[Jskinn27]

Hey everyone,

mom building a 69 malibu with my pops whose been a mechanic for over 30 years. I’m a total newb and I’m learning as much as I can. I purchased two 454 blocks that were out of motor homes for a great price. Ones a 4 bolt main, the other is a 2 bolt main. I’m wondering how far ~5k can get me HP wise? I’d like fuel injection and 10:1 compression as I’ll use pump gas. The car will be street driven and I’d like some good get-up-and-go. I’d like at least 500hp.
Furthermore, I bought a 71 Monte Carlo for parts (Disc brakes, 12 bolt rear end, bucket seats and center console shift). The trans will be a th400 bulletproofed.
Also, any recommendations on parts I should get for the engine? I’m a newb when it comes to building engines.

 

[68Chevele]

My peanut port 461 BBC cost way less than 5K to build, but I do but a lot of used parts and run them, but they work.

 

[Malibu ss 64]

Just empty blocks or crank, rods and heads?

 

[427L88]

One big deal is to get to 10:1. It will require new pistons with domes OR the use of early closed chamber heads. They have smaller combustion chambers, so they get more squeeze. Yet they'll only get you to 9:1 or so.

So there ya go, KB hypereutectic pistons are maybe $500 a set. Rings , bearings, another $250.

First off, let's get to Marcus' question, complete assemblies? The 2 v 4 bolt matters not for this app, what matters is which core is the better donor. Pop the heads off, check the bores. Pop off #1 rod bearing and #1 main and check condition of the bearings. You'll be replacing them anyway, but we seek the "prettier" of the two, i.e., the one that will clean up better.

Also, I would check the heads/blocks for core shift and use the better castings.

Here, enjoy a true BBC gurus take ( PS you have what Mark would consider virgins) :

 

[William Hennke]

Depends on what you want. I just built a pretty decent 467 with Brodix heads. It was new from intake to pan, balancer to flywheel. You will spend more than $5000 for that. I hope you have a good machine shop...

Cost vs Hassle, Was it worth it?

Now that I have my new 467 running, I have went over the cost of building it. What I found out is except for the aluminum heads and a few other differences I could have had 467 built complete by a reputable builder that several here have used, for a little less money. I'm not trying to compare...

www.chevelles.com

 

[Lew540]

Go with a carburator first that will be way cheaper to start with since you are on a tight budget. You can use those savings to get other stuff that may be more of a priority.

 

[Ialone]

Just answering the initial thread topic title:
"How far will 5,000$ get you?" Depends on what girl you approach! HAHA Just kidding, I'll show myself out.

 

[427L88]

Hahaha, hey for a poo' boy like me 5G gets a bevy of quail for a few days! IN MY DREAMS!

 

[cstraub]

If we can be of help let us know. We are 1 stop shopping from carb to pan... www.straubtechnologies.com

 

[Jskinn27]

I’ve got heads, rods and crank, but not sure if the condition of them. Haven’t taken them to a machine shop, nor have I messed with the parts yet. I’m not quite ready for the engine, just trying to plan some stuff out.

 

[Jskinn27]

 

[Brutledge]

First post i know, ill hit the newb thread.

this is the quick easy answer that has often proven itself to me to be the best way to go sometimes,

sell whatever you have in the way of engine right now, keep the accessories, ignition, waterpump etc youll need, add whatever you get for the rest to your 5k and hit up mark from vortecpro, he will get you just over 500hp for just under 6k, or just over 600hp for just under 7k...
I almost vomited when i saw how affordable his packages are.. im going that route for my next project (not a chevelle)

Simply place order, hide under some coats till the engine arrives, install engine, bobs your aunties cousins casual fling on the side.

if youre looking to do as much as you can on the engine to learn, it may cost more in the long run than this, and take longer..
dont feel too bad if you go this route that you may not learn as much as you could doing it yourself with pops either, theres still plenty more on the car mechanically you can learn on with pop getting the car ready while waiting for the engine

 

[Georgia69]

If you only have $5,000 to spend, there's way better places to spend it than on fuel injection. Heck if you had $15,000 there's better places to spend it than fuel injection.

 

[Bronze68]

sell whatever you have in the way of engine right now, keep the accessories, ignition, waterpump etc youll need, add whatever you get for the rest to your 5k and hit up mark from vortecpro, he will get you just over 500hp for just under 6k, or just over 600hp for just under 7k...

If you only have $5,000 to spend, there's way better places to spend it than on fuel injection.

Absolutely. Push to open your budget to $6000 or so, hold with a carb for a couple of years, and you'll be THRILLED with the engine you can get from Mark Jones (Vortecpro).

 

[HeloCrewChief]

Some good advice here. I would try and sell all that stuff off and put the money towards an engine by Mark. I think you will be money ahead by doing this for several reasons. Heck, you may pay to get the block magnafluxed and find it is junk anyway. I installed fuel injection on my Chevelle (Fast EZ EFI) and I hate it. There are many threads on people like me that are constantly trying to get it to run correctly with fuel injection. A properly tuned carburetor is much better in my opinion, unless going with a more expensive set up like edelbrock or a factory system on a LS engine.

 

[japete92]

Hey everyone,

mom building a 69 malibu with my pops whose been a mechanic for over 30 years. I’m a total newb and I’m learning as much as I can. I purchased two 454 blocks that were out of motor homes for a great price. Ones a 4 bolt main, the other is a 2 bolt main. I’m wondering how far ~5k can get me HP wise? I’d like fuel injection and 10:1 compression as I’ll use pump gas. The car will be street driven and I’d like some good get-up-and-go. I’d like at least 500hp.
Furthermore, I bought a 71 Monte Carlo for parts (Disc brakes, 12 bolt rear end, bucket seats and center console shift). The trans will be a th400 bulletproofed.
Also, any recommendations on parts I should get for the engine? I’m a newb when it comes to building engines.

NOT being critical at all, but there likely are more cost effective solutions to the "...I d like some good get-up-an-go.." goal then what you have been considering.

IF "...good get-up-and-go..." for you would be the acceleration provided by the BB cars from the muscle car era (late 60s), 500 hp would not be the factor I would focus on. Actually, I (me personally) would not focus on HP at all.

Almost all of the muscle cars had some things in common. Over 400 lb ft of torque (max at about 3800 rpm), 4 speed manual transmissions, mid to low ratio rear ends, and max hp between 350 and 400 (at approx 5k rpm). That combination is (in my opinion) ideal for any era's street use.

Because you are contemplating a th400 transmission (3 forward gears), you won't get the 4 speeds' performance, but you won't be far behind. BUT, low end torque would be where I would focus. AND if I keep my goal to around 425-450 lb ft (at about 3800 rpm), a sbc (383) will easily get there. Rear end ratio is a factor but any mid to low range (approx 3.5:1 or so) should provide 'acceleration' you desire.

Why the sbc? IF the car currently has a sb, the money save by NOT going to the BB could be added to the engine budget. AND there are MANY more options of varying prices/configurations to choose from. Finding/choosing one within your budget may be easier.

One could start with a brand new 350 cu in, 4 bolt main, one piece rear seal, base block. Like this:

Chevrolet Performance 10105123 Chevrolet Performance Small Block Bare Engine Blocks | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Chevrolet Performance Small Block Bare Engine Blocks with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Engines, Bare Blocks at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

One could save money buying a used block. LOTS of not expensive alternatives.

If working with your Pops building an engine is a goal (a VERY admirable one), I would still consider the sbc (383) because parts availability. Keeping the max rpm at around 5200 rpm will allow using parts more designed for reliability than performance. AND easily get 450 ish lb-ft of low end torque (hp will fall out somewhere over 400).

Hp = Torque x rpm/5252. So, 450 x 5000/5252 = 428 hp.

Figure out what other parts you want/need and see where that fits into your budget/build strategy.

Beefing up the th400? ONLY if you intend to launch the car out of the 'hole' a la drag racing. If you only want to 'smoke some tires', just use 'smaller' tires that will break loose before the parts break. Put the saved money into the engine budget (tranny and tires).

Simply options for your consideration.

Pete

 

[RickyHill]

I would say, sell what you have and add those dollars to the 5000 you budgeted and order a 5700 motor from vortec pro. Be over 500 horsepower and run great.

RH

 

[Capt Casey]

My advice having just done an engine I thought was an easy rebuild and upgrade...it was a L79 327 small block is...get as much money together as you can for any engine you decide to build...reason is once you open them up they are always a surprise...whether it is one that is totally rebuildable with minor machining or one where the bearing is spun and the cam is ceased and the crank is gouged...If they can be machined How much extra is that...? and then when you start to buy the parts how do you decide when to go for the less expensive parts because the budget is running low due to machining and extras that always show up....
If you are lucky you have ONE good engine to start with perhaps the one that is in the car....? is it running?
You need cash to start and the block and heads are the place to start then crank cam bearings pistons etc working your way out...Meat and potatoes my friend...worry about the gravy like Fuel injection later...once you have it running...who knows you may not ending up getting it...
But what many are telling you is that Small blocks now can and will give you the HP and torque and are less expensive to build than a big block...
I wanted a big block when my small block died 30 years ago LOL I am glad I stayed SB and did the engine that works and stayed true to what the car had and needed for my needs.
Big blocks are great don't get me wrong but they are a different breed for what you may need. and from that collection of parts you could be sitting on a small pile of extra cash to rebuild an engine and then some....
So do your homework and talk to a good recommend shop where the person was happy with the work done...read the reviews and ask the questions...? They will answer you and should give you the time of day when doing so. If they don't seem interested walk....away...
There are many threads here where the machine work was not done correctly and there were many trips back and forth to get it done right and then it stall left a bad taste in the owners mouth due to the money...the shop got it and the work was not done to the correct spec or there was a flaw in the work...This will always cost more than your budget will allow for...If they say 5K get it in writing because it can mean 8-10 K when completed.

 

[japete92]

NOT being critical at all, but there likely are more cost effective solutions to the "...I d like some good get-up-an-go.." goal then what you have been considering.

IF "...good get-up-and-go..." for you would be the acceleration provided by the BB cars from the muscle car era (late 60s), 500 hp would not be the factor I would focus on. Actually, I (me personally) would not focus on HP at all.

Almost all of the muscle cars had some things in common. Over 400 lb ft of torque (max at about 3800 rpm), 4 speed manual transmissions, mid to low ratio rear ends, and max hp between 350 and 400 (at approx 5k rpm). That combination is (in my opinion) ideal for any era's street use.

Because you are contemplating a th400 transmission (3 forward gears), you won't get the 4 speeds' performance, but you won't be far behind. BUT, low end torque would be where I would focus. AND if I keep my goal to around 425-450 lb ft (at about 3800 rpm), a sbc (383) will easily get there. Rear end ratio is a factor but any mid to low range (approx 3.5:1 or so) should provide 'acceleration' you desire.

Why the sbc? IF the car currently has a sb, the money save by NOT going to the BB could be added to the engine budget. AND there are MANY more options of varying prices/configurations to choose from. Finding/choosing one within your budget may be easier.

One could start with a brand new 350 cu in, 4 bolt main, one piece rear seal, base block. Like this:

Chevrolet Performance 10105123 Chevrolet Performance Small Block Bare Engine Blocks | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Chevrolet Performance Small Block Bare Engine Blocks with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Engines, Bare Blocks at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

One could save money buying a used block. LOTS of not expensive alternatives.

If working with your Pops building an engine is a goal (a VERY admirable one), I would still consider the sbc (383) because parts availability. Keeping the max rpm at around 5200 rpm will allow using parts more designed for reliability than performance. AND easily get 450 ish lb-ft of low end torque (hp will fall out somewhere over 400).

Hp = Torque x rpm/5252. So, 450 x 5000/5252 = 428 hp.

Figure out what other parts you want/need and see where that fits into your budget/build strategy.

Beefing up the th400? ONLY if you intend to launch the car out of the 'hole' a la drag racing. If you only want to 'smoke some tires', just use 'smaller' tires that will break loose before the parts break. Put the saved money into the engine budget (tranny and tires).

Simply options for your consideration.

Pete

I'm going to correct the Hp calc example I posted previously.

IF torque max is at 3800 rpm (or so) it tails off some as rpm's rise. By about 5200 rpm torque will be typically be about 400 lb ft (not the 450 I used in the example).

So ... (making the math simple by using rpm at 5252):

Hp = torque x rpm/5252

400 (lb ft) x 5252 rpm/5252 = 400 hp

Pete

 

[Lew540]

My assumptions here for my response - is that this is a longer term hold car and that you would continue to grow/modify into it over time. Here is another idea borrow or save up some money (not too much but something you can handle/afford) and get what you want in a timely and reasonable fashion. Here is an example and this can apply to a motor/other too. I bought my car in 1980 for like $800 and it was a mess. If I had taken that money and got a car loan for $1,200 I would have gotten a lot nicer car for $2,000 and I would have saved money in the long run because I probably spent $3,000 doing stuff to get to where I would have been with a $2,000 car (so $3,800 vs $2,000 not good). Even with the car loan interest of a few hundred $ I was still way behind and I would have gotten the stuff done right away vs years. Of course now, 40 years later, I have lost track of how much money and time I have in car. This stuff usually does not just stop with just the engine. When you do stuff like this (454 BBC) the trans, exhaust, rear, wheels/tires etc. all come into play and you get the "while I am here I should also do this because if I don't it will break/be incorrect or cost me twice as much to go back in and fix it". The second thing is the additional $$$s may help you finish in a timely fashion. In other words it gets the car done quicker so you can enjoy it here and now and not look at it in the garage for months which then become years. Stay focused and spend money on the stuff that gives you the best bang for buck (and fuel injection in this situation is not it). Keep the car running as much as possible, you will have some down time moments but being able to get in the car turn the key and drive it is a great motivator. Put a budget together and see what you think you can swing and the cost of stuff and what needs to be done by others. At the end of the day if you think you will spend $7,000 over a 2-3 year period try to figure out how to get it done quicker because if the car sits too long you can loose interest. The $5,000 is a good target but take a look and see if that can do it - remember it does not stop at the engine. Look what happened to me, I knew (with $800 PP) I was going to spend money fixing my car up and I would have been better off starting from a different place. When you buy used parts beware and make sure its what you want and 3 of the same things or small variants does not help you when you have a limited budget. You have a lot guys on here who were once in your shoes and can tell you some of the pitfalls and good ideas to help with your project.