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I see that there is still speculation on this site and elsewhere that Chevrolet has records similar to Pontiac that will allow us to find out build information and options that our cars came with from the factory. Here's a link to a story from the Corvette side of the hobby that offers virtually no hope of this information surfacing. This was written by Art Armstrong, a GM employee who was given a special assignment several years ago by the General Manager of Chevrolet Motor Division to find evidence of the documentation within GM. He came up empty-handed...

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/infosearch/index.php?cmd=advert
 

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You know, I would think WE could start just such a database. Scan buildsheets, put them up here for critique - if they pass muster (no fakes), we add them to our "documented" list.

A lot of these cars trade hands. Having the correct information at any point in time could prove useful.

We should also do it for non-SS versions - then we would also have a "documented NOT" list which could be useful for those cars turned into clones later on.
 

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Xtreme70SS396 said:
You know, I would think WE could start just such a database. Scan buildsheets, put them up here for critique - if they pass muster (no fakes), we add them to our "documented" list.

A lot of these cars trade hands. Having the correct information at any point in time could prove useful.

We should also do it for non-SS versions - then we would also have a "documented NOT" list which could be useful for those cars turned into clones later on.
Problem is quite a few people with documented cars don't want their build sheets displayed for fear of helping others 'document' fake cars. I have a few on my web site but nothing near what's really needed. :(
 

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Dale McIntosh said:
Problem is quite a few people with documented cars don't want their build sheets displayed for fear of helping others 'document' fake cars. I have a few on my web site but nothing near what's really needed. :(
Valid concern, I think.

Maybe we could have a small team (or even just 1 "expert") that gets the scans, confidentially. No one else would get them and they could sign a non-disclosure or confidentiality agreement to destroy the scan once verified. Not perfect, but maybe it could be made to work.
 

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Don't understand 'destroy the scan once verified'. :confused:

Seems a scanned database of build sheets and current owner would be something one would wish to maintain over time to validate to potential future owners the history. Whatever works though, I'm for sharing or compiling as much info as possible on our cars.

I have something like that for VINs on my website. The owner's name is kept confidential and if someone inquires about a particular listed VIN, I send that inquiry to the person that submitted the VIN and not to the inquirer. It's up to the poster of the VIN to contact the inquirer.
 

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I wasn't thinking of keeping the scans, but if the owners didn't mind that's good also. I thought destroying it, once used to verify a true SS for the list, would alleviate some of the concerns if anyone doesn't want the scan displayed anywhere. Keeping it in a secure database is an option also, I suppose.

I guess it's just an idea - the logistics of doing it would require some work, and no matter how it gets done it won't please everyone.
 

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Xtreme70SS396 said:
Valid concern, I think.

Maybe we could have a small team (or even just 1 "expert") that gets the scans, confidentially. No one else would get them and they could sign a non-disclosure or confidentiality agreement to destroy the scan once verified. Not perfect, but maybe it could be made to work.
Maybe you could have the U.S. Homeland Security Dept. keep the records. I mean Jeez, you can't just leave sensitive data like that in the hands of people without security clearance. First Abu Gahrib pics, then Valerie Plame. This country just may collapse if chevelle build sheets were to fall into the wrong hands! I guess they could put all the build sheet scans in a box wired with C4 and have a little red button to push in case the Cloners attack the building!:rolleyes:
 

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GM of Canada has the shipping lists on microfilm for vehicles built and/or sold new in Canada. They used to send you a photo copy of the section of shipping list with the your car on it. The VIN, key codes, option codes and some other stuff is on there. Microfilm is what these guys should be looking for.
 

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SMS said:
Maybe you could have the U.S. Homeland Security Dept. keep the records. I mean Jeez, you can't just leave sensitive data like that in the hands of people without security clearance. First Abu Gahrib pics, then Valerie Plame. This country just may collapse if chevelle build sheets were to fall into the wrong hands! I guess they could put all the build sheet scans in a box wired with C4 and have a little red button to push in case the Cloners attack the building!:rolleyes:
ROTFLMAO!!!!

While I agree, I was trying to alleviate someone's response that concerned this. I run a business, and am used to people bringing up "what-if's" that can stop a project in it's tracks. There's a way around every one of them. But his issue is a valid one, there are people actively trying to fake build sheets. Having real ones readily available would make that a lot easier.

My point is, if people really want it, do it. Quit wasting time talking about it and waiting for someone else. This IS the predominant chevelle site anywhere, is it not? I've got a build sheet documenting my SS and would gladly provide it for a documented log. It will only help me when I go to sell it, if ever.....
 

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I agree that having the build sheet is a definite bonus, but my point is that there ARE genuine SS cars out there without one. From my previous post you can probably guess that I don't have one, but i posted my original 402 VIN block stamping here, which was declared the real deal by people who know. My firewall stamping matches the VIN, correct fuel lines, rag joint, boxed LCA's. Everything date correct for the build tag. Now without the original engine or a sheet, you are correct, there's no way to be sure.
 

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Does anybody know if GM assembly plants keep such data on current production vehicles, even in the computer age? Back in the '60's there would have to have been some journal or card filing system in place to store such data. If the build sheets were duplicate forms, one could have been stuffed into the car and the copy filed somewhere. Other than that it doesn't seem likely that anyone would waste time trying to 'log' the daily production into a seperate file.
 

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The way I see it if somone buys a car thinking its a real SS then finds out its a clone, shame on them. I see tons of posts on here saying I just got screwed, my car is really a malibu and I spent a butt load of money on it :( :( . Well, there is something called research! There are TONS of resources out there (this website for one) to help you determine what you are buying is the real deal (granted we are in the era of fake documentation). For example a friend of mine purchased a 70 "SS" 454 off the internet .. first time he saw the car was when it was dropped off at his house. After about an hour looking at the car I noticed 1/2 dozen things that questioned if this car was really an SS. Turns out to be a clone (a nice clone) but none the less he spent 30K on it. He could of purchased a numbers matching, documented 396 car for that kind of money. Now he is ****ed thinking he got shafted ...

Guess my point is, take the time and do the research on what you are going to buy (BEFORE you buy it) and if it really matters to you to have the build sheet then find a car with one that seems legite. I spent 2 years looking for my SS and I'm happy with the outcome .. I have the build sheet but really doesn't matter to me, I have no plans to sell, just have fun tearing down the streats of Colorado .. no bitching from me.

(Stepping down from the Soap Box)
 

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okay, i realize it's only cars we're talking about here and there's a lot more important things. and honestly, the difference between a well done clone and a real thing car is probably around 20-30% of value (excluding something like a cloned LS6 car). but as a proud owner of a real '68 SS396 convertible factory 4 speed car, i think clones cheapen the real thing. people nowadays just assume my car is a clone. that ain't right. and here's what i don't get, there's a $%&# load of real SS cars, in need of restoration. in '69 they made nearly 90,000 real ones!!! i can buy a solid project SS automatic coupe for $4-5k. a decent malibu project is $2K. what would you do? and if you get a real car, you'll likely start with a domed hood, BB engine, 12bolt, etc... you'll end up buying to clone your malibu anyway. but then again, it's only cars.
hey birddog, i'm in colorado too. fort collins actually, how about you?
 

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ctrain22 said:
Does anyone know why or how Pontiac was able to keep records? You would think each division would have the same requirements or internal regulations regarding records. Or was Ponitac just above the rest?
Not sure as to HOW Pontiac kept records of this....but when I was an owner of a 1980 Indy Pacecar T/A I had some paperwork with that car, including some Poncho books, that indicated to me that PMD was pretty serious about performance in the 1970's even when factory muscle cars were way dead....the 1974-'79 T/A's kicked the Corvette's and Camaro's asses for real.....

I think-IMO-that a few performance guys on the inside of PMD did everything they could to keep performance, including records and paperwork. Let's not forget that Pontiac is credited with starting the musclecar era with the GTO in 1964-

Even though I have always been a Chevrolet guy through and through, I gotta say the Pontiac people really did what they could for hot rodders at the end-like when GM corporate decided to kill the 400 Pontiac engine circa 1977-78 and put the anemic 403 Olds in the T/A the Pontiac guys increased production of the 400 to spill over into the next year........it is a shame that it appears record keeping wasn't a priority at Chevrolet.....
 

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Hey glen I'm down in Aurora, I hit the local makeshift carshow every Friday night at the Sonic on the corner of tower and hampden. The highest number of cars we hit this summer was about 250+, usually there are about 40 or so on the really slow nights. What are you running? Check out my link to the webpage, maybe you've seen me running around town if you come down this way.
 

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car looks nice in that pic birddog. red and black look great on those cars. i can tell even from that far away pic it's a quality resto. do you have original engine?
i'm about 3/4 done with my resto. i was driving my car in "as is" condition until last year when i did an extensive frame ON resto. my car is currently running a 427(alum heads, engine builder was colorado custom cylinder heads, approx 500hp), 4 speed muncie, 3:31 posi. i've shelved the original 396 so i wouldn't have to worry about it. otherwise the car is pretty correct. it's butternut yellow, black bucket interior, black top. the car is not loaded, but has what i consider the 'must have items'. posi, buckets, console, PS, PB, rolling tach/ gauge package, and some other fairly minor options. it's kind of my dream chevelle, i spent nearly two years trying to find a solid 4 speed convertible. finally found one in NJ of all places, although the car was not a NJ car. it has the original floors, trunk, no holes. the frame/ underside is about the nicest i've seen. i always liked '68, but '70-'71 seem to be more popular. they go for more $ it seems. maybe i can get by that show out east sometime, i'm in denver all the time.
glenn
 
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