Team Chevelle banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

· Premium Member
Joined
·
15,865 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Howards was all billet steel for their rollers if that helps. Not like the Comp cast roller street cams.
Howards 129993 appears to be a custom solid roller. Probably have to call them to find out specifics other than duration and ICL.
Thanks guys. David, that's a good catch as far as the 12993 number is concerned. I wonder if the 53986 indicates what alloy it is. Usually it's a four digit number. But I guess I'd have to contact Howards like you said. Nothing I'm gonna lose sleep over though.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
373 Posts
That Cam core was made by EPC, if you look at the numbers on the bottom, you can see they were machined over the EPC part# (2002?). That an induction hardened steel core. EPC doesn't list the material. The heat treat is very deep, but the material doesn't have the torsional strength 8620 cores do.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
15,865 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That Cam core was made by EPC, if you look at the numbers on the bottom, you can see they were machined over the EPC part# (2002?). That an induction hardened steel core. EPC doesn't list the material. The heat treat is very deep, but the material doesn't have the torsional strength 8620 cores do.
Thanks Mike. I was hoping that you would chime in. I'm not being a wise guy, in fact, I view you as being the most knowledgeable about camshafts on this entire board since you are a cam designer. So I'm just being curious here with the following questions: If you cannot tell what alloy it is, then how do you know that it isn't 8620, or that it isn't as strong as 8620? Is it due to the color or the appearance of the surface? Can it be 9310?

Sorry if these questions don't apply. I'm just trying to learn. Is "EPC" a place I could contact to find out more about this core? I'm a little concerned because I'll be using some fairly hefty spring pressure with this cam. I had this cam made by Howards last year. I can post pics of the rest of the cam if it will help.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
15,865 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Mike would know, but R274 almost sounds like a lobe identifier.
Oh, yes it is. I had this cam made. It's one of the late Harold Brookshires' lobes that Howards acquired from the Landis 3L CNC cam grinding machine that they bought in 2010 from a place called Custom Camshafts, Inc. in Martinsville, VA where UDHarold used to work at, (I believe he worked there after he left Lunati). The machine had 101 of Harold's grinds stored in it's computer. So I know exactly what the specs are on this cam. I just wanted to know what the core material was, since Howards assured me that it would be made from a billet core. But I was/am concerned because they also told me that cam cores were very difficult to get because of this covid crap.

It was a 16 week wait for me to finally get this cam after I made payment and placed the order. Anyway, the use of this cam will just be an experiment for me. I already had another solid roller that was in the engine. The numbers underneath the stamping look like "005" to me, but I have to trust Mike Jones on this, because he is the camshaft expert here. BTW, something that I found interesting is that Steve Slavik, ( a former Ultradyne employee of Harold's) presently works at Howards cams since he left Lunati.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
15,865 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
IDK if this will be of any help to Mike Jones as far determining further details about the cam core material, but FWIW, here are some more pics........

Nickel Engineering Cylinder Auto part Tool
Nickel Engineering Machine Metal Cylinder
Automotive tire Tire Household hardware Rim Nickel
Automotive tire Household hardware Gas Camera accessory Auto part
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
15,865 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
OK well I just sent an email with these same pics to the Engine Power Components company, (I found their biz name on the SpeedTalk board) asking them if they can supply some more details concerning what alloy this is made of. I was going to call them but I'm thinking that it would help if they can view the numbers on the cam.
 

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,164 Posts
OK well I just sent an email with these same pics to the Engine Power Components company . . . . . . .
idn
Billy,
Dont take this the wrong way but my feeble little brain just does not understand why you just dont pick up the phone (not e-mail) and call Howards and probably have your answer in 5 minutes ??????? I might be wrong but dont be surprised if you never hear back from EPC. They are a huge multinational corporation that makes shafts for oems etc. Sort of like emailing the company that makes axle forgings for GM and asking them something about a rear axle.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
15,865 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
idn
Billy,
Dont take this the wrong way but my feeble little brain just does not understand why you just dont pick up the phone (not e-mail) and call Howards and probably have your answer in 5 minutes ??????? I might be wrong but dont be surprised if you never hear back from EPC. They are a huge multinational corporation that makes shafts for oems etc. Sort of like emailing the company that makes axle forgings for GM and asking them something about a rear axle.
Yes Bill, your point is well taken my friend, and I plan to call Howards tomorrow, ( too late to do that today). I was a little caught up earlier today with taking care of a family member. Maybe someone at Howards might even be willing to look up the order number and be able to tell me more. Perhaps even Steve Slavik, but I'll ask whoever I can get ahold of tomorrow. Thanks for the advice. You're more knowledgeable than I am at this stuff. (y)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
850 Posts
Oh, yes it is. I had this cam made. It's one of the late Harold Brookshires' lobes that Howards acquired from the Landis 3L CNC cam grinding machine that they bought in 2010 from a place called Custom Camshafts, Inc. in Martinsville, VA where UDHarold used to work at, (I believe he worked there after he left Lunati). The machine had 101 of Harold's grinds stored in it's computer. So I know exactly what the specs are on this cam. I just wanted to know what the core material was, since Howards assured me that it would be made from a billet core. But I was/am concerned because they also told me that cam cores were very difficult to get because of this covid crap.

It was a 16 week wait for me to finally get this cam after I made payment and placed the order. Anyway, the use of this cam will just be an experiment for me. I already had another solid roller that was in the engine. The numbers underneath the stamping look like "005" to me, but I have to trust Mike Jones on this, because he is the camshaft expert here. BTW, something that I found interesting is that Steve Slavik, ( a former Ultradyne employee of Harold's) presently works at Howards cams since he left Lunati.
What are the specs ? Looks like a monster !
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
15,865 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
What are the specs ? Looks like a monster !
274/[email protected] and .817" lift with a 1.8 rocker, and it's ground on a 108 LSA. It would be .772" with a 1.7 rocker, but I'll be using 1.8 rockers. It's for my pump gas 632cid engine. Some guys told me that it's "all wrong" being a single pattern cam, and being such a tight LSA too. But like I said, this purely an experiment on my part. I don't expect a whole lot of RPM out of this cam. In fact, my rev limiter will be set to 6,400 and if the power peaks between 6,000 and 6,400 RPM, I'll be pleased with that.

But I'll be using some fairly stout valve spring pressures, so IDK if I should be concerned about this cam core not being made from an 8620, 8660, or a 9310 alloy. I wanted the cam ground on the tightest LSA possible without breaking into the heat treat, and they told me that 108 would be the tightest. So perhaps that's why they chose a deep heat treated material. But they didn't explain that to me, so I'm just guessing on that. I asked the guy at Howards what material the core would be made out of after he called me back the next day to let me know that a core was available for this order, and he couldn't or wouldn't give me an answer about that. He said that an "appropriate alloy" would be chosen" for this cam. So I guess that's one of the reasons why I was a little hesitant to call them to inquire, since I didn't get an answer from them at the time of the order. :rolleyes:
 

· Registered
Joined
·
373 Posts
If you cannot tell what alloy it is, then how do you know that it isn't 8620, or that it isn't as strong as 8620?
I have been buying that exact part# for about 40 years, so I know it's an induction hardened material. 8620 is carborized, not induction hardened, and has copper between the lobes to keep the core from hardening, and breaking. Common induction hardening materials are 1050, 5150, 8650, and 8660. EPC doesn't list the actual material in their catalog, but from my 40 years of experience with that part#, I would say it's close to 5150.
It doesn't have the torsional strength of 8650. In fact, the small block chevy cores they make out of this material are prone to breaking between the last two journals. It's not a problem with the Big block cores, because the barrel diameter of the core(.980") is larger the the Small block cores(.920").
 

· Registered
Joined
·
850 Posts
274/[email protected] and .817" lift with a 1.8 rocker, and it's ground on a 108 LSA. It would be .772" with a 1.7 rocker, but I'll be using 1.8 rockers. It's for my pump gas 632cid engine. Some guys told me that it's "all wrong" being a single pattern cam, and being such a tight LSA too. But like I said, this purely an experiment on my part. I don't expect a whole lot of RPM out of this cam. In fact, my rev limiter will be set to 6,400 and if the power peaks between 6,000 and 6,400 RPM, I'll be pleased with that.

But I'll be using some fairly stout valve spring pressures, so IDK if I should be concerned about this cam core not being made from an 8620, 8660, or a 9310 alloy. I wanted the cam ground on the tightest LSA possible without breaking into the heat treat, and they told me that 108 would be the tightest. So perhaps that's why they chose a deep heat treated material. But they didn't explain that to me, so I'm just guessing on that. I asked the guy at Howards what material the core would be made out of after he called me back the next day to let me know that a core was available for this order, and he couldn't or wouldn't give me an answer about that. He said that an "appropriate alloy" would be chosen" for this cam. So I guess that's one of the reasons why I was a little hesitant to call them to inquire, since I didn't get an answer from them at the time of the order. :rolleyes:
Sounds awesome and outstanding.
All wrong?
Out of the box perhaps but not all wrong.
When has anyone ever won at anything inside the box ?
You can give it more or less duration on ex and or int by a few turns of a wrench anyway.
Lash .
On the LSA I've heard of guys runnin 106 or even lower and doing very well.
Tell them you didn't ask if It was appropriate you asked what the alloy was . Your nickel
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
15,865 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I have been buying that exact part# for about 40 years, so I know it's an induction hardened material. 8620 is carborized, not induction hardened, and has copper between the lobes to keep the core from hardening, and breaking. Common induction hardening materials are 1050, 5150, 8650, and 8660. EPC doesn't list the actual material in their catalog, but from my 40 years of experience with that part#, I would say it's close to 5150.
It doesn't have the torsional strength of 8650. In fact, the small block chevy cores they make out of this material are prone to breaking between the last two journals. It's not a problem with the Big block cores, because the barrel diameter of the core(.980") is larger the the Small block cores(.920").
Mike, thanks very much for taking the time to explain those things to me. I appreciate that. (y)(y)
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
15,865 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
OK, I wrote three e-mails with this same question about what alloy this cam core is made of, and to their credit, all three businesses sent me a reply within a day. However, I received two different answers, and they're as follows:

Answer #1. from EPC...(I sent them the same pics you see in this thread)...
"This is a steel billet camshaft made from 5160 steel." (hmmm, I never heard of "5160", only 5150. But that doesn't mean that 5160 doesn't exist ).



Answer #2. From Competition Products, (which I believe is the parent company of Howards Cams)...
"This cam was ground on an Engine Power Components core PN# EPC-2002C. The core is made out of 8660 steel." (Hmmm....Really?)


Answer #3. From Howards Cams.....
"It’s 8660 steel "




This is quite a challenge just to get a straight answer. I find this to be typical of the aftermarket in general. You'll often get a different answer from each person you talk to. For clarity, allow me to point out that I do NOT apply that statement to Mike Jones, (AKA CamKing). Because I did NOT purchase this camshaft from Mr. Jones, therefore I cannot expect him to be responsible for this confusion since he had nothing to do with this camshaft. I'm very confident that had I purchased a cam from Mike, I would've received a straight and accurate answer from him from the start without all of this kind of nonsense above. And at this point, I'd take Mike's word over that of the three people who I quoted above^^^ since their answers are contradictory concerning the exact same camshaft. :rolleyes:

Oh well. I guess I'll just install it in the engine and hope for the best. To think I waited 4 months for this cam to be delivered, and now I can't even get a straight answer to a simple question about it. Pardon my rant, but from a customer's viewpoint, this is just annoying.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
7,713 Posts
I just used a cam motion cam on a 1055 core. 50 55 and in your case 60 is how much carbon the steel has I was told. 50=0.50% 55=0.55% and 60=0.60%.
I was told 1055 was not as strong as 8660 or 8620? I think Gm use 1050 on their oem hyd rollers?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BillyGman
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top