[427stingray]

We have all seen the threads on here about the questions about summit paint and the other cheaper brands and how well do they hold up as compared to the more expensive ones.
What is the major draw to the more expensive paints, Coverage. I can buy twice as much of the cheaper stuff for less and get the coverage I would need. UV protection. I could see that if your car was out in the sun and weather all the time. But how many of our cars sit in the weather. Mine will never see any harsh weather and it's time in the sun will be small, considering most of the shows I will take it to are at night. So it will see very little sun light as compared to a daily driver.
This will be my first car I paint with a cheaper brand, I have always used PPG. But unfortunately my budget will not allow me to buy the expensive stuff, I would also say that probably 75% of the guys that visit this site are also on a tight budget when restoring a car.

 

[robo3]

thats not the place to cut corners! or money !if you ever watch them mix the paint you would see what your getting ! 2 coats of (good) base compared to 4 coats of (cheeper ) base. why would you want all that build up, easier to chip and the color can very from panel to panel on the cheper base.

just speeking from past experences . i use cheeper clear if anything !!!!!

 

[31 chevy]

several if not all of the paint manufactures have cheaper lines that are still of good quality. When someone says cheap I think bottom of the bucket. I wouldn't go too cheap.
I've used the mid line priced paint with excellent results and paint hold out. and some of the mid priced lines are the prior top notch stuff. Just check into it, you can find something good and affordable. If you need pics I can post.

Randy

 

[Dave Birdwell]

The less expensive lines like PPG Omni, Nason, and some others that I can't recollect, the difference is mainly two things.... coverage, and the "bling". An expensive paint has the newer pearls and metallics that really jump out in the sun, whereas the cheaper lines are "old school" stuff, with less vivid effects. Not a big deal on a concours resto because they are truer colors, as the older cars did not use the big metal flakes and pearls that we have now.

I've used Omni on several cars, and have always been very happy with the results. I seal everything using a color that is similar to the color I'm going to paint, so the coverage is usually pretty good.

I prefer to use a less expensive basecoat, and use a good clearcoat, because THAT is where the durability comes in play. Basecoats have no UV protection themselves, it's all the clear.

 

[65300dlux]

I used PPG Omni with Zolotone clear on my beater 91 stealth 3 years ago just to give the cheaper stuff a shot, and it still looks good. Never garaged, driven all winter, but it was solid underneath and stripped to bare metal to start with.

 

[427stingray]

thats not the place to cut corners! or money !if you ever watch them mix the paint you would see what your getting ! 2 coats of (good) base compared to 4 coats of (cheeper ) base. why would you want all that build up, easier to chip and the color can very from panel to panel on the cheper base.

just speeking from past experences . i use cheeper clear if anything !!!!!

Well if the cash isn't there you have to cut some where. I don't plan on chipping the paint. And I would imagine that you would want to use a better clear. I have been painting for over 20 years and have used the best all the time, but $900 just for base isn't happening.

 

[Indyspecracer]

Less expensive isnt always "cheap". I used Prospray base and spi clear. Both are great products at a good (not lowest) price point. The prospray BC covered better than the dupont chroma base when i was shooting test panels. The SPI CC has great gloss and color sands and buffs great.

 

[dill]

Have anyone ever heard of crossfire brand ? How is it?

 

[65300dlux]

Crossfire is NAPAs house brand around here. We painted a 66 with Crossfire base and the high solids 5500 (I think) clear about 5 years ago. The car still looks awesome and gets compliments everywhere is goes. The base did not cover as good as DBU or DBC, but the clear laid down great and barely needed any cutting before buffing.

 

['72Malibu]

There is a discussion of this very topic at southernpolyurethanes.com. Reading that it is still hard to determine if the clear is the most important part of a base/clear job. I always thought it was and you could save some money on a cheaper base. It would be nice to know how the Summit or Kirker hold up under a "good" clear but good luck finding that information.

 

[chewyman1]

I have to agree with dave on this one, i've painted 12 cars so far, I've always used nason BC (Dupont's cheaper brand) and put a really good clear over it (I like using MIPA Glamour Clear-german company that has a local distributor) and i've never had an issue in 8 years - my wifes van was the first thing I painted & it factory matched great & still looks like it was painted yesterday (when she leaves the car wash that is - LOL) I've always been told that you can cut some corners on bc but spend the $$ on the clear to get the protection and shine you want.

 

[dill]

Het guys is crossfire mid-coat mixing clear and crossfire multi clear a good clear to use? Or should i use spi clear on this crossfire paint?

 

[Tod74]

I'm poor. I use the NASON stuff.

 

[YankeeRodder]

Most of us are living tight budgets during this depression, PPG makes some industrial non basecoat one step paints that work great for a street ride. $60-90 a gallon. No clearcoat required.

For your homemade first paint job, pay a grand for some razzoo paint and blow the job then that hurts!

There is no rational reason you can't paint a car for under $300 in materials. The original paint used on our cars were no big expensive product.

How many of those lasted 10-15 years with no problems. We live in a world of overkill. Do what your budget allows and enjoy your Chevelle.

 

[shannon]

two very good "low-cost" options are Pro-Spray (which has already been mentioned) and Matrix www.matrixsystem.com
both of these systems are DIRECT knockoffs / replacements of high-end systems.
Pro-Spray is a direct replacement for ICI / Nexxa Autocolor...the part numbers are even virtually the same. Supposedly some of the engineers / chemists left Nexxa after being bought out by PPG and basically started their own line using the nexxa technology. I have used both systems and i can vouch, there is virtually no difference...other than price. The base is very smooth and the clear is like glass...no reason to use another generic clear over the Pro-Spray base. Coverage???....i'm not impressed w/ the Nexxa coverage, but most colors will cover in 3-4 coats....red metallics and some golds will take considerably more.
Matrix....the Matrix ppg version basecoat (matrix also has a dupont base conversion) is DBC. I have used PPG products for 20+ yrs, all of the different lines. The Matrix DBC toners are VIRTUAL replacements for the DBC toners...again, even the numbers coincide. I used Matrix for over two years in my own shop...absolutely best bang for the buck when it comes to automotive refinish.
Coverage???...again, i'm not impressed w/ the coverage of DBC basecoat, but again most colors will cover in 3-4 coats. Keep in mind, 3-4 coats is pretty much the norm for any system. PPG's Global, Standox, and Spies-Hecker and BASF's RM and Glasurit lines are pretty much the best covering basecoats, but then you're talking big bucks.
The Matrix line is 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of the PPG equivalent.
Matrix clears are pretty decent. I have the most experience w/ the MS-42 HS clear. Not as pretty as some of the Deltron (DCU2021) or Global (D894 & D8152) clears, but definitely a viable product. Again...about 1/3 the price of what you'll pay for any of the other clears.
Matrix has one of the best Primer-Surfacers (2KPB) on the market.....price, build, and durability / holdout. I still use it on anything i do.
What you lose by using the Matrix products is customer service and support...virtually non-existent.

 

[Raven1]

At Crazy Canuck's suggestion I inquired about U-Tech. The Sikkens//Lesonal/ U-Tech rep came to my shop today. I will be buying Lesonal ProAir Clear for next week's job at an attractive price. $170 a sprayable gallon. A better product than other lower priced brands I shoot for certain jobs. And the U-Tech Single Stages an attractive product as well, and less than Concept.

The reference to original paints above lasting 15 years may be true in certain circumstances, but the components in that lacquer are not the same as newer lacquers. But doing what your budget allows is an important note.

 

[Joes-427-vette]

I agree, PPG, Sikkens, Glasrute, Dupont and other high buck paint is pricing themselves out of the market. I was in two shops that display the name brand paint signs but a " economy " line was on the mixing rack. Job bidding has become so competitive they have to save where they can. They use a quality Clear because it is the key to durability and shine. My last car was done in sikkens economy line with there clear and I can't tell the difference. Duponts advertising and throwing 20 plus million towards Jeff Gordon each year tells me they are not making a huge profit.... more like mega millions.

 

[cheveslakr]

I will be buying Lesonal ProAir Clear for next week's job at an attractive price. $170 a sprayable gallon.

Last time I purchased DBc it was $320 a gallon, mixed 1:1 with a $60 a gallon reducer, that's $190 a sprayable gallon. I don't see a big savings here.

Jerry

 

[HMartin]

Switched from PPG to Nason bc and I cannot complain!

 

[71MalibuRag]

My experience is most of the expense is in the clear, and much of the shine comes from the cut and buff after its painted. I was going to go with Omni, but chose to use a highly recommended high price clear (higher price is better right?). I can't remember the exact clear I went with except it was 3x as much. The problem is the clear I used was designed for a downdraft booth and heat lamps. I painted my car in the garage in November---so IMO the clear I used never hardened as I would like. The car sits in the garage 95% of the time, wish I would have just used the Omni and saved a few hundred bucks. I'm no expert, but my advice is to make sure the base and clear works well in the context in which you will be painting the car.