Digital Camcorders. Whatchya got?
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http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wc...rogram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702
I've got this one, decent video for the price, nice to catch little moments, like when my son was born. The camcorder i had before was a full size VHS type in 93, so i don't have much to compare it to as far as whats up to todays standards.
I'm not one for taking video, i prefer photos. Videos are kinda boring and drag along till you get to a good part, unless of course you edit your videos to get only the good parts and if your going to do that , might as well just have taken some pictures.
If your interested in the 3ccd cams try this site, http://www.pana3ccduser.com/
I've got this one, decent video for the price, nice to catch little moments, like when my son was born. The camcorder i had before was a full size VHS type in 93, so i don't have much to compare it to as far as whats up to todays standards.
I'm not one for taking video, i prefer photos. Videos are kinda boring and drag along till you get to a good part, unless of course you edit your videos to get only the good parts and if your going to do that , might as well just have taken some pictures.
If your interested in the 3ccd cams try this site, http://www.pana3ccduser.com/
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My issue is whether to get DVD or Mini DV format.DVD you can stick in the player and watch But the quality isnt as good as Mini DV. Mini DV you have to download to your computer and burn to a DVD. And it takes a LOT of room.Like 7 gigs for 30 minutes or something like that. Maybe someone with Mini DV could clear it up for me?Is it a hassle?
I've got a mini DV Sony camcorder - don't remember the model offhand. I can easily fit a whole 60 minute tape onto one 4.7 GB DVD. It is a bit of a hassle to load them onto my computer, since it's done in "real time" (i.e., it takes an hour to load an hour of video). I guess it depends on what you are trying to do, and how much video you shoot.70isfine said:
I agree with super sport though. Home movies suck to look at. But the wife has to have it. Editing them down REALLY sucks - takes a ton of time...
Enjoy.
Mini DV and Digital 8 stores video in full uncompressed AVI mode - as close to perfect as you will come.
By definition a video DVD stores video in compressed form (Mpeg 2), the quality is quite excellant but will always be less than full AVI, even though your eyes may not be able to discern the difference. The other thing to remember is you may not be able to see the difference TODAY, but in 5 years you may have some super-nice big high-definition plasma TV where you CAN see the difference.
I think if you are inclined to edit your footage it would be easier to download it to a computer anyways. Most camcorders come with some kind of editting software these days. I have numerous versions of Pinnacle Studio I try and use when I am in the mood, which is a bigger investment than most people want to make. If you are the type that records footage raw and uneditted and want to watch it right away the DVD recorder might be a better choice. Blanks are cheaper, also.
By definition a video DVD stores video in compressed form (Mpeg 2), the quality is quite excellant but will always be less than full AVI, even though your eyes may not be able to discern the difference. The other thing to remember is you may not be able to see the difference TODAY, but in 5 years you may have some super-nice big high-definition plasma TV where you CAN see the difference.
I think if you are inclined to edit your footage it would be easier to download it to a computer anyways. Most camcorders come with some kind of editting software these days. I have numerous versions of Pinnacle Studio I try and use when I am in the mood, which is a bigger investment than most people want to make. If you are the type that records footage raw and uneditted and want to watch it right away the DVD recorder might be a better choice. Blanks are cheaper, also.
I know a JVC rep and he was showing me this new toy they are making. It is spendy but sure cool gadget. I am thinking about getting it soon.
http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027384&pathId=119&page=1
http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027384&pathId=119&page=1
Interesting-I had a (at the time) 6 mth old Sony Hi-8 that needed to be replaced under warrenty This was about 1-2 years ago, all the high-end Sony cameras were digital. That meant that all the analog cameras available did not have the features my old Hi-8 did (stereo sound, video effects, etc), so they had to step up and give me a Digital 8. I had the same impression as you about quality of the digital AT FIRST, because I was recording digital video on my "in stock" Hi-8 tapes. Once I bought proper "digital" 8mm tape the quality is superb, absolutely equal to the quality of the Hi-8 (well, to my eyes on my TV/monitor, anyways). Better than DVD quality.
Apparantly its critical to use Digital 8 tape in a Digital 8 camera.
Interesting. They are the same size tape, no? One thing I can say about mini DV is the size is incredible. We have a 4 year old miniDV Sony with a Light and Motion housing for our underwater work. The thing is literally the size of a small car battery, including lights, weighs about 8 lbs, and is just slightly negative under water. It fits in a medium sized Pelican. Compare that to a Hi8 settup that is three times the size, and requires three Pelicans. Very important since we work a lot in currents and climbing over crap under water. Plus is has a still function, so we don't need a separate camera for still photos.Dan72 said:
You should have seen the size of our old VHS setup (giggle).
I've had several Hi-8 cameras over the years. I did a project back in 2004 to make DVD's of a lot of that old footage, and I learned something very interesting...
I learned that there are very few - basically zero - consumer grade "VCR's" that will play Hi-8 tapes. The only way to watch them is to use the camera itself as a playback device. Why is that? Don't you think that people might want to be able to watch tapes w/out having to temporarily hook up the camera to their television. Then the revelation...
NOBODY WATCHES THIS CRAP!
I ended up buying a gently used, professional grade Sony machine (that is no longer made, cost maybe $1500 or more when new) that plays Hi-8 tapes, along with a Canopus digital video converter card for my PC in order to digitize my video.
I wouldn't buy a Hi-8 camera. Too many parts and steps needed to get it to digital.
I learned that there are very few - basically zero - consumer grade "VCR's" that will play Hi-8 tapes. The only way to watch them is to use the camera itself as a playback device. Why is that? Don't you think that people might want to be able to watch tapes w/out having to temporarily hook up the camera to their television. Then the revelation...
NOBODY WATCHES THIS CRAP!
I ended up buying a gently used, professional grade Sony machine (that is no longer made, cost maybe $1500 or more when new) that plays Hi-8 tapes, along with a Canopus digital video converter card for my PC in order to digitize my video.
I wouldn't buy a Hi-8 camera. Too many parts and steps needed to get it to digital.
Yep. Same size, shape, fits in there, but prerecorded Digital won't play in Hi 8, and vice-versa, but you can record new video on either machine in either format.
IMO if its important to quality, and pre-recorded wouldn't play, there wasn't much point in having a Digital-8 format at all. Should have gone MiniDV, not sure why they didn't (well, probably the Digital 8 had been in development for some time, and was the natural evolution from Hi 8...) Anyways, it fits but the quality is terrible, very jerky and slow, the instructions said not to but I'm stubborn. I was annoyed at first, I thought maybe they had rushed the digitals onto the market just to be in there early, instead of perfecting the techology, but I reread the instructions and went out and bought a Digital 8 tape which works A+.
Pretty sure current Sony offerings include both MiniDv and Digital-8, as well as mini DVD and even Hi-Def. Hi-8 is still around, I think straight 8mm has gone the way of the dodo.
I remember a VHS camcorder we had, that thing must have been huge, and probably sunk like a rock without floatation device.
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I had a full size VHS camera and now i have a VHS-C. The full size VHS was great. The picture quality was great (even watching now,ten years later) and you could record forever on a tape and just pop it in and watch it! The VHS-c quality is horrible,20 minutes to a tape and you need a goofy adapter to watch it. I was happy with the full size VHS quality so i think i'll like mini DVD. just dont like that you can only get 20 min of high quality video on a mini DVD.Why not justmake a camaera that will use a full size DVD? I would rather have the extended record time then have the thing be the size of a wristwatch.Andy69 said:
Let me tell ya! It had a big ol Ikelite housing that weighed 30 lbs, and for light we strapped a cave light to the top and the battery case for the light, which was the same size as the housing, was strapped to the bottom of the housing with two hose clamps. For flotation we strapped some of that blue insulating foam to the sides. The good side about it was it doubled as a battering ram.Dan72 said:I remember a VHS camcorder we had, that thing must have been huge, and probably sunk like a rock without floatation device.
I just bought a Sony DCR-DVD92, and then returned/exchanged it for the next step up, the DCR-DVD203...70isfine said:
I think the video quality is great... I only use it to film my kids, but its so great to just pop the disc into the home-DVD player and watch the video AND the still pictures...
I have a 36" Sony TV, and the video is crystal-clear...
Why is a Mini-DV supposedly better quality? I doubt it...
I also have a DVD player and a separate DVD burner on my computer, so I can copy the discs easily (and quickly), and send copies of to the grandparents...
Before buying, I talked to several Sony Reps (on-line and one was at a store/ special Sony event...
He told me the video quality was the same for the #92, the #203 and the #403... The "still image" was different (thats where the CCD come in- thats what I was told)... The big difference in the 203 and 403 is that they have more "fancy" editing options (like titles, fades, etc, stuff I figured I wouldn't have the time to use much). The #403 also has higher quality stills (higher CCD), but was another $200 (better battery too thought), and had a slightly lower optical zoom capability (I think 10X versus the #203's 12X)... They all have additional "digital" zoom, but the pictures can get grainy...
The 92 has lower quality "stills", and no computer hookup (no USB port, no software, etc), BUT it has the best "optical" zoom (20X), great for close-ups... I didn't plan on taking stills (have another digital camera for that), and I didn't need the computer cable (have the DVD player in the comp), so I went for the #92...
After using it for a few weeks, I realized I DID use the still camera quite often (more convenient than pulling out a separate camera)... And I wanted some "basic" software. So I returned it and bought the next model up...
The 203 has better "stills" and the basic software...
Unfortunately, the software isn't what I really wanted... The DVD records in .Vob, .INF, and some other file format... The software converts to Mpegs and you can edit, etc... But I can only convert back to the DVD format buy "downloading " back tothe camera (even though I have the DVD burner in my computer...)...
My big problem is that even though I can burn raw footage directly to another disc (and a full size disc), I can only burn one mini-DVD at a time...
In other words, the Mini-DVDs hold about 30 minutes of video... The full-size DVD-R discs I have will physically hold the data from 3 Mini's, but the Format of the Mini's won't allow that (Need to actually "produce" another DVD)... I need to actually buy some kind of DVD authoring program...
PS, Anybody using the Sonys withthe Mini DVD-RW discs (Sony has them in a purple package). I found them at Wal-Mart for $4.97 each (EVERYONE else, even on-line was OVER $8 each (and closer to $9 or $10)...
I picked up 8 or 9, and once I archive tothe full size, then I can clear the disc and record new scenes...
I also recommend Crutchfield for purchases... Never had a problem with them, and they allowed me to return the "used" camcorder (within 30 days) for a full refund (no "restocking fee", etc)... They also had one of the best prices overall (a few "unknowns" had lower prices on the internet, but I didn't trust them)...
1966_L78
If a disk is a true DVD video disk it hardware encodes the video into Mpeg 2 compression. This is a lossy compression scheme. There IS some degradation in quality, but chances are you won't notice it. Some types of Mpeg 2 compression uses VBR (Variable Bit Rate) that compresses video more during dark and slow changing scenes, and brightly lit high action scenes (where you might notice the compression more) are less compressed. The result is an excellant quality picture that to your eyes may appear no different than uncompressed video. However whether you can see it or not, there is some loss of picture info as compared to raw AVI, as stored on Digital 8 and I assume MiniDv.
.vob, .ifo, etc are DVD format. .vobs can actually be renamed .mpg and will play in media player, etc, assuming you have an mpeg 2 codec installed (.vob files contain the mpeg-2 encoded video, broken into about 1-gig files).
What software did they include?
As I mentioned I use Pinnacle Studio. Maybe try windows Movie Maker if you have Win XP, its included with Windows, and can also be downloaded with Windows Update. Both (and many many others, I have some others that came with the burner, my capture device, etc) will encode Mpeg (.mpg files) into DVD format for you, generating the .vob's, .ifo's, etc.
Does that help at all?
If a disk is a true DVD video disk it hardware encodes the video into Mpeg 2 compression. This is a lossy compression scheme. There IS some degradation in quality, but chances are you won't notice it. Some types of Mpeg 2 compression uses VBR (Variable Bit Rate) that compresses video more during dark and slow changing scenes, and brightly lit high action scenes (where you might notice the compression more) are less compressed. The result is an excellant quality picture that to your eyes may appear no different than uncompressed video. However whether you can see it or not, there is some loss of picture info as compared to raw AVI, as stored on Digital 8 and I assume MiniDv.
.vob, .ifo, etc are DVD format. .vobs can actually be renamed .mpg and will play in media player, etc, assuming you have an mpeg 2 codec installed (.vob files contain the mpeg-2 encoded video, broken into about 1-gig files).
What software did they include?
As I mentioned I use Pinnacle Studio. Maybe try windows Movie Maker if you have Win XP, its included with Windows, and can also be downloaded with Windows Update. Both (and many many others, I have some others that came with the burner, my capture device, etc) will encode Mpeg (.mpg files) into DVD format for you, generating the .vob's, .ifo's, etc.
Does that help at all?
I was writing this as you posted, so I didn't see your latest
Thanks Dan,
How will the mini-DV tapes hold up over 5 years? Will the quality of the tape actually start to deteriorate over time? Compared to a DVD-disc?
I know not very likely, but will magnetic fields or water (flood, etc) affect the tapes? Will Magentic fields or water affect the DVD discs (assuming R and not RWs)?
What's a better archiving system?
I have heard of "archive quality" Discs, but didin't see any.
Honestly, the #1 reason I went DVD was for the immediate playback and the ease/speed to "fast-forwarding" to a particular scene... Plus the quicker "download" onto my computer...
Thanks Dan,
How will the mini-DV tapes hold up over 5 years? Will the quality of the tape actually start to deteriorate over time? Compared to a DVD-disc?
I know not very likely, but will magnetic fields or water (flood, etc) affect the tapes? Will Magentic fields or water affect the DVD discs (assuming R and not RWs)?
What's a better archiving system?
I have heard of "archive quality" Discs, but didin't see any.
Honestly, the #1 reason I went DVD was for the immediate playback and the ease/speed to "fast-forwarding" to a particular scene... Plus the quicker "download" onto my computer...
Thanks again Dan,
I really have NO IDEA what I am doing...
I'd like to do some light editting (maybe delete some scenes), but mainly I'd like to be able to combine 3 Mini-DVD's onto a single full-size DVD-R, for archiving and for sending to relatives... Just makes it easier to do one disc rather than 3...
The Sony came with Picture Perfect/Image Maker (or something like that, I know its probably pretty cheap). I think its by Pixela...
It allows editing (scene deletion and maybe music), but it is in the Mpeg format. In order to bring it back to the DVD format (.Vob, .IFO, etc), I need to "download" it to my camera (the only option with this program/version). Since I have a DVD burner, I wanted to send the info there, but it said I will need a separate DVD authoring program...
I thought (it was getting late) that I tried "playing" the MPEG video in the DVD player, and it didn't work... So maybe I DO have to convert back to .VOB, etc? Maybe I'll try again...
I do have Windows XP, so I will look at the Movie Maker and see if that will work for me...
I use Nero for burning...
I am not a "videophile" kind of guy... Actually got my DVD player 3 years ago, and have yet to play a "real" movie (only kids stuff)... Too busy to rent something and sit to watch (tried it once, but the movie the wife wanted was "out")... So the lower quality isn't a real big issue... These are amatuer home movies after all...
Someday (when I retire in 20+ years), maybe I'll sit down and edit all the movies together (thinking of one of those montage's for my daughter's wedding, etc), but thats years away (the oldest is only 3)...
Tony
Oops, sorry to hijack the thread...
I really have NO IDEA what I am doing...
I'd like to do some light editting (maybe delete some scenes), but mainly I'd like to be able to combine 3 Mini-DVD's onto a single full-size DVD-R, for archiving and for sending to relatives... Just makes it easier to do one disc rather than 3...
The Sony came with Picture Perfect/Image Maker (or something like that, I know its probably pretty cheap). I think its by Pixela...
It allows editing (scene deletion and maybe music), but it is in the Mpeg format. In order to bring it back to the DVD format (.Vob, .IFO, etc), I need to "download" it to my camera (the only option with this program/version). Since I have a DVD burner, I wanted to send the info there, but it said I will need a separate DVD authoring program...
I thought (it was getting late) that I tried "playing" the MPEG video in the DVD player, and it didn't work... So maybe I DO have to convert back to .VOB, etc? Maybe I'll try again...
I do have Windows XP, so I will look at the Movie Maker and see if that will work for me...
I use Nero for burning...
I am not a "videophile" kind of guy... Actually got my DVD player 3 years ago, and have yet to play a "real" movie (only kids stuff)... Too busy to rent something and sit to watch (tried it once, but the movie the wife wanted was "out")... So the lower quality isn't a real big issue... These are amatuer home movies after all...
Someday (when I retire in 20+ years), maybe I'll sit down and edit all the movies together (thinking of one of those montage's for my daughter's wedding, etc), but thats years away (the oldest is only 3)...
Tony
Oops, sorry to hijack the thread...
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