I have never seen a dealership give anywhere's KBB trade-in value especially on first pass/offer. Also trade-in margin is a lot less on buying an older vehicle. Lastly with the incentives that have been going on for new cars lately used cars are flooding the market especially trucks and SUVs due to gas prices. The plus side for you is a 5-6 year old burb is way down on price. IMO you are probably gonna have to give the astro away to get into that old of a burb. You woud be better off selling it yourself and it may take a while. If you can step up to a 2k1 or better burb, they get better fuel mileage (5.3L, 6.0L) and have better power. Good Luck

 

[depley]

Been down that road soooo many times. Back in 90 I wanted to buy a Honda Accord (really wanted a Grand Prix but was out of my price range) Local Dealer is advertising just what I want for 12,500
Off I go assuming I would have to battle on my 86 Pontiac 6000SE value. So I figured out what wholesale was, went in figuring he was going to want 9000 difference and I was willing to go 8400 tops. ALl the guy wanted to do was fill out the paper work for a deal, I said look you can do what ever you want but I am not signing anything, I just want to know the difference with trade........ he himhaws around for 5 more minutes then finally writes a price down on a piece of paper slides it over say you will like this deal, we are looking to move cars for the months end.
I open up the paper and the price on it is...... get this.... 12,600 difference!!!!!! I was there to buy a car advertised at 12,500
I laughed got up and walked out told him that was all I needed to know. Get to my car and no freakin keys. Back in to the salesman, where are my keys, oh the sales manager has them
I go up ask for my keys, he says everything ok, I tell him just need my keys. Well can't we make a deal here today ho goes on, I said no, I just need my keys. They he keeps going, well what do we need to do to get you in this car blah blah blah. I looked straight at him and said you already insulted me once today, I just want my keys. This goes on for more than 30 minutes. I am getting really POed. Finally I look at him and tell him if I don't get my keys immediately I am throwing someone out the damn window. FINALLY I get my keys and off I go to a Pontiac Buick GMC dealer.
I get there they have GM rep cars, less than 6000 miles, I say ok take my car out tell me what we can do a deal for a 90 Olds Cutlass Supreme.
They take it out, come back and the salesman sits down, says, I guess all you want to know is how much difference writes it on a piece of paper and slides it over.
I look at it....... mind you this car is 4000 more expensive than the previous honda.
Price difference $7600 I am shocked, all I can say is does that include floor mats! lol
I bought that car drove it for 9 years, put a grand total of $250 in repairs in it over the 9 years (replaced alternator was the only problem it ever had). When I went to sell it I looked at the book of the ol Honda from before, its worth a whopping $300 more.
One reason I will never ever own a Honda, I don't car if they make the perfect car, they will never get my business.

 

[chevymad]

Local chevy dealer pulled the key trick with me too. I was looking at a 2 year old jeep wrangler. They went through all the paperwork stuff while a mechanic was checking out my truck for trade. Truck was a tricked out 80 lowered stepside. I'd just paid $6500 for and still owed $4500. Anyway, deal wasnt looking too bad till the guy came back with my trade in value. Walked in yelled across the room "Good NEWS! Looks like you got a nice trade, we'll give you $2500 for it!" I said good news? I owe more then that. Give me my keys. Then the fight for the keys was on. Finally got em back and walked out. Sold the truck later that year for more then I paid for it.

 

[68454SS]

Well, I got $5000 trade today for a '99 Burb. at a local lot that I'd been eyeing for a while. The Burb is a 1999, GMC SLT (fully loaded) I think the thing has every possible option, and they all WORK! I was a real PITA because I brought along a list of RPO codes and basically sat in the truck for like 20 minutes deciphering it. The sticker price was $10,500 and it has 105,000 miles on it. Towing package, heated leather, etc. etc. etc. . . I got an honest $5000 on my van, so left with $5500 owed (before interest). I was very happy. Also, some people have mentioned why don't you sell outright? Well I would rather pay taxes on a $5500 vehicle than a $10,500 vehicle. You get to deduct trade value when you go to the country clerk to pay the tax on the vehicle. Honestly I would not get much more than $6000 selling locally and dealing with all that hassle of advertising/showing ect . . . So it was worth it in this case to trade. All in all a good day. Driving home with it earlier it is like the difference between a Cadillac and a Pinto. That long wheelbase and heated leather can really make you sleepy!

 

[JWA]

Congratualtions. We don't have sale tax here and your angle would definitely make me consider the trade deal too. Is it a 1/2 ton with the vortec?? If so you have the notorious poor intake gaskets and if the truck leaks any coolant replace them. Good Luck

 

[68454SS]

Yup it's the 5.7L half ton. The engine has exemplary service records, and the intake gaskets have already been done. I know the ones in my Astro went at 76,000 and in the Lumina they went at 111,000. Luckily both times were caught before damage occured.

 

[71elkySS454]

Glad you found a Suburban you liked and made a trade to suit you 68454SS. As a retired Sales Manager at a Pontiac GMC store, let me add a little to this thread. I too, hate some of the tatics of the 'big city' dealerships. It seems they have enough traffic to get away with crap like that. One point on your trade. Lots of dealerships just don't want conversions vans at all. That may be the reason they lowballed you on the trade amount. Also, you can't go by 'kbb' when valueing a conversion van. Even though they cost more to buy new, they are worth less when you trade them in. Just a fact. Another tidbit. Most people overrate their trades in condition when they use kbb. They vast majority of trade ins are in 'average' condition. Thats what average means-average. Good is what most people thinks is excellent. And to be classified as exellecent a vehicle would have to be prolly under 10k and with a couple years old. You very rarely see an excellent or 'extra clean' trade. And some folks even would come in wanting 'retail' or 'private party' value for their trades. Sure we would be glad to give them that if they would pay sticker price for the new car. LOL!

Most of the big dealers train their sales staff to deal on payments. That works in some cases and some places. We simply taught our guys to deal on 'bottom line out the door'. Discount price of new car (or used) minus actual cash wholesale value plus TTT = out the door. Very simple. Then we could always work payment from there. It worked for us. Of course when dealing in GMC, Pontiac and Buicks you deal with a little high clientele than with some other brands. I really enjoyed my time in the auto sales industry and really hate to hear stories like this.

 

[NOZ34ME]

My biggest beef is that salespeople in general add no value to the process of buying a car- - -I hope I don't offend anyone here that sells cars, but the fact is, in my area, we get car "salespeople" that just don't know jack about what they're selling.

I would bet that most salespeople have not even pulled out an owners manual and read it on the cars they sell.

Another complaint I have is how much they think they deserve to make for doing me the service of selling me a car. I called a used car dealership to price a Nissan Sentra. There was a lot of sales "jibberish" including that the dealership needs to make at least $2K per sale, and "that's only fair". When she started telling me how rare these cars were to find, I finally told her that every car I've ever tried to buy is "really in demand", and if she thinks Nissan Sentras are hard to come by, she should check AutoTrader, since there were hundreds of them within a 100 mile radius. No reply.

 

[SS4speed]

68454SS,

Just a couple of tips from an old guy, which you may not need. If not, maybe this may help some other members.

1. Never, Never give your keys to the Sales person. Always give them a spare key and keep your in your pocket. Even if you have to go get a spare key made, before you go to the dealership.

2. As someone already said, "Do your homework" before talking to a Salesperson. Know exactly what you should get for your car on a trade in. Also know exactly what they will sell it for if they take it in trade. You can use this as a bargaining tool. Know what you can get a loan for (exactly what rate). Often, a person with bad credit cannot get a loan at the same rate that a person with good credit can. Know exactly what they pay for the new car and all options, plus what rebates they get. You can get this for informaiton for $15 bucks per car. You should have a ballpark of exactly what you want for payments, after the $600 destination fee, tax, title, reg, etc. This is your target and let the Salesperson know he needs to meet this to make the sale. I can do almost all my homework on the web, before going out to the dealer.

3. Never put any money down, until the entire deal is done. So, the Salesperson may say, well how about putting down a hundred buck to hold it, so it won't be sold while we work out a deal. Tell him/her, not a chance until the deal is complete.

4. Don't talk about a trade in (as someone suggested above), until your deal on the car is set in stone. Still, no money or sigs should be in place at this time. Keep you option to walk out the door always open. They may ask you to sign this or that, just for this or that reason, don't.

5. I always start at around $500 above dealer cost and work from there on the new car. Some models that number will work, on some models it won't.
All depends on the demand for that car.

6. Have them write up a preliminary sheet and have it include everything or a ballpart for all costs. Make sure you read every line, don't let them slip in the extended warranty, etc on you. This way you have a blueprint of what the final sheet should look like, that you have reviewed.

7. If you don't get exactly the price you want, but it's close, see if they will throw in undercoating, mud-flaps, or whatever free.

8. If the Salesperson keeps telling you that he/she need to talk to the boss. Ask if they can get someone who doesn't need to keep doing this, or ask them to call them on the phone. This is usually a way to see if they can outwait you, and often it works.

9. Don't be in a rush, I'll repeat this again, Don't be in a rush....
It this deal takes six hours, then let it take six hours, don't go looking at cars if you are limited on time. If you get in a rush, walk out and come back at a different time. If you are confused, get it all in writing and go home and read it over. Don't keep pushing the deal, when the numbers are not matching what you have written down beforehand.

10. Dont' switch cars during the deal, to save money. If it gets to that point, walk out and rething what your doing. And one more item, never go in to a dealership late in the day and try to purchase or trade in a car. This is never a good idea.

11. Last one, the last two days of Oct and Nov are sometimes the best times to purchase a new car (salesperson's quota).

Fred.

 

[Byfield]

I'm astounded about the keys issues. I d0on't know how anyone could argur for 30 min over getting their keys back. I'd have lasted about 3 min before I had the salesguy by the neck

 

[70isfine]

I'd rather drive an old beater than deal with a new car dealer. When i bought my 04 Dakota quad cab the saleman sat there and told me how it was a superior design because the bed is spotwelded to the frame.WTF? Bed welded onto the truck? Whatever. The worst hell is when you go into talk to the finance guy. They really try to pressure you and the paperwork is setup to confuse the heck out of you.They just throw papers in front of you to sign and act annoyed if you actually take the time to read what your signing.At one point i got so annoyed at the b.s. i got up and walked out. The finance guy and the salesman followed me into the parking lot trying to get me to come back in. I did the deal but still didnt feel to good about it.Then a week later the finance guy calls me up and says thers a problem with the paper work and i need to come back and sign new papers. I said, look ive been driving the truck a week.I thought we had a done deal,if we dont have a deal the truck will be in your lot at 8 am tomarrow morning with the keys in the ignition and you can keep it. He swore it was the same terms and he would fill up my tank for my troubles. I signed the papers again, and funny but the payments ended up $10 a month more when i actually got my payment book.I never did get that tank of gas. I will not buy a new car again unless i can pay cash.

 

[Cameano]

Back in late '95, I stopped at a dealer to check out the new '96 Monte Carlo, as the wife was bugging me about a new car. Took a Z-34 car for a spin around the block, but I wasn't ready to buy. Salesguy got into his pitch, offered me $500 for my '84 Cutlass Calais I had parked outside. I told him try again, as I didn't want to pay more than $15k for anything at the moment, and he's the one pushing the car on me. He offers $1k, then $1500, then $2k, and on and on. Finally, he scribbles down $10k, and I said "Now you're talkin', let's do this." The manager comes over, says "We don't drop $10k on the price of a new car." I said "And I don't get suckered into a bad deal everyday, either." Got my keys, and left. Funny, they wouldn't even escort me to the door, or even say goodbye.

 

[daveseitz]

I found my best approach is to set myself on kill mode, just one tick short of jail. Sales people pick up on the vibe and will treat you with kid gloves. I also found that if I'm ready to walk at any moment they know it.