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That's pretty common unfortunately. Many users going to timing control have had the 59k issue. The tach reads 59000 rpm, and the ecu shuts down usually. But you can fire it right back up after a quick key on/off. And it's totally random.

The fix is different for most people.

1. make sure your Tach wire is away from all power and ignition wires. It's still live when using the timing control. At least according to Fitech.

2. make sure to isolate the black coil wire from all power and ignition wires.

3. make sure your 2 wire pickup wires are also away from all power and ignition wires. (seeing a theme here?)

4. If your rotor is out of phase too much, and you start getting a long travel or weak spark, it can cause excessive emi noise.

5. you can try a few ideas some have used. aluminum tape or copper tape on the pickup wires, to shield. Or using a shielded MSD pickup wire.

6. I personally had this issue on my chevy motor, and a ferrite choke on my pickup wires eliminated the issue.

7. ford engines with the dizzy in the front seem to have the most issues with this. We believe due to proximity to the ecu. some fixed by going small cap, replacing large. one user even did a quick test, and wrapped the dizzy and throttle body in foil and it fixed it. Another did aluminum tape wrapping on the dizzy cap which fixed it. It's just about blocking the emi noise.

8. Some are getting it if they run electric fans and when they kick in, they are introducing some type of feedback. I use electric fans and have no issues, but I also don't have fitech controlling my fans.

So there are some ideas.

Good luck, some have no issues from the start, and some gave up and went to an MSD 6530 CDI with timing control built in. But some trial and error testing will help. Check the suggestions above for testing.

It's usually completely random, and that's why it's tough to isolate.

But even though I'm not boosting, I really enjoy the timing control, and so does my motor. So now that I have used it, if I didn't' fix my 59k issue, I probably would have still went to an external timing control setup.
Nabors, quick question..

How can the system get a tach signal if the motor is not turning over? Just from some other electrical source?

Ken
 

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Nabors, quick question..

How can the system get a tach signal if the motor is not turning over? Just from some other electrical source?

Ken
Feedback from another electrical source would be my first guess. Fans, fuel pump, something. Make sure you have good grounds. I suggest adding a ground to the front passenger side bolt on the throttle body and run it straight to the battery negative.
 

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Feedback from another electrical source would be my first guess. Fans, fuel pump, something. Make sure you have good grounds. I suggest adding a ground to the front passenger side bolt on the throttle body and run it straight to the battery negative.
Thanks, Shielded both the pickup coil line and the unused tach signal wire last night, and while it did still show some numbers in the RPM field when key on, it started and remained running without shutting off.

I have a ground line on the TB already.. Going to run shielding around the fuel pump feed line next as it is one of the only things running when I turn the power on.

Will test more, cause I can't have it just shutting down on it's own.

Ken
 

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Thanks, Shielded both the pickup coil line and the unused tach signal wire last night, and while it did still show some numbers in the RPM field when key on, it started and remained running without shutting off.

I have a ground line on the TB already.. Going to run shielding around the fuel pump feed line next as it is one of the only things running when I turn the power on.

Will test more, cause I can't have it just shutting down on it's own.

Ken
As far as I know the ECU does not generate random numbers for RPM at key On events unless there is an electrical problem somewhere in the wiring. Although now that I say that, I'm not sure because I don't have my handheld hooked up inside my car. The ECU doesn't move my tach needle at key On, that I know for sure. The ECU doesn't shut down on it's own. It only shuts down when there is an electrical input problem somewhere outside the throttle body.

If the ECU was faulty, I doubt the car would start or run. If you find the electrical problem, and correct it, problem solved. It's probably something simple. And when you find it... :clonk: (This is where you respond with FiTech told me to send it in because the ECU is faulty.) :D

Your Autometer tachometer is hooked up to the 6AL right? Does your tach show odd numbers at key On? It should be supported without the need of the MSD tach adapter. If it's doing odd things at key On, I wonder if you have a grounding or power problem for your dash instrumentation. Worth a check.

I have been telling you to check your wiring from the get go. That unfortunately means everything, even the horn for example.
 

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So my FiTech is awesome. I have sort of an uncommon combo. It's a 10:1 454 with a real small cam. It makes tons of torque has a smooth idle at 19" of vacuum. It's all done by 4500. I also have a TKO 600 with 3.08 gears. The motor is totally happy running 1500 at 55. I mostly drive around town at low speed so this is a great combo for me. It feels great on the street.

One minor thing I'd like to get better if possible, if not it's not the end of the world I could live with it. If I am cruising at 55 in 5th at 1500 and let off for traffic, then get back on the gas lightly at about 1300 I have a bit of a hesitation. FWIW I did not have this with the carb, it could pull from this low rpm smooth. I've datalogged it and watched the AFR. It goes lean sometimes as much as 19 for a split second, but usually 17 or so. The map when I let off goes to 28 or so always high 20's, then when I give it slight throttle it jumps instantly to about 52 and always low 50s.

So far I have tried increasing the accell pump settings, all 6 of them progressively to 10, 20 then 30. This helped the problem a bit. It actually improved throttle response everywhere so I will leave it there, that was a nice surprise. Then I lowered the DFCO to 18 and 20 so it is not getting into DFCO when this happens, verified it by watching IPW. No change there, it wasn't the problem. Then I tried changing the accell decay. They were -10 and -20 ish. I set them to zero. Maybe a little better, but it's still there.

So what I think might be happening is that my oddball combo is landing in a hole in the fuel map when the map quickly transitions from 28 to 52 at low rpm. It goes right through the break point of 45. I think I could sort this out when tuning other ECUs with 2d fuel maps, but the FiTech doesn't have them, just the break points and interpolation.

Any ideas? Mine is the goefi4 600 so no pro software for laptop was included. Not sure it would work on this unit anyway.
 

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I'm headed to "Cruisen OC" (Ocean City, MD) car show this weekend. 180 miles one way. I usually average 12 mpg on a carb, primarily tuned for WOT. Will post my new mpg now that I have the Fitech installed. Based on other comments in this thread, I'm expecting to see an improvement on mpg.
 

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I'm headed to "Cruisen OC" (Ocean City, MD) car show this weekend. 180 miles one way. I usually average 12 mpg on a carb, primarily tuned for WOT. Will post my new mpg now that I have the Fitech installed. Based on other comments in this thread, I'm expecting to see an improvement on mpg.
It should be a little better. Remember when you get 12 mpg, 2 more miles per gallon is a 16% improvement, but almost meaningless at the pump. As afar as I can tell the only way to get a good mileage boost is with timing control and a light throttle foot. Before I got timing control dialed in it wasn't much of an improvement, but a big percentage.
 

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I'm headed to "Cruisen OC" (Ocean City, MD) car show this weekend. 180 miles one way. I usually average 12 mpg on a carb, primarily tuned for WOT. Will post my new mpg now that I have the Fitech installed. Based on other comments in this thread, I'm expecting to see an improvement on mpg.
It's all going to depend on how your carb was jetted. If it was jetting lean, then maybe not so much. But you said tuned for WOT, so that's typically not the case.

If you have a higher cruise timing and lean your cruise AFR to 16+ in the fitech, you should see improved MPG. But remember that lean AFR does require increased timing to properly burn, as lean takes longer to combust.

Not sure what engine you're running. My SBC can be up in the 45* - 50* timing at cruise with high AFRs.

If you feel some surging, then richen up the cruise AFR a bit until it stops.
 

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So my FiTech is awesome. I have sort of an uncommon combo. It's a 10:1 454 with a real small cam. It makes tons of torque has a smooth idle at 19" of vacuum. It's all done by 4500. I also have a TKO 600 with 3.08 gears. The motor is totally happy running 1500 at 55. I mostly drive around town at low speed so this is a great combo for me. It feels great on the street.

One minor thing I'd like to get better if possible, if not it's not the end of the world I could live with it. If I am cruising at 55 in 5th at 1500 and let off for traffic, then get back on the gas lightly at about 1300 I have a bit of a hesitation. FWIW I did not have this with the carb, it could pull from this low rpm smooth. I've datalogged it and watched the AFR. It goes lean sometimes as much as 19 for a split second, but usually 17 or so. The map when I let off goes to 28 or so always high 20's, then when I give it slight throttle it jumps instantly to about 52 and always low 50s.

So far I have tried increasing the accell pump settings, all 6 of them progressively to 10, 20 then 30. This helped the problem a bit. It actually improved throttle response everywhere so I will leave it there, that was a nice surprise. Then I lowered the DFCO to 18 and 20 so it is not getting into DFCO when this happens, verified it by watching IPW. No change there, it wasn't the problem. Then I tried changing the accell decay. They were -10 and -20 ish. I set them to zero. Maybe a little better, but it's still there.

So what I think might be happening is that my oddball combo is landing in a hole in the fuel map when the map quickly transitions from 28 to 52 at low rpm. It goes right through the break point of 45. I think I could sort this out when tuning other ECUs with 2d fuel maps, but the FiTech doesn't have them, just the break points and interpolation.

Any ideas? Mine is the goefi4 600 so no pro software for laptop was included. Not sure it would work on this unit anyway.
Try increase the TPS Gain, and TPS Max values. These values use the Fast Accel values as a base, but react faster to throttle changes than fast accel does. Try TPS Gain = 200 first (default is usually in the lower 100's). See if that helps.
 

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It's all going to depend on how your carb was jetted. If it was jetting lean, then maybe not so much. But you said tuned for WOT, so that's typically not the case.

If you have a higher cruise timing and lean your cruise AFR to 16+ in the fitech, you should see improved MPG. But remember that lean AFR does require increased timing to properly burn, as lean takes longer to combust.

Not sure what engine you're running. My SBC can be up in the 45* - 50* timing at cruise with high AFRs.

If you feel some surging, then richen up the cruise AFR a bit until it stops.
I thought there were limitations on how much advance can safely be added in above the base timing number.

Below is some FiTech talk:

Cruising 45kPa will easily like more than that – 40+ degrees at 3000 RPM is common – but watch out that you’re not too far from the “Distr Base Timing” or there will be arcing under the distributor cap, which can sometimes cause surging if it misfires. The 6000 RPM settings can often just be the same or a little more than the 3000 RPM settings.
 

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Try increase the TPS Gain, and TPS Max values. These values use the Fast Accel values as a base, but react faster to throttle changes than fast accel does. Try TPS Gain = 200 first (default is usually in the lower 100's). See if that helps.
That's were the magic is. I've never tried 200 on Gain. My motor starts farting on deceleration if I go above 116. Default is 109 for a V8.

Those dTPS Gain and Max functions are not available on the 400HP version of the throttle body by default are they?

By the way, where is your user group keeping hiding all the firmware updates? FiTech won't give me anything. :D
 

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I thought there were limitations on how much advance can safely be added in above the base timing number.

Below is some FiTech talk:

Cruising 45kPa will easily like more than that – 40+ degrees at 3000 RPM is common – but watch out that you’re not too far from the “Distr Base Timing” or there will be arcing under the distributor cap, which can sometimes cause surging if it misfires. The 6000 RPM settings can often just be the same or a little more than the 3000 RPM settings.
With the Fitech it's more about the total timing sweep. I tell people to stay within 30* of base for cruise unless you can verify spark gap isn't too long with an open cap.

So with your Base of around 15*, you should be able to go to 45*, but only if you can also confirm your rotor isn't too far off post.

If you're idle timing is counterclockwise of post (in a gm dizzy), then it could be an issue, as the spark will keep going further away (counterclockwise) from post as timing is advanced.

This is why with timing control in the Fitechs, it is good to have the rotor phased to be clockwise of the post at idle, and sweep across the post as timing is advanced. This allows for more time "on post" in the high torque area of the timing. Idle and Cruise use very little HP to maintain, and therefore don't need a strong spark. But also not too far away as to have a cross spark, or spark scatter.
 

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That's were the magic is. I've never tried 200 on Gain. My motor starts farting on deceleration if I go above 116. Default is 109 for a V8.

Those dTPS Gain and Max functions are not available on the 400HP version of the throttle body by default are they?

By the way, where is your user group keeping hiding all the firmware updates? FiTech won't give me anything. :D
They aren't available in the 400hp model, but I can show you how to modify the cal_info .inf files to add them to your handheld. They're in the ecu, they just don't allow you to edit them in a gostreet. It's not hard. Just adding some lines to the .inf file.

We have all the last ones from september 2016. PM me your email address and I can send you the September update for your model if you like.

They told us months ago there was a "major update" coming. It sounds like it's vapour ware. No word of it since.

They also said they are working on a download service of their own for users to download the software directly from site. No ETA on that either.
 

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We have all the last ones from september 2016. PM me your email address and I can send you the September update for your model if you like.
Oops, I might have sent you 2 PMs about this. The interface for the message system is not real intuitive. It looks like the messages never get sent.
 

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Not normal on mine, but I'm not running an autometer tach. My coil does not click when I turn the key to the On position or any other position. The only thing that happens at key On is my fuel pump runs and primes the throttle body. My VDO tach doesn't do anything until I start the car.

Rewire it according to the FiTech diagram with the 6AL in the ignition path, unless you know for a fact the 6AL does not work. I have zero issues with the 6AL in the ignition path running timing control. Triple check all your wiring for your installation. Be sure Coil Drive is set to VRCoil not Tach.

The clicking coil is a puzzler for me. I've never experienced that in 6+ decades. Sounds wired wrong to me as if more than one device is trying to drive the coil. Nothing should be trying to drive the coil at key On as far as I know.
Follow up to my issues:

Fitech let me know yesterday by email that they know the o2 sensor is capable of creating a tach reading with key on engine off. As per Bryce's suggestion, i unplugged the o2 harness. turned the key on and voila, no more tach reading with the engine not running. Plugged it back in and keyed on again, and erratic random tach numbers returned.

Added shielding to the o2 harness line from throttle body to the firewall, and now finally no rpm numbers with just key on. Did a short test trip last night and it seems to be fine.. More testing to follow.!

Fitech;s email suggests they have something for the software to correct this, and I am waiting for them to advise what that is and whether I can do it from my end.

Unless I missed something on all their tech pages, I have never found anything online about the o2 harness creating my condition.

Ken
 

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Follow up to my issues:

Fitech let me know yesterday by email that they know the o2 sensor is capable of creating a tach reading with key on engine off. As per Bryce's suggestion, i unplugged the o2 harness. turned the key on and voila, no more tach reading with the engine not running. Plugged it back in and keyed on again, and erratic random tach numbers returned.

Added shielding to the o2 harness line from throttle body to the firewall, and now finally no rpm numbers with just key on. Did a short test trip last night and it seems to be fine.. More testing to follow.!

Fitech;s email suggests they have something for the software to correct this, and I am waiting for them to advise what that is and whether I can do it from my end.

Unless I missed something on all their tech pages, I have never found anything online about the o2 harness creating my condition.

Ken
News to me also.

You might want to consider replacing that short harness O2 sensor that came in the kit with a longer harness version, like Bosch part number 17014. It might eliminate the EMI issue, and the longer length harness makes it easier to work with regarding wire routing and sensor placement.
 

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Hello everyone. I've been lurking on this and other fitech threads here, and finally joined.
I have a 70 SS396 clone. I had planned on running efi and had already installed a tanks inc tank with the 255 pump. I ran a -8 braided line for my feed and used the factory hard line as a return.

ENGINE SIZE: 402

FITECH SETUP USED:go efi 600

ENGINE VACUUM:7-8"

CAM SETTING (1,2,3, or 4) AND YOUR CAM SPECS:
Cam setting 3 works best
I don't remember my specs and can't find the card, but it is a crane hr with a 107* lsa

IAC COUNTS @ idle and cruise
7-9 at idle. Cruise is all over the place

TIMING CONTROL: Y/N?
No


IDLE RPM: it hunts between 750-800

TARGET IDLE AFR:ANY ADJUSTED PARAMETERS AND WHY?:
Target idle afr is 14:1
So far I have only adjusted the idle afr and the idle loop rates as described elsewhere in this thread.
 

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Follow up to my issues:

Fitech let me know yesterday by email that they know the o2 sensor is capable of creating a tach reading with key on engine off. As per Bryce's suggestion, i unplugged the o2 harness. turned the key on and voila, no more tach reading with the engine not running. Plugged it back in and keyed on again, and erratic random tach numbers returned.

Added shielding to the o2 harness line from throttle body to the firewall, and now finally no rpm numbers with just key on. Did a short test trip last night and it seems to be fine.. More testing to follow.!

Fitech;s email suggests they have something for the software to correct this, and I am waiting for them to advise what that is and whether I can do it from my end.

Unless I missed something on all their tech pages, I have never found anything online about the o2 harness creating my condition.

Ken
I have read more issues than I can recall, lol. And I can say while we have had a few people have issues with erratic O2 sensor readings, being fixed by relocating the O2 sensor wire. No one has ever had the O2 RPM issue that I can recall. I'll pass this on to our groups knowledgebase.
 
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