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Im considering a 327 build

5K views 64 replies 18 participants last post by  200170 
#1 ·
considering building a high rpm race motor out of this nice old small journal 1967 327 . I've got some ideas that I'll lay out here and I'd like some good solid constructive advice/ criticism from guys that are more knowledgable than myself. I'll lay out what my idea is below and then whoever wants to....go ahead and let me hear it / have it lol
I'm currently building a 385 torky for street use that wont see more than about quarter after 6 that's gonna go in my 66 chevelle this spring .
But on with the 327 plan/idea .
This piece of history has been layin on the floor since 03 when I traded an 83 350 882 headed mexican block s h itster for it lol
It's been begging me ever since .
Im thinking maybe build this thing to twist 8300 rpm max 450 to 500 power at about 8 grand with a very long duration high lift cam and run a 456 gear with a stout th350. 13 to 1 or more CR
First off I'm thinking I need to build as much torque as I can because of the smaller inches.
How to do that is the big question along with the small cubes lol
So now I dont think I can put a 350 crank in this block seeing as it's small journal but correct me if I'm wrong .
I'm going to assume for the moment that I cant . So if that's the case I guess I'd be better to use the 327 crank that's in the block now for more torque versus putting a 283 crank in it and destroke it to a 302 . If I did the latter I could spin it to the moon but is there a way I can get more torque that way ??
Longer rods ?? Idk .
OR might I be better off with the 327 crank ?? And if that's the case the question of building torque still begs .
And how much can I would I should I bore this block given the stated goal ?
Then for up top maybe a small cc runner head ?? 180cc or less ??
Then I thought I'd run a true dual plane without a cut out in the divider with quite a bit of carb on top and maybe an anular booster. The smaller heads and the dual plane intake ought to help out with the torque I'm thinking but again I'm wide open for any suggestions or critique. I'll take anything you got other than " start with bigger inches "
Because this is what I got and it's a 67 and it's cool and I want to build it and thats my story and I'm stickin to it lol
 

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Discussion starter · #3 ·
Definitely wouldnt put a dual plane manifold on it if you’re going for 8000+ rpm. Since it sounds like a nostalgia/gasser style build put a tunnel ram on it
Sounds cool . I knew a guy who actually did that on one . I never saw it but he talked it up good lol. Said the car tore alot of other cars up
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Cool . Nice solid build. That one spun to 6400.
What you think I'd need to spin up higher like up to 8 grand ?
Bigger head ?
Longer cam ?
I get the point about the single plane
Anything you can think of to gain some more torque?
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
Couldn't you have the block drilled for splayed 4-bolt mains?
Main studs. Billet caps. High perf H-beam rods with ARPs. Forged 4340 crank (you may be able to get a small journal 350 made/ground - if desired). If not, I'd stick with the 3.25 stroke. Forged pistons 12.5 - 13:1 (if you have a steady source of race gas - you may be able to go as high as 14:1 with the right head/cam/timing). Definitely not use a dual-plane if you're looking to spin it to 7500-8000+ - may be able to get away with a torker, if hood clearance is an issue, otherwise I'd go with a Victor Jr. or the aforementioned tunnel ram.
You will be spending a bit of time conversing with your cam and head companies. 180cc seems WAY too small considering your desired rpm peak - but that would be for your cam grinder and head manufacturer to help you with.

Good luck - Sounds like a screamer....
I've got some skip white NKB heads that are 200 cc . Maybe I ought to use those.
I'll reach out to cam and head suppliers like your suggesting and see what they say . Thanks man
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
This block is goin to the machine shop to get checked out this coming week.
I was thinkin about makin it like a 302 high spinner with a 283 crank but idk maybe ill just do something more along these lines.
Not sure what would be faster.
That's kind of the deciding factor.
I've got some real nice 68 186 202 heads that would work real nice on that motor .
Your son had to love takin a truck with a motor like that in it !
Had to be the talk of the class lol
 
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Discussion starter · #20 ·
Recommend reading for a 327 is Bill Jenkins book
I had lots of references to that book when I built a bracket engine a few years ago.
One of the best engines I had, miss that sound shifting at 7200! Not quite the 8K+ your looking for but a bit more port volume and cam would have put it there.
It ran on 93 octane and had a best time of 11.63 @ 118 , 7200 rpm shift, in a 3000 lb 67Nova
330 CI, large journal forged crank in a 4 bolt 350 block.
Flat top KB piston, full float pins and Eagle rods. .020 negative to deck.
New GMPP vortec heads, hand ported, factory valve job, 1.94, 1.5 valves, cut for double springs and screw in studs, milled .020. Felpro .015 shim gasket.
Comp XE282S tight lash solid flat tappet, advanced 2deg
650 mighty Demon, 1/2” Wilson tapered spacer on a RPM Air gap, Super Victor slowed the car down.
Locked out MSD @32 degrees
View attachment 703381

Build it!! View attachment 703336
Look what they're getting for this book
 

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Discussion starter · #21 ·
This block is goin to the machine shop to get checked out this coming week.
I was thinkin about makin it like a 302 high spinner with a 283 crank but idk maybe ill just do something more along these lines.
Not sure what would be faster.
That's kind of the deciding factor.
I've got some real nice 68 186 202 heads that would work real nice on that motor .
Your son had to love takin a truck with a motor like that in it !
Had to be the talk of the class lol
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
Oh I don't know a dual plane is that bad on a 302, Mans's F/S 69 Z /28 was in the tens with the factory dual plane intake, can't be too bad.
Mans ??
Whose that ?
Man I brought them 186 heads i got over to machine shop today. My guy there said they're some of the best heads from back in the day. As good as 461x but because they're 68 or 68 they've got the holes for accessories unlike thier older counterparts and he looked them over and also said someone had extensively ported them runners and all .
Not even sure where I got em lol
So much stuff around.
Now I just gotta hope they pass the no crack test.
Them would go nice on the 327 .
I just gotta figure out what if I should stick with original crank and bore the motor or if I should put a stroker crank in it . Idk
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
The 327/350 engine is famous for a reason. Grumpy Jenkins beat the 1966 Hemi with his L79 Nova. The 327/375 was the most powerful small block engine in factory trim. I love mine.
I just seen that not 5 minutes ago on the net !
Jenkins beatin the hemi
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
Randy Mans is a guy I went to high school with and no one wanted to race him wit his 66 Chevelle. After we graduated he bought one of the 69 Z/28's from a guy we all knew and started to race it. The car was one of the fastest F/Stockers in the nation at one time. He sold it and now races the old owner of the track I go to Formula Firebird and this car goes 142mph + Randy's cars are super fast, he also know suspension better than anyone I have ever known and is a big shock rebuilder for a lot of the racers. Oh ya he bought back that 69Z and turned it back into a street car again with a 383 SBC but I would still not want to race him with that either.
Sounds like the "man " lol
68 z28 is a 302 ain't it ?
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
Yes '68's had 302's also, the '67's were small journal cranks the 68-69's were large journal with the bigger 3/8" rods. Yes he was known as Randy the "Man". His son races the Super Stocker they have also, kid is pretty deadly in competition.
Yeah I did know the the 302 waa a large journal like the 350 .
My block is a 67 small journal.
Whats would be the dif in performance with a 283 crank in the small journal block versus a real deal large journal 302 ?
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
I was reading that Grumpy Jenkins said the small journal L79 revved quicker than the large journal 68 L79 like mine. He attributed it to the extra drag from the larger bearing surface. I would think weight would be a factor but the didn't mention that.
I'm debatin whether to go 283 crank on this.
I think that late 69 302 wiped out any stock SB on the planet at the time.
Course thats the large journal 302 .
350 block .
The 67 small journal is what I'm working with here .
Whichever way I go I want to run period stock like components .
I want to silence this local sbf guy lol
 
Discussion starter · #41 ·
That all sounds good .
What I would consider doin different is the heads though. These 186 heads i got are pretty much the shit for anything from 68 to 72 . 302's LT1's ... plus these heads I got have been worked over man. Wouldn't surprise me if runners were 190 or better now . Plus it's just cooler with the real deal stuff on it . Maybe put a late 60's vet intake on it or somethin.
What do you mean when you say
L79 pistons (don't go higher ) ?
 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
Al, you could use your 186 heads with work but they will never perform like the AFR's. If you want to use a nostalgia cam I would recommend the 70 LT1 178 cam that will spin at 6500 rpm or the 3030 cam that was used in the 327/365 or the 375 FI engine that made 20 more hp over my L79 cam plus another 500 rpm. You can also use the Z28 intake, that was a great intake. I am only guessing but not using the AFR's or a new Solid roller cam you are probably leaving the better part of 50hp on the table and if you wanna smoke your buddy you might need that...
Well duh lol. I certainly knew that much .
Aff versus Iron camel hump. Final score
103 to 87 lol
I do like the sound of that 3030 cam .
That 3030 a solid Tappet cam?
If you look earlier in the thread you'll see where Jones chimed in and posted a 327 he built. He got i think 446 hp and a pretty steady 370 torque for a pretty good spread .
I gotta look again but I think he went mostly stock on top.
If im gonna cheat I'm gonna cheat down low where they can't see it lol
Keep the top lookin straight
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
He's an sbF guy not an sbc guy ha ha
Ok so what about a z28 aluminum intake ?
and you're sayin go solid roller ?
I'd do that i guess but I want to use the 186 heads
 
Discussion starter · #48 ·
Yeah I want to ride the cusp .
Make it look as stock as possible but I wouldn't mind runnin 12 or 13 compression.
A good bullshiter motor is what I want .
"Its a 327...look "
But then they don't know whats happnin down low. I'm a new Englander bill lol
A half Italian half German Connecticut kid raised by a car guy through and through.
Dif with him though was he was in the racing and shit up until he was only mid late 20's and that was it . Then he was a wholesaler for years . EVERYTHING was an angle with that guy lol he's gone now but anyway that's what I come from .miss that guy alot .

Hey what about a tunnel Ram??
Then again they can look intimidating. Sort of give up the game that way . They might not wanna race
 
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