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I recently took off the rectangular port iron heads off my 496 and went with Eddy 60559 aluminum heads with the same ports. Now the mechanical Pro-Comp gauge runs 20 degrees hotter in the same situations than before. The cooling system hasn't changed - Be Cool radiator with dual fans which both draw, Meziere 55 GPH electric pump, the same empty shell thermostate, and the same loose nut behind the wheel.

My understanding was that aluminum dissipates heat faster, effectively lowers compression, etc. so it would run cooler, if anything. I run a centrifugal superchager on the 496/turbo 400/3.73 combo so the extra underhood heat isn't going to be helpful, but the carb still feels cool to the touch with the 1" spacer on an April evening.

Any reason that I now run hotter? This wasn't part of my considerations in springing for the aluminum Eddy's.
 

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the same empty shell thermostate, and the same loose nut behind the wheel.
Did you try using a big washer to slow down the movement of the water to give it time to cool in the rad...:confused:
 

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I'm using the same thermostate as before - with the spring and plunger removed - but the same housing as learned one can't just remove the entire thermostate assembly. It all worked so well before I dropped $2K into it. I'll be looking for track improvements at tomorrow's test and tune at Bandimere Speedway.

Maybe there is a more restrictive washer that can be used; I'm following the "one change at a time" approach and the heads are the only thing changed (including valves, seals, etc).
 

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Did you try using a big washer to slow down the movement of the water to give it time to cool in the rad...:confused:
Wouldn't that just give it more time to heat in the motor, resulting in higher engine temperatures?
 

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I'm using the same thermostate as before - with the spring and plunger removed - but the same housing as learned one can't just remove the entire thermostate assembly. It all worked so well before I dropped $2K into it. I'll be looking for track improvements at tomorrow's test and tune at Bandimere Speedway.

Maybe there is a more restrictive washer that can be used; I'm following the "one change at a time" approach and the heads are the only thing changed (including valves, seals, etc).
Maybe when you had a chance to test and tune...Tuning may be all she needs..
Good luck..
 

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I'm using the same thermostate as before - with the spring and plunger removed - but the same housing as learned one can't just remove the entire thermostate assembly. It all worked so well before I dropped $2K into it. I'll be looking for track improvements at tomorrow's test and tune at Bandimere Speedway.

Maybe there is a more restrictive washer that can be used; I'm following the "one change at a time" approach and the heads are the only thing changed (including valves, seals, etc).
Maybe its making more power with those heads , increased power calls for increased cooling systems

Also, did you re-torque the heads after a half hour to an hour of running after it cooled down 24 hours?
 

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Something is amiss in your combo. The Eddy's increased your CR! Do you have the timing set correctly? Is the mixture on the carb correct? It has to be something simple. What head gaskets did you use? :confused:
 

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Assuming he went with the Ede Rec Ports, these are 118CC open chambers. Probably no effect on CR. What head gasket did you use? Also, where is the temp sender - in the head or the intake? With alum heads, I would think a reading in the intake is more accurate. But, it does make sense, if you did not recalibrate the carb, the mix is most likely now lean (better head flow) - resulting in higher temps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The head gaskets used are Fel-pro MLS 1071 (not 1017 as easily confused). I have not gone through the sequence of retorquing as owner of local speed shop says he doesn't retorque with MLS. The mechanical temp sender is located in the cylinder head. Both old and new heads were 118 CC, and the aluminum is supposed to lower the effective CR by half a point or so. Its 8.5:1 static, and the same camshaft.

My timing is set at 30 degrees total due to centrifugal blower, and I learned that my old timing light was off by twenty (yes twenty degrees) and now use the Flaming River brand with batteries which can't pick up inductive voltages. So I was previously running about 50 degrees, which is ridiculous. I checked both old and new timing lights against a third light, and the new one was correct.

I have an AEM A/F gauge, and it runs about 13.3 around town and drops to 12.2-12.4 at WOT. I've also added a 1 inch birchwood plenum spacer. Sounds like I should richen further, but the extra heat just driving around still doesn't make sense. Its much hotter without any load.

If MLS gaskets not retorqued, how would that make it run hotter without other more severe problems?
 

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Do the head gaskets you use with the new heads have the same cooling passages as the old ones?
 

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For an accurate reading, stick it in the intake manifold at the fitting near the t-stat. Head readings are not accurate.
I would try this as well. The sender is close to the exhaust ports and the aluminum is probably allowing more heat to get to the sender, causing the temp difference.
 

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aluminum dissipates heat faster
This is absolutely, but only partially, true.

Think about it though..... Heat, being energy, is neither created nor destroyed, at least not on the scale we're working with in an IC engine. Rather, all that can possibly happen, is that the heat energy changes to some other form of energy, or moves from one place to another. So what does "dissipate" mean? IOW, the metal "dissipates" heat from where, to where? :confused:

It is more correct to say that aluminum conducts heat better. Using that more accurate word, should make it clearer: it allows heat to flow from the combustion chamber and the exhaust port, through the casting, and into the coolant, more rapidly.

So, what you're seeing is absolutely totally normal and to be expected.

Also, over time, the buildup of carbon and whatnot on the surfaces exposed to hot gases, will create an extra insulating layer, and slow down the heat conduction somewhat. You could use ceramic coatings on those parts to slow the process down. But, as the engine gets run, it will run gradually cooler all by itself.

As a rough "rule of thumb", about 1/3 of the combustion energy goes into mechanical motion (this is the useful part); about 1/3 goes into the cooling system and is wasted; and about 1/3 goes out the exhaust as waste. Of the 1/3 that goes into the cooling system, about 40% escapes directly out the combustion chamber, about 40% passes through the exhaust port walls, and the rest gets there by all other routes (through the cyl walls, hot oil from the bottom of the pistons, etc. etc.) Anything you can do to keep the energy in the cyl and make it do mechanical work instead of being thrown away those other 2 ways, increases power output and efficiency at the same time.

The "slow down the coolant" thing is one of those myths that won't die.

Think about THAT for a minute... you've got a hot piece of metal, that you've been welding on or something let's say, and you need to cool it. Which way will it get cooler faster: if you plunge it into a bucket, or if you turn a fire hose on it? :confused:

How is an engine block any different?

Heat flows into the coolant in the block according to the temperature difference between the castings and the coolant, and then flows from the coolant into the air at the radiator, according to the temperature difference between the coolant and the air. Flow velocity through the system is not a factor. All that slowing down the flow will do, is to allow the coolant to reach a higher temp while in the castings, thereby DECREASING the flow rate of heat INTO it and causing the casting temp to INCREASE. Not the right answer, EVER, for anything (except if you live someplace cold and you want your heater to blow warmer air). It WILL NOT increase the total heat transferred from the castings to the air. In fact, unless MORE AIR is moved through the radiator, slowing the flow down will DECREASE the total heat moved by the cooling system.... exactly the opposite of the desired effect.

We have all these laws of physics and common sense and everyday experience and all that, that tell us how the world works. It's amusing how all of that wonderful logic and reason and rational observation gets pushed aside and instead people turn to myths, legends, mysticism, and voodoo, whenever an engine gets involved. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
I'll put a second gauge in the intake manifold and compare the two. It would be nice if its just the aluminum heads allowing the header heat to transfer to the gauge in the head. I hope its not that the aluminum just conducts more heat into the cooling system.

I saved the old 1071 head gaskets and have a second set on hand and will compare the two. Hoping for a simple, non labor-intensive solution which doesn't require removing the heads again and will let a little dust settle on my checkbook for awhile. Good luck with that.
 

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We have all these laws of physics and common sense and everyday experience and all that, that tell us how the world works. It's amusing how all of that wonderful logic and reason and rational observation gets pushed aside and instead people turn to myths, legends, mysticism, and voodoo, whenever an engine gets involved. ;)
Ok so the thinking behind slowing down the coolant has nothing to do with the engine, but the time that is spent in the radiator. According to my physics education, limited as it may be, the longer a hot substance passes across a cooler substance the more heat is transferred to that cooler surface, just like in your example of the coolant in the engine the longer it is in the castings the hotter it gets. So follwoing logic why would it not work the other way as well, heat from the coolant to the radiator. Although your end result is correct, the means dont justify the means. It has nothing to do with how fast or slow it runs throught the engine, it has to do with how much of the heated coolant comes in contact with the cooler surface of the radiator. The faster the water flows through the readiator the more turbulance you have inside of the passages, so that more of the coolant comes in contact with the passage.

howstuffworks.com:

"increases the turbulence of the fluid flowing through the tubes. If the fluid flowed very smoothly through the tubes, only the fluid actually touching the tubes would be cooled directly. The amount of heat transferred to the tubes from the fluid running through them depends on the difference in temperature between the tube and the fluid touching it. So if the fluid that is in contact with the tube cools down quickly, less heat will be transferred. By creating turbulence inside the tube, all of the fluid mixes together, keeping the temperature of the fluid touching the tubes up so that more heat can be extracted, and all of the fluid inside the tube is used effectively. "
 

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If the coolant runs slow in the radiator, it runs slow in the block too. Meaning, if it "spends lots of time getting cooled" in the radiator, it equally spends lots of time in the block getting heated, since the same net amount of heat gets moved regardless of the system flow velocity (assuming that the flow is at least fast enough that the system reaches equilibrium and doesn't "run away"). Only difference is, more heat spends more time stored in the coolant, meaning the coolant is hotter, meaning the castings are hotter.

Turbulence is a minor contributor to the cooling system efficiency; but to whatever limited extent it has an effect, it opposes the "slow the coolant down" old wives' tale. That is, the faster it moves, the mnore turbulent it is, and the more effective it is at cooling.

Any way you slice it, the old wives' tale remains an old wives' tale. ;)
 
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