[jbrockman]

Hey everyone- I have the front clip off and have finished rewiring the front harmess... Since the fenders are off I grounded the neg battery to alternator bracket and them to radiator support where the lights are grounded...

My question is when I connected the battery the right turn signal turned on and stayed on....( key was off)..

Does the fact that I grounded it to the same ground as lights rather than fender caused this???


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[Finally]

I would say no. Grounded to the fender, grounded to the rad support should be the same if the front clip were on, they're bolted together.

 

[rwagner59]

Sounds like the Positive wire to that light must be shorted to another positive wire to the battery. The other possibility is a problem with the signal light relay and its wiring.... :beers:.

 

[jbrockman]

UPDATE: Okay - I have fixed that problem and now have another one that I need help on...First of all, you were right, there was a ground wire on the drivers side lights that was loose and once I tightened it - VOILA it worked.

New issues:

I have replaced all the wires in the front harness, the engine harness and the dash harness using the AAW kit....I also changed to an internally regulated Alternator thereby removing the horn relay and the voltage regulator.

When I connect the battery back, I turn the key and the gen light and comes on...When I turn the key to start the car, nothing.....The flashers work and the turn signals work..

I have 12.9 volts in the battery but when I did the ground continuity test ( thanks to the stickie) the multimeter shows 1. ( no change from when I turned it on). So I am assuming I have a ground issue.....I looked and all the ground wires on the front harness and the engine harness are connected.. The negative bat cable goes to the alternator bracket and the pigtail from the neg batt goes to the radiator support...I have not touched any of the ground straps......What is the best way to try to find out where the ground is missing???

Secondly - since I am having issues with electrical, I have removed the dash so I can double check the dash wire connections...Is there a way to test to ensure that everything is connected and getting power without putting the dash back in? What are the minimal things that have to be connected in order to power everything.. Can the system be tested without the dash in as long as things are connected like the headlight switch, ignition switch???

Thanks to everyone for your help and patience....

 

[Finally]

There are 2 sides to an electrical circuit, the negative, in this case ground, and the positive side so don't jump to the conclusion that it's a ground issue.

Your engine is grounded via the negative battery cable to alt bracket. Not sure what year your car is but that's how a 70 came from the factory. Is there a star washer under the cable clamp that can bite through the paint? Do you here a click from the solenoid when you try to start it?

You may have problems with gauges and lights if the dash isn't grounded properly but you should still be able to crank the engine. 12v comes from the ignition switch through the neutral safety switch to the S lug on the starter, purple wire. The engine provides the ground for that circuit, not the dash or chassis.

Check for 12v at the neutral safety switch then work back to ignition switch or other way to starter depending on whether you have 12v or not.

 

[jbrockman]

Thanks "finally"... It's a 71 Malibu with factory AC


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[Finally]

Thanks "finally"... It's a 71 Malibu with factory AC


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Okay, what's important is you have a good solid connection of the battery negative cable to the engine. It can be the alt bracket, that's how mine is, or the block or head. If you have that then do what I suggested and start checking where you do and don't have 12v going to the starter solenoid. I assume you have a good connection from battery positive cable to main lug on the starter. Do you hear any clicking of the solenoid when trying to start the engine?

 

[jbrockman]

Okay so I went out and had my wife turn the motor over.. Nothing! No clicks heard from the starter.. So I presume this means there is " no power" to starter? I wired it with the starter still attached and it was a bugger trying to get my sausage fingers up there.. I think I will unbolt the starter and require it again then mount it back up and try it... Does that sound right???


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[jbrockman]

UPDATE: so I used my test light and tested everything...I have 12.29 volts from battery.I have power to the starter. Then I tested all the switches / connections with test light...Here are the results..
WITH KEY OFF: The following wires lit up
Rear Body Connection: Orange
Headlight Switch: Red and Orange
Brake Switch: Orange
Horn Relay: Red and Black
Turn Signal Switch: Brown and Black
Ignition Switch: Red
Radio: yellow
Glove box and Lighter: Orange

WITH KEY ON: The light lit on;
Rear Body: Light Blue and Light Green
Wiper: Black and Dark Blue
Turn Signal: Purple
Ignition Switch: Pink
Back Up switch: Pink
Radio: Tan

So here is what I was going to do...Please tell me if I am headed the right direction...
1. I am going to pull the starter and take starter and battery to Autozone and have them tested.
2. Test the wires to the starter to ensure power while the starter is off. Red should be hot all the time (Big cable from Battery) and purple should be hot with key on (From Bulkhead)
3. It is my understanding that the starter bolts ground the starter so there should not be a wire grounding it right?

Ill report back with findings....If I should do something else, please let me know...

Thanks....

 

[Coppertop]

Jeff,

Your making way too much work for yourself.

What you should/should have done was follow Hank's advice about tracing starter power.

Go under the car, touch the test light to the purple wire terminal on the starter. Have your wife start the car. When she's holding the key in the crank position, the light should come on. If it doesn't, it's time to trace power back and forget about dropping the starter.

Purple wire only gets power in crank, not "on" position. Power leaves the ignition switch, goes thru the neutral safety switch (or clutch switch if manual) then out thru firewall bulkhead connector to starter solenoid. Any break in the "chain" and no power--no start.

 

[jbrockman]

Copper top thanks for the response.. I thought that what I did was essentially what hank was saying but I figured I'd test everything ( so when I go to put the dash back in I know everything works....

I thought by turning key to run position and using the test light since the purple wire lot up on both the neutral safety switch and ignition switch then the circuit was good... I now see what your saying so when my wife gets home I will follow exactly what you said and report back...
Thanks for the help... It's greatly appreciated as I learn by trial and error


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[Finally]

Jeff,

Yes the starter is grounded to the engine by the fact that it is bolted to the block, does not require a separate ground. Follows Joe's advice, I suspect you won't see 12v at the starter on the purple wire, that is if it's connected properly. The purple wire goes on the lug closest to the engine. Yellow wire goes to lug farthest from engine if you still have original points style distributor. If it's been changed to HEI distributor the yellow wire is not needed.

Also, it's time to put a charger on your battery. It's discharged enough that it may not be able to start the engine. If everything was working properly it should try but may not enough juice to spin the engine. A fully charged battery should be around 12.8v, 12.2v and it's about dead.

 

[jbrockman]

Thanks... I didn't know the battery reading 12.3 was almost dead... That's good to know... I'll put it on a charge now.... I have an HEI so I have the purple closest to the engine and the red from alternator going to fusible link and and red from bulkhead and pos bat cable all going to bat on solenoid...
I'll post my results.. Thank you.


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[jbrockman]

UPDATE: no power on purple wire to solenoid.


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[Coppertop]

Okay Jeff, time to follow that voltage loss.

Next step, Neutral safety switch. Purple with white stripe is power IN from ignition switch. Purple is OUT to starter solenoid. Check each wire with the transmission in PARK. See if each causes a test light to come on while you hold the key switch in the "crank" position.

Report back and we can go from there. :beers:

 

[jbrockman]

I have a 24 hr shift tomorrow so I will do it Sunday and report back... Thanks for everything...


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[Finally]

Thanks... I didn't know the battery reading 12.3 was almost dead... That's good to know...Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

Many people assume a 12v car battery should read 12v. At 12v most cars won't start, 12v is less than 50% of full charge. A fully charged 12v car battery will read 12.6v. After charging you'll read a little higher until the surface charge drains off which can take awhile.

 

[jbrockman]

UPDATE: purple wire for starter solenoid test light lit with key crank... Purple wire to neutral safety switch light did NOT light at all...


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[jbrockman]

UPDATE CONT: test light lit on purple wire from neutral safety switch to ignition switch with key crank...


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[Finally]

UPDATE: purple wire for starter solenoid test light lit with key crank... Purple wire to neutral safety switch light did NOT light at all...


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UPDATE CONT: test light lit on purple wire from neutral safety switch to ignition switch with key crank...


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Well I'm confused? Not sure where you have 12v and where you don't.

At solenoid, yes or no?

At neutral safety switch, yes or no?