[metalchewy]

For this '70 Chevelle that I just rescued from being dumped in the desert, I havent been able to find a cowl tag anywhere in the boxes. There's still quite a bit to unload out of the car at this point.

I havent worked on a chevelle since the mid-80's, so I forget where the cowl tag is attached on these cars. The front-clip has been taken apart and off the car. Can anyone tell me which piece would have the cowl tag attached to it?

What can I learn about this car from the Vin Tag?

--Thanks

--Tom

 

[Rainer]

Look on the horizonal portion of the cowl panel, just rearward of the brake booster. Or in other words, 8-10 inches inside of the driver's side hood hinge. If the tag is missing, you'll see two 1/4in holes about 3in apart.

 

[Bill Pritchard]

What can I learn about this car from the Vin Tag?

Tom,

You can learn which assembly plant the car came from and whether it was originally a 6 cyl or 8 cyl engine (also discernible from the VIN), what exterior color it originally was, whether or not it had a vinyl top originally (and if so, what color it would have been), what color, fabric, and seat type (bench or bucket) the interior was, month and week that the body was assembled, and possibly a couple other minor trim items. It will NOT tell you if the car was originally an SS.

 

[metalchewy]

The cowl tag is definitely missing. Maybe it is in one of the boxes in the trunk (I hope).

With a Vin starting 136370L2xxxxx
1 - Cheverolet
3 - Chevelle
6 - V8
37 - 2-Door Sport Coupe
0 - 1970
L - Los Angeles Plant
2xxxxx - Sequential production number

Does GM keep records in a database that you can lookup a VIN and generate the original Build Sheet?

 

[Mr Chevelle]

I don't know the overall condition of your car/parts but is there any chance the build sheet is hiding somewhere?

 

[1badss396]

If you cant find it you can get a replacement one here http://www.trimtags.com/

 

[elcamino]

Does GM keep records in a database that you can lookup a VIN and generate the original Build Sheet?

NO

 

[DaleM]

The cowl tag is definitely missing. Maybe it is in one of the boxes in the trunk (I hope).

With a Vin starting 136370L2xxxxx
1 - Cheverolet
3 - Chevelle
6 - V8
37 - 2-Door Sport Coupe
0 - 1970
L - Los Angeles Plant
2xxxxx - Sequential production number

Does GM keep records in a database that you can lookup a VIN and generate the original Build Sheet?

Unfortuantely, GM has repeatedly said records of (our) older cars are not available and have been destroyed long ago.

FWIW, the body tag doesn't necessarily indicate a V8 or 6-cyl car either; it does represent a trim level. Fisher Body didn't care what engine was being installed but did care about the trim, both inside and out. Only the VIN will indicate a V8 or 6-cyl engine.

 

[elcamino]

fwiw
These are the only records you can get from GM. There is nothing else available except from Pontiac Historical Services and only for Pontiac's and Corvette's. Either way, NOT FROM GM but outside sources, Corvette Museum.



Allied Vaughn, a tier one supplier of GM, manages the General Motor Dealer Invoice service. For copies of a GM vehicle invoice, please email this form to the above email address. As of March 1, 2005, the cost for this service is $50.00 per invoice. If paying by credit card, your account will be charged within two business days of fulfillment. Fulfillment is expected to take 2 to 3 weeks. If paying by check or money order, please mail your check or money order and a copy of this form to:

Allied Vaughn
11923 Brookfield
Livonia, MI48150
Attention: Vehicle Invoice

Check or money order payments may cause a delay in fulfillment, as it
must clear before your order is shipped.

Invoices are available for vehicles* in the following model years:
Chevrolet since 1977
Pontiac since1987
Cadillac since 1980
Oldsmobile since 197
GMC since 1976

Please Note: Most requests for copies of dealer vehicle invoices are reproduced from microfilm and microfiche. Copies of these records may vary in quality, dependant on the condition of the archived record. We will attempt to give you the highest reproduction quality possible from these media sources. If the invoices are not legible, we will notify you.

 

[metalchewy]

I don't know the overall condition of your car/parts but is there any chance the build sheet is hiding somewhere?

With what I currently have of the car, I cant find the build sheet there. I still have some unloading todo and to go thru the boxes of stuff in the trunk.

There are still a few boxes coming that were in the guys garage, some with brand new parts, some with parts that were taken off the car. Maybe the trim tag and build sheet are located there.

Without either, I guess I build it the way I want it.

 

[glennslanaker]

i've got a question. i've always heard you could legally DUPLICATE a cowl tag, but what about if you don't have one and are just making it all up? is that legal? you could change a lot of things about a car. change the color from some nasty green or brown to a factory red, change the interior code from bench seat column shift to buckets, etc...
i personally think that would be more dishonest and alters the value/ integrity of the car a lot more than restamping a block which is generally frowned upon. opinions?

 

[DaleM]

i've got a question. i've always heard you could legally DUPLICATE a cowl tag, but what about if you don't have one and are just making it all up? is that legal? you could change a lot of things about a car. change the color from some nasty green or brown to a factory red, change the interior code from bench seat column shift to buckets, etc...
i personally think that would be more dishonest and alters the value/ integrity of the car a lot more than restamping a block which is generally frowned upon. opinions?

Yes, you can LEGALLY duplicate a body plate because the body plate does not legally identify the car in the eyes of the law. Ethically to change, or have a new plate made, is wrong IMO. You are representing the car as it is, now how it was originally. It also could (depending on year and plant) indicate options the car never had with the implication to the onlooker, the car is correct.

If there was/is a VIN derivative on the engine, it's illegal to alter that in many states, just as much as the VIN plate and for the same reason. Not because the law is looking out for us with bogus stamped parts but for theft recovery. In some states it's even illegal to replace an engine without telling the DMV so they can assign a VIN. I ran across that in Wisconsin statues researching an eBay seller trying to sell body plate, VIN plate, and even a title for a 64 or 65 SS.

 

[glennslanaker]

that's interesting dale. while i can understand why as car guys we don't want people altering cowl tags/ stamping engines/trans. but in the case of restamping a block, wouldn't that aid in helping law enforcement find lost vehicles? for example, your car get swiped and they part it out. well, if you had a non matching engine, you might not know what numbers are on your block unless you memorized them or wrote them down. BUT, if you restamped a block, it would be once again identifiable via the VIN. so, it looks like government should be encouraging block restamping. what would the possible down side be? i don't understand why they would care. and i really don't even care if i buy a car with a restamped block as long as it's correctly dated and done right and i don't ever find out.

 

[DaleM]

that's interesting dale. while i can understand why as car guys we don't want people altering cowl tags/ stamping engines/trans. but in the case of restamping a block, wouldn't that aid in helping law enforcement find lost vehicles?

Confused...you say we don't want people ...stamping engines... but restamping is ok?

for example, your car get swiped and they part it out. well, if you had a non matching engine, you might not know what numbers are on your block unless you memorized them or wrote them down. BUT, if you restamped a block, it would be once again identifiable via the VIN. so, it looks like government should be encouraging block restamping.

In 1968, federal law mandated a VIN derivative be stamped on the engine block to aid in recovery of stolen cars to identify the car/owner. If you stamp (or restamp) a VIN derivative to match YOUR car, I would assume you've now committed a federal crime for altering federally mandated identification. I know it's a crime in a number of states to alter a VIN regardless of where it is on a vehicle. Pay particular attention to section 4(a).

what would the possible down side be? i don't understand why they would care. and i really don't even care if i buy a car with a restamped block as long as it's correctly dated and done right and i don't ever find out.

Think about what the VIN is - a manufacturer's Vehicle Identification Number - it's stamped there to identify the vehicle. If it's ok to stamp/restamp an engine block, why wouldn't it be ok to simply change the VIN plate on the car itself to match an old title you have laying around because you don't want to go through the hassle of ordering a duplicate from your state? It's no different.

 

[glennslanaker]

"Confused...you say we don't want people ...stamping engines... but restamping is ok?"

i think you misunderstood me dale, i never said i was for it (restamping), my points were; 1. from a legal perspective, i don't know why they would care. you equated restamping to creating your own VIN plate to match a title, but i see a big difference between those acts. if a block is restamped, you aren't creating a "new" car. you are merely putting it back to the way it was. you aren't altering the vehicle indentity, it's still the same car, with the same vin. if, as in paragraph 4a they will seize your car for restamping, then they should be consistant and seize your car if you put a different engine in it, because the end result is the same, you are altering the vin derivitive found on the engine. and 2. i said i wouldn't care if i got a restamped car if i didn't know about it. this doesn't mean i am for it, just that i don't consider a big deal. is it fraud to pull some nice factory options from a buick and put them on your chevelle? i consider restamping along the same lines as that.

there's clearly inconsistancy in the law if they will legally let someone create a cowl tag, which has the first 5 digits of the vin on it among other key vehicle info, but they won't let you stamp a block.
thanks for the info and good converstion,
merry christmas,
g

 

[DaleM]

If you restamp and engine for one car with the VIN derivative of another, you aren't putting the car back together the way it was and if you read 1g, it does not state which number you cannot alter, it says, "...an identification number." That would include VIN plate, frame, engine, or any other part that has an identification number.

There are probably thousands of cars/trucks/motorcycles licensed and being driven everyday in Wisconsin (and millions throughout the US) that are, by the books, illegal. And probably unless law enforcement has a reason to suspect an individual of swapping VINs or restamping parts as a part of a larger illegal activity, such as a chop shop or transporting stolen cars out of the country, they probably are not going to persue the hobbiest to local mechanic for changing an engine and not reporting it to the DMV. But, when you purposely alter an identification number (whatever your good intentions - like making the engine VIN derivative match the vehicle's VIN so you won't have to remember what it is), and you get caught (therein lies the rub), the law can sieze your car.

Anyway, congrats on the desert find! Nice to know somebody with the determination to save and rebuild another classic Chevelle. :thumbsup:

 

[Rainer]

but in the case of restamping a block, wouldn't that aid in helping law enforcement find lost vehicles?

While it is possible that a restamp may help reunite a block with the car it was stolen from, its also very possible that a restamp would prevent law enforcement from determining the original identity of a block. So the scenario that law enforcement is most concerned about is a block that is stolen and then restamped to conceal that it was stolen. That is why it would be frowned upon rather than encouraged.

 

[69396ss]

So technically by Law, it would be illegal to mill your block during rebuild as it defaces the VIN.

Can you imagine the guy yelling at the engine shop for removing his original VIN stamp and being overheard by a Law enforcement officer who then has his vehicle siezed.

Sounds rediculous dosen't it?