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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all, been awhile since ive been on the site. Either way, after dabbling with sbc and LS stuff. Ive finally ended up with my first 454. Early 80s motor home model with only 15K miles on it *owned by a family member.*, with i can only assume 781 oval ports on it and a measily 8.1 compression, correct?

Obviously I do not have many BBC parts around and as usual.. Im going to try and wring out some cheap power for the next season on a budget. Ive not exactly made up my mind which car it will be going in neither, but both are similar/same chassis being a 69 Nova & 69 camaro. My goals are 11.99 in a stockish type chassis.. Maintaining some street ability *Rural Oklahoma so thats not saying much*

Heres what I have at my disposal.

Complete 454
slightly cleaned up and unshrouded 702# 427 BBC heads
Mr.Gasket Steel shim headgasket *.020 I believe but dont quote me*
2" Diameter headers for whichever chassis.
12 bolt with 3.31s and posi or 8.5 10 bolt with 3.55 or 4.10 options
Possibly use an already built TH350 or might can splurge to have the 400 done.

Looking for induction, cam and convertor recommendations to potentially put me 11.9x. Thanks for reading. BobD
 

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Discussion Starter #3
We will assume a budget of $800-$1400 over the next couple of months. Which sounds fair with me as the complete 454 and 702 heads were essentially free, I figure id have that much in them.

Looking for a max effort street car sort of deal. Fighting through a full on 1965 GTO restoration as well as working on family and friends projects is almost enough to break a man. This will be the "MAD MAX" filler. Thanks again for your time.
BobD
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Is this not achievable with a hydraulic flat tappet camshaft? If so what is a comparable model to your solid flat tappet reccomendation?

Ive never owned a solid flat tappet cam and am not familiar with the lash regime to keep one running in spec. Also. Im not expert, but a 250 @ .50 duration seems, a bit big for me? If im not mistaken compression will come in around 9.5.1 with 702 heads flattops and.020 steel shims. MY goal of 11.99s is just that, a goal.. If it will tap out at 12.1s etc etc I will not be to heart broken.
I would like to do this motor in about 3 various stages...Roller cam in the future... Aswell as eventually getting stroked and a set of AFR heads.
BobD
 

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budget in mind,I would take the pistons out of the 454 and round up a set of dome KB pistons on the cheap around 250 bucks get the compression around 10-10.5 to 1 with your heads, go have those pressed on about another 50 bucks and new set of cast rings about 25 bucks. Hone the cylinder with a 3 bar hone.

Summit racing sells bi-metal bearings which I put in everything and you can get both rods and mains for like 30 bucks. While your at it new oil pump about 35 bucks and pick up screen another 7 bucks and tack weld the screen on, youcan get a steel sleeved oil shaft like 10 bucks at most, maybe another 10 bucks for freeze plugs. clean the crank and the block well and assemble.

Now you have a fresh bottom end on the cheap, for the cam just use a generic eddy rpm 240/246 @ .050" rpm cam- it's easy on the valve train and easy on the wallet about 100 bucks for cam and lifters make sure you find the one for 112 ls instead of the more common 114. get a new timing chain even if it's just a stock replacement or spend a little for the double roller for like 35 bucks.

So now you have a complete short block that's fresh and you have only spent, about 550 bucks.

Now the heads, have any port work done to them, just some simple casting clean up will do - meaning smooth all the casting from one end of the runner to the other end and round off the short turn, blend the bowls some and this alone is worth 5 mph in trap speed with no other changes( yes I have tested this at the track and it really does increase the trap this much for just some simple clean up on oval port heads)

The springs will have to be strong enough and retainers and all will need to clear for the .575 lift of the cam( ithink it's like .573") anyways many springs out there and I spend about 60 bucks for the needed spring thru competition products and set my seat pressure
at 110-125 lbs and over the nose 300-330 I just sort thru all the springs til I find a cheap set that will work with my install height thats around 1.88 sometimes less or more, need to know what your working with on install height, i also use new retainers and keepers and umbrella seals ( which most time come in the gasket kits about 50 bucks)

So retainers about 20 bucks, keepers another 7 and your full gasket kit for 50 bucks. springs another 60 bucks. sometimes I have to use a flat bastard to file down the tops of the guide to make room for lift on the head , to me no big deal, after I'm done I just radius the inside edge to deburr it either with a small stone or my edge knife, I just make sure it's smooth when I'm done. then clean the heads well and swab out the guides to make sure there is no trash in them and oil them.

So you are at roughly 550 plus another 137 bucks in the heads, now I like to run the 1.72 roller tip rockers so thats another 130 bucks or so. I would normally upgrade the pushrod size just because so that another expense if you want to do it, so without that upgrade your at 817 dollars.

So your at roughly 817 and your long block is done, now intake- used eddy rpm intake or air gap 100-200 bucks depends on the deal you can find, 750 or 850 holley- 750 a little cheaper I can get those on ebay all day long for under 100 bucks and throw some gaskets at it for nothing more since I have plenty of holly parts on hand. 750 set up to stock specs and running a tall yellow spring seems to work fine with this combo.

I would go with the 4.10 gears and some kind of 10" stall even if it was a cheap summit racing 2700-3000 stall that sells for $199.99 which will stall over 3k behind the bbc.


So your last amount of money depends onthe deals for the hard parts even so by my estimate 817 plus say 150 intake,100 in a carb is around 1067 in a complete ready to run bbc.

Which I have built many of these motor for under 1200 bucks. And no not because they break down, because it's simple and cheap and others see it and want one so I build for them.

With 4.10 gears and 3k stall in a th350 you will have no issue first time out to hit 12.50 @
109 mph on street tires thru full exhaust and then with some tunning and better traction with slicks open headers low 12's at 113-114 mph and more tuning and farther traction 11.80's at 115-116 mph, the combo's I have built like above is pretty much my go to build, it's cheap and easy runs on 87 octane fuel and I even lock out the distributor. shift point is 6500 on this build I use stock rods and bolts with whatever engine I'm building and all of them have been two bolt mains. I have used all sorts of head numbers on these builds, it's what ever head I have available at the time just the plain ol oval port heads.

Many hate the cam choice and say much better choices, many say the compression is to high, many say they just won't do it. But each to there own, your on a budget and this is what I do. I think this is a very detailed way of making some simple power with very little coin plus times to boot of what they can run.


Hope this helps
 

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Discussion Starter #7
As much as I would love to have it rebuilt, the only machine shop I trust to button it up for me is swamped. He is a friend of the family, I discussed my goals with him and what I currently have and that's what got me this far.I figured it would be best to wait and stroke it vs rebuild it twice.
The engine only has 15,709 miles on it before i removed it from the motor home and the 702 # heads were removed from a running 427 in favor of some edelbrocks.

More on my "hopes."
Convinced im going to go with the Nova chassis*1300$ roller, IE budget engine*. It currently has a 8.5 10 bolt with 3.55s and stock replacement axles still has c clips aswell as full smith race craft caltracs copy yet to go on.
Car also has a set of 28 x 11.50 15 Hoosiers test fitted on a to small of rim, tires bulged but still fits. I plan to purchase a new set or the equal of in a Mickey Thompson on a borrowed set of wheels from another car.

I live about 40 miles north east of Tulsa Raceway Park and have aspirations of driving the thing in "street" trim to the track.. Making some 12.50 passes.. Making a few changes and being in the 11.99-12.xx range. Make some changes and drive back. This will not be done often. At most twice a year, trailer for the other trips.
I've included some pictures of the 702 heads, I havent had a chance to run them by the machine shop to see what he thinks. Your thoughts? Good to go? Did someone mess them up? Should I look for another set of heads?




Intake ports



Exhaust *Dirt from sitting on shelf*



And of course, a rat nest.. For a RAT!


Project budget BBC:
 

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Hello all, been awhile since ive been on the site. Either way, after dabbling with sbc and LS stuff. Ive finally ended up with my first 454. Early 80s motor home model with only 15K miles on it *owned by a family member.*, with i can only assume 781 oval ports on it and a measily 8.1 compression, correct?

Obviously I do not have many BBC parts around and as usual.. Im going to try and wring out some cheap power for the next season on a budget. Ive not exactly made up my mind which car it will be going in neither, but both are similar/same chassis being a 69 Nova & 69 camaro. My goals are 11.99 in a stockish type chassis.. Maintaining some street ability *Rural Oklahoma so thats not saying much*

Heres what I have at my disposal.

Complete 454
slightly cleaned up and unshrouded 702# 427 BBC heads
Mr.Gasket Steel shim headgasket *.020 I believe but dont quote me*
2" Diameter headers for whichever chassis.
12 bolt with 3.31s and posi or 8.5 10 bolt with 3.55 or 4.10 options
Possibly use an already built TH350 or might can splurge to have the 400 done.

Looking for induction, cam and convertor recommendations to potentially put me 11.9x. Thanks for reading. BobD
600/570
229/241
109
Camshaft
Airgap Intake
850CFM Carb
Morel Street Series Hyd Roller lifters
3/8" 1 Piece Pushrods
PTC Converter in the 2800-3200 range.
Good HEI Ignition.
 

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Dennis,
You are my close rival for cheaper than cheap!

Bob,
My Super Budget 454 documented here 2009 was a dished-piston 454 shortblock amd 063 101cc heads, regular gaskets and the block deck was not fresh, did not feel confident in using a shim head gasket. CR was 8.8:1. I had a tiny 226*/.533/108 cam, 4000# of me and 1970 El Camino, 3.42 gear and 3000 stall. She ran 12.78/104.9. There was more in her I know but I sold the shortblock and completed a second 454 so I never found out just how much more I had exactly. I'd say 12.5 at 106.

Now let's compare 4000# of my set-up vs what you will have. 69 Nova with BBC and driver....with some selected removal of stuff you should easily come in under 3400# so 600# less than my combo. 600# less weight is 6/10 quicker at the track. 6/10 from 12.5 or even 12.7 puts you at your goal.

Not sure who put those notches in your 702 heads combustion chambers. Am unsure what effect, if any, there would be. Regardless, you will have more trouble putting the power to the ground than making a lot of power.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Kettbo your build is essentially what I'm after. I figured with slightly less weight I should get very close to my goal. Like I said if I fall short I fall slightly short. But that's the goal.

I will be documenting the progress of how the car comes together and hopefully we make some pretty good power. I'm not sure if I can swing the clay smith roller just yet, but I will do my part in side jobs if it is definitely the cam choice for my goals. I'm hoping to order this week.

I'm just worried about et goals Not much needed in the way of vacuum nor strenous stop and go traffic to worry about.
 

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I"ve got a basic Kettbo cheap cheap 454 with pp heads on it now, only drivin it to the body shop though, got 063 heads in the shop getting 2.19/1.88 valves, look up Kettbo's super budget 454 build, my rv motor had less than 22K miles and the cam looked like a million mi. on it, a car collector I know said they had softer metal material for the cams in the 80's...?, mines a 86, rick. :beers:
 

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I guess you could always do what a buddy did years ago, he pulled a good running 454 out of a 4x4 mid 70's truck he bought for 800 bucks and dropped it into his 80-81 station wagon
topped it off with victor jr intake, 850 double pumper, added headers with dumps so he could uncork it at the track and ran 11.80's with a 125 hp hit of nitrous- non adjustable plate system he got in trade. don't remember what he ran on the motor
alone but he never cracked the engine open other then swapping intakes and adding headers and he drove it to the track. he did this for a long time til the oil pick up screen fell
off and he had no oil pressure after a pass.

At one time my 396 engines ran a 14.99 pass and on the next pass with a nitrous hit
of 125 ran 12.69- 2.3 second drop versus N/A, that was my first time in the 12's. later on
another 396 of mine ran a 12.19 pass and with a 150 hp shot I got to run some 10.80 passes at 123mph.

Maybe just throw your 454 together as cheap as possible and squeeze your way to whatever e.t. you want. Just a thought.

I think John beat on that stock 454 for two race season at least on nitrous and didn't hurt a thing til he lost oil pressure, he took the pan off and there was the pick up screen laying in the bottom. I don't remember what gears he had in the ol station wagon but he did run slicks and had a small stall in the th350 tranny.
 

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Stock Ls6 cam,10" trans specialties low stall converter,headers,locked out hei timing approx 38deg,rpm air gap intake,750 holley dp or vac sec and the proper valve springs. Bout as low buck as it gets.
 

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as far as the cam type. I had a 10.2ish compression 461 with 049 heads go 11.82 in a Nova. Cam was sft 248/258, 850 carb, team g intake.

my buddy has my old 049 heads on his similar 461, airgap intake, 850 carb, but a lunati 241/249 hft voodoo cam going 12.30s in a 67 Camaro. He thinks it's flat at 5500. I used that head and cam on the dyno when I first went to a 489 and peak rpm was @ 5900. Could be fuel issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Keep the combos and ideas rolling. Still indecisive on flat tappet or roller cam & wether I can keep lash checks on par for a solid version.

Any deals on 850DP? Not much for sale in my rural areas. Would a points distributor with pertronix III upgrade and appropriate coil be adequate enough? After the car is sorted I eventually want to install my nitrous outlet stinger plate, since it's just collecting dust at the moment.
Quality enough for what I'm after? Last but not least, I hate to flood you fellas with questions, but.. How much nitrous can a cast 454 handle on a great tune? Plans are to start at a 50hp hit and tune the fuel side from there. It might possibly see the 150, just because. Any and all opinions/feedback is appreciated. This is going to be fun.
BobD
 

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Your quest is basically what my setup is, and it's pretty achievable

3750lbs with driver
ford 9in with 4.11s
caltracs for rear suspension

454 .030 over
flat tops with one valve recess
702 closed heads (estimated 9.5:1 compression ratio)
worked over holley 750- single pumper
cam was a gm corvette 427/435 hp cut (.569 lift? - don't remember the cam # right now)
edelbrock performer rpm intake
th350 w/ 3500-3800 stall converter

Car would run 11.9s in the July/August heat

Motor was picked up for $2k the way it was.
 

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Mike,

If you had the GM .569 (???) you did NOT have the 427/435 horse cam
427/435 cam is same as the 454/LS6, 427/425, 396/375 gross lift of .520"
427/435 was the 427/425 engine with 3x 2bbls for the 67-69 Corvettes

The 427/430 horse L-88 had the bigger .569(??) cam
rated at a low 5000 rpm to keep it 'less desirable'

I did run the L-88 cam in my 68 Nova that grew a 427, 3000 stall, 4.56 gears, etc, etc...as a youngster back as the 1970s were ending....YIKES!!!!

to the original poster:
so what heads are on the 454 anyway? If a 1980s engine, most had 236 peanut port heads on them.

everybody:
I have never seen chamber notches as in the pics posted page 1 above. Where did this voodoo science originate?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Ive not even pulled a valve cover yet. Its so damn cold out, ill brave it shortly. I too, am worried about the cylinder heads. Ive never seen any done this way, almost like they opened it up for bigger valve.. but didnt?
Kettbo whats your concern with the heads? Im going to brave it now and go pull a valve cover.
 
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