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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone! I had a bad connector that held 3 wires together. I've been having trouble starting my car and when I was turning the ignition on I saw a little smoke from these wires. I would like to know if anybody could identify what these wires were for? My car wouldn't start until I reconnected them. They go through a long black tube that is bolted to the back of the wall behind the engine. I have a picture I can E-Mail to you to help with the ID. I have a 1970 Chevelle SS, with a 396/350HP, and a Holly Carb. The one I am most curious about is a white fabric wire..thanks...Dangee
 

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Sounds like the wires that go to the starter solenoid
They go through conduit to protect them from the exaust manifold

The large purple from neutral safety switch goes to "S" terminal (small terminal closest to block)
Yellow wire from coil "+" terminal goes to "R" terminal on soleniod (other small terminal) it by passes 12 volts to the coil's positive terminal when cranking
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for your quick reply. I rechecked the wires you described...the yellow wire seems to go to the starter solenoid, the large purple wire goes from the fuse box & to the solenoid, and the white fabric wire goes to the fuse box. The orange wire goes to the fuse box and the pink wire goes to the distributor.

The plastic connector fried once already...so I respliced them and put another connector on and it looks like it is starting to melt. I must have a short somewhere, but how do I know which one? Thanks...Dangee
 

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OK, now I realize you were talking about the wire gutter on the firewall, not the metal conduit by the starter

I don't have a 70 wiring diagram but I see you have HEI distributor so the white fabric covered wire shouldn't even be connected as it's the old resistive wire that originally fed the plus side of the coil with reduced voltage

Also since it's been converted to HEI you no longer need the yellow bypass wire that originally went from the starter solenoid's "R" terminal to the plus side of the coil
It originally was to supply full 12 volts to the old coil during the "CRANKING" of the starter




Usually when a wire gets hot at a splice or connection it's caused by a poor connection which generates heat, it's not really called a "short"

I would start by making sure I had a good wire source from the fuse panel that is hot when the ignition switch is in both the "ON" and the "START" positions but not hot when in the "ACC" position and tape off the white cloth covered wire and the yellow bypass wire then make sure all splices are good

I think that orange wire goes to the heater blower motor so it wouldn't have anything to do with the car starting

where does the brown wire that is all coiled up go ?

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/tempDC_dsmith2.jpg
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/tempDC_dsmith3.jpg


[This message has been edited by Dean (edited 05-05-2002).]
 

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Orange wire is the heater fan wire if this is a non A/C car. Maybe it's the way I'm looking at the picture but:
I see a small blackish wire coming into the front plug on the HEI. What is on that line?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Everybody! Thanks for your assistance Dean with the photos. Like they say "a picture is worth a thousand words".

The Orange wire should be the heater fan wire since this is a non A/C car(thanks). I'll tape off the white cloth covered wire and the yellow bypass wire then make sure all splices are good.

I have to wait to jack up the car to get under and see if the yellow wire is still connected to the starter solenoid's "R" terminal. If it is should I remove it?

Not sure just yet where the brown wire that is all coiled up goes to..should know more later.

I will also try to find out about the small blackish wire coming into the front plug on the HEI. Will try to find out what is on that line.

I'll let you know how things go..Dangee
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
John--that small blackish wire you refer to..are you looking at the black wire that comes from the brown tab next to the white tab? If you are, it's spliced to the coiled up brown wire that Dean asked about and it goes to the fuse box.

I removed the plastic covers over the wires to see where they go etc. and do I ever have a mess! The orange heater wire has been spliced together at least 3 times that I can see right now.

Dean--you wrote
"I don't have a 70 wiring diagram but I see you have HEI distributor so the white fabric covered wire shouldn't even be connected as it's the old resistive wire that originally fed the plus side of the coil with reduced voltage

Also since it's been converted to HEI you no longer need the yellow bypass wire that originally went from the starter solenoid's "R" terminal to the plus side of the coil. It originally was to supply full 12 volts to the old coil during the
CRANKING of the starter.

I was having trouble starting the car...until I spliced together the white fabric wire with the yellow wire and the pink wire. If I tape off the white wire and the yellow wire will the pink wire start the car? Exactly what wires to I need connected to a HEI in order to start the car?

Where can I find a 1970 wiring diagram? I see so many splices in all the wires that I'm concerned that I may need to purchase a whole new engine harness. What do you think? Dangee


[This message has been edited by DSmith52 (edited 05-07-2002).]
 

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I'm not sure where to tell you to get a 70 diagram but it won't help with the HEI as I'm sure you know already

For the HEI you just need a 12 volt power source to the "BAT" terminal on the cap that is hot when the ignition switch is in the "ON" and "START" positions

What I did was;

I replaced the resistive cloth covered wire down to the bulk head connector with a 14 gauge stranded wire and rewraped the harness

You can use any source that is not hot when the ignition is in the "OFF" or "ACCY" positions

The "ACCY" position is not hot during "cranking" ("START" position)




[This message has been edited by Dean (edited 05-07-2002).]
 

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I only questioned the blackish wire because it looks like it goes to the HEI B+ input connector. Also looks like a pink wire goes into that connector. If I understand things correctly, you are having problems in this area. Like Dean says, there should only be one wire in this connector from a switched source.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The plastic connector fried once already...so I respliced them and put another connector on and it looks like it is starting to melt.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't like using scotchlok type connectors. I have seen the the little spade which penetrates the insulation cut through several wire strands as well causing the wiring to overheat because it is no longer of sufficient gauge to carry the load. I have also seen those type connectors fail because they do not make a solid connection, in effect causing the wire to arc on itself and overheat. IMHO you are better off using a good crimp or solder on connector.

------------------
Rod

67 396
SS clone

Daddy's Red Car
 

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HEI distributors are real current suckers, according to info I have. I find it's best to run a #10 wire to a relay and then to the HEI and then use the original distributor wire (resistive or not, doesn't matter) to turn the relay on. As someone else said, there's no need for the starter "r" terminal to distributor wire any more.

Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok guys, I was hoping I wouldn't have to tell you this, but you are dealing with a 50 year old woman here. I am the middleman writing to you and then I relay your answers to my husband who tries to figure out you have said.

This is our very first classic. My husband had a 1970 Chevelle when we met and when we saw this one we fell in love all over again.

Here is the whole story...
I have a 1970 Chevelle SS that is driving me crazy! I've taken it to 2 different mechanics and $800.00 later I'm still having the same problem..one day the car starts up and runs fine, a week later the car either starts up hard or doesn't start at all. If it does start and I let it run awhile when I put it in gear it stalls immediately. Then it starts right up..put in gear...stalls. I drove it all around one day and stopped in a dairy queen for an icecream and it would'nt start up again. The engine turns over but won't catch. Had to have it towed in..they replaced the ignition coil, control module, distributor cap, distrib rotor, o-ring, and fuel hose.

We saw some bad wires spliced together like I mentioned above. You would think that the 2 mechanics would have seen these right off since one of the wires was the pink one connected to the distributor.

My husband is not mechanically inclined when it comes to wiring. He recently replaced the fuel pump and fuel filter as was suggested by your answers.

So this is what we have done according to your reply. We disconnected the three wires that were spliced together-the yellow-the pink-the white cloth covered one. We taped up the yellow bypass wire. Then we connected the pink wire from the distributor with the white cloth covered resitive wire and started up the car. Is this OK or will it cause a problem???? It runs rough and takes a while to warm up to the proper RPM.

Dean you said to:I would start by making sure I had a good wire source from the fuse panel that is hot when the ignition switch is in both the "ON" and the "START" positions but not hot when in the "ACC" position and tape off the white cloth covered wire and the yellow bypass wire then make sure all splices are good.

We don't quite grasp what you mean here. What do you mean by having a good wire source from the fuse panel that is hot. How do we know if it is hot? What do we need to test it?

Dean you suggested we do this:What I did was:

I replaced the resistive cloth covered wire down to the bulk head connector with a 14 gauge stranded wire and rewraped the harness

What and where is a bulk head connector?

You can use any source that is not hot when the ignition is in the "OFF" or "ACCY" positions.

How do we test to see what is hot?

You wanted to know where the coiled up brown wire went..originally I said it went to the fuse box, but after looking closer I see that it is spliced to the black wire coming from the brown plug on the distributor and it goes into the firewall panel...could be the tach?

Dean you said:For the HEI you just need a 12 volt power source to the "BAT" terminal on the cap that is hot when the ignition switch is in the "ON" and "START" positions. What or where is the "BAT" terminal? How do I test it to see if it is hot. Shouldn't this have been wired properly by the mechanics when they replaced the distributor?

John, you said:I only questioned the blackish wire because it looks like it goes to the HEI B+ input connector. Also looks like a pink wire goes into that connector. If I understand things correctly, you are having problems in this area. Like Dean says, there should only be one wire in this connector from a switched source.

Both the black wire and the pink wire go into the brown plug you see in the picture. Could the black wire which is spliced with the brown coiled up wire be for the tach? If so, would it also be connected with the pink wire?

Toml you wrote: HEI distributors are real current suckers, according to info I have. I find it's best to run a #10 wire to a relay and then to the HEI and then use the original distributor wire (resistive or not, doesn't matter) to turn the relay on. As someone else said, there's no need for the starter "r" terminal to distributor wire any more.

What and where is a relay?

Does anybody have a picture to explain any of the above suggestions? Can anybody take digital pictures of their engine showing the wiring like I did? Or does anybody have a 1970 wiring diagram they can e-mail me at [email protected]?

We appreciate all your help, but if you can explain things in layman terms it would really help us...Thanks...Dangee




[This message has been edited by DSmith52 (edited 05-08-2002).]
 

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Uh-oh Dean
We have been chatting with ladies again. Mine's Ok with that, how about yours?
My opinion. A schematic won't help because the wiring in this area has been modified. If you do want a basic, original wiring schematic, the Haynes Chevelle book has one. This book can be found at most chain auto stores such as Pep Boys. It is book number 625.
I'll let Dean chime in because he does the talking better. If it was me I would replace the wire to the distributor and get rid of the spliced stuff.
Dean, does Ground Up sell the HEI mod wire or do I dig around in the morning?
This may not cure the hard start problem, but at least it moves away from messy wires.
 

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Hope you aren't typing Dean. Trying to save you the time.

"a week later the car either starts up hard or doesn't start at all. If it does start and I let it run awhile when I put it in gear it stalls immediately. Then it starts right up..put in gear...stalls."

This is not symptomatic with an electrical problem. More likely timing or carburetor. Around here it's about $45.00 to get a car hooked up an engine analyzer. Eliminates the guesswork.

"You would think that the 2 mechanics would have seen these right off since one of the wires was the pink one connected to the distributor."

Just replace the HEI pink with a new one. Year One sells these. Sorry I don't have their address at the moment.

"Then we connected the pink wire from the distributor with the white cloth covered resitive wire and started up the car. Is this OK or will it cause a problem????"

No, just run a new pink wire back to the fuse block

"We don't quite grasp what you mean here. What do you mean by having a good wire source from the fuse panel that is hot. How do we know if it is hot? What do we need to test it?"

There are metal spade terminals on the fuseblock. With a meter or test light, measure between these and a good ground. You will see one that has no 12 volts with the key off but has 12 volts with the key on. Dean suggested turning the key also to the accessory position to make sure you have no power in this position.

"I replaced the resistive cloth covered wire down to the bulk head connector with a 14 gauge stranded wire and rewraped the harness. What and where is a bulk head connector?"

This is just an idea. This is not needed if the pink wire is run to the fuseblock.

"You can use any source that is not hot when the ignition is in the "OFF" or "ACCY" positions. How do we test to see what is hot?"

Use a meter or test light on the fuseblock as stated above.

"You wanted to know where the coiled up brown wire went..originally I said it went to the fuse box, but after looking closer I see that it is spliced to the black wire coming from the brown plug on the distributor and it goes into the firewall panel...could be the tach?"

Good possibility. However, it is not needed to run the car. First straighten out the other problems an then worry about hooking this up.

"Dean you said:For the HEI you just need a 12 volt power source to the "BAT" terminal on the cap that is hot when the ignition switch is in the "ON" and "START" positions. What or where is the "BAT" terminal? How do I test it to see if it is hot. Shouldn't this have been wired properly by the mechanics when they replaced the distributor?"

BAT is the front outer HEI terminal. The one that the pink wire goes to. It appears to have a brownish damaged connector. Suggesting a new lead some one of the suppliers.

"John, you said:I only questioned the blackish wire because it looks like it goes to the HEI B+ input connector. Also looks like a pink wire goes into that connector. If I understand things correctly, you are having problems in this area. Like Dean says, there should only be one wire in this connector from a switched source."

Dean's correct. There should only be the pink wire. Leave the black or brown wires disconnected until it is determined what the are. If neither go to an after market carburetor choke, then neither are needed at the moment.

"What and where is a relay?"

This is a good idea but not needed at the moment. Just run a new wire to the fuseblock.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hi John! Thank you for your reply.

You wrote:"This is not symptomatic with an electrical problem. More likely timing or carburetor. Around here it's about $45.00 to get a car hooked up an engine analyzer. Eliminates the guesswork."

We thought the same thing. Would you believe that we asked both mechanics to give us a tune up and check out the carb? One said that he couldn't get all the spark plugs out because we have very large headers on the car and that he didn't have the proper tool to reach them..he did pull out the front plug and said it looked good! The other one said he "tweaked the choke" and it should be fine now. Ha!

I will replace the pink wire with a new one..I already know about Year One. Thanks.

You said the BAT is the front outer HEI terminal. The one that the pink wire goes to. It appears to have a brownish damaged connector. Suggesting a new lead some one of the suppliers.
Looking at the photo there are two connectors the brown one on the left that the pink and brown wire are connected to and the white one on the right. Are you saying that they should both be white?

Thanks for simplifying everything. I thank you, my husband thanks you, and I'm sure Dean thanks you!
 

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For now, you only need to be concerned about the one marked "BAT" as it is what feeds 12 volt power to the coil

Like John said, use a test light at the fuse panel and find a terminal that lights the test light bright only when the key is in the "ON" and "START" positions

In fact I think I would just disconnect the "TACH" wire for now at least until you get the car running good then you can hook the Tach back up and see what happens

The relay mentioned is not needed at all and would just add to the confusion and be a source for more problems in the future

Sounds to me like you need to find another mechanic if he can't change spark plugs just because the car has headers plus I can't believe any good mechanic would leave that wiring mess and not clean it up

Good luck !

BTW, I assume you do know that "BAT" and "TACH" are marked on top of the dist cap



[This message has been edited by Dean (edited 05-09-2002).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hi Dean! Thank you for your reply.
"Sounds to me like you need to find another mechanic if he can't change spark plugs just because the car has headers"

You got that right. Would any of you guys happen to live near the tiny town of Bellevue,OH?

"plus I can't believe any good mechanic would leave that wiring mess and not clean it up"

Tell me about it!

"BTW, I assume you do know that "BAT" and "TACH" are marked on top of the dist
cap" Yeah, we do thanks!

We will keep you informed of our progress..Dangee
 

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Just wanted to show where (on the fuse block) you can connect the 12 V supply for the dist BAT connection. Red arrow IGN terminal.

If you haven't ordered a wire for this yet I can make one for you cheep. E-mail if your interrested.
 
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