[two junkers]

OK guys, clue me in. I understand that not all drag strips are created equal, but how come when some racers on this forum take their car out and run it, the first thing they say is "Well in Houston it would have been in the low ?s or high ?s"?
I always though the time it ran is the time it ran, no matter where or when, and those were the breaks.
It seems though, I was wrong again. If the car runs crappy, there is a safety net of claiming it wasn't in Houston with good air, or there was a head wind, etc.
The closest track to my home town is 36 miles away (Pueblo Motorsports Park). The wind always blows, the track gets dirt on it, and the elevation sucks the life out of NA motors. BUT, and we all have a big ol BUT, everyone racing there that day, races in those same conditions as the next guy. That's what determines winners and losers.
I think anyone that supports their local track is a winner. From the families running the mini dragsters to the people that just pay admission to watch (like me).
I was super proud of the Team Chevelle guys (Del and Bob West) when they got together for a race. That was true Americana. Just one guy and one car against the other. I never heard either one of them say "if it had only been in Houston", I could have run a better time, or even the old, "the time I did run would have been ??? in Houston".
I would suggest that the next person that uses the line "In Houston" as an excuse, consider using a better line of "On the Moon". Reason being, a 3700 pound Chevelle would only weigh 620 pounds! If you just happen to have a 620 HP motor .................. how cool! One horse per pound. I bet it would run in the low 10s or 9s for sure. Added bonus would be "NO HEAD WIND" and since it's over 200 thousand miles to the track, nobody you knew would be there to see if you screwed up a run or two. OK boys, flame on .................... If I don't reply right away, It's because I'm "in Houston".

 

[Todd69SS]

I figured Houston would be hot and muggy. I have a different excuse.. If I had a transmission and rear end, I'd probably be in the 9's

 

[Mike]

Air density.
Houston ,actually Baytown where the track is located ,is usually below sea level for air density.
Dense air = hp
Yeah ,humidity kills the air density but it's part of the calculator below.
Play with these:
http://www.dragtimes.com/da-density-altitude-calculator.php
http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp_abs.htm
http://www.dragtimes.com/da-density-altitude-calculator.php

 

[sleeper]

You know I thought those very same thoughts myself but I hadn't figured on the moon angle. If a person purchases an engine from any builder they should have a close idea of what it will run at their dragstrip, not ideal(or even better than ideal) conditions in Houston in January or February.

Lately there is always the spin put on things that "if this" or "if that" it will run "this". Well if I had picked the 5 best stocks of the Dow in 1999 I wouldn't have to work now. You've got what you've got until you make it faster.

I would like to hear someone say "That's all I got until I find more". Kinda like projecting how much money you will make on a poker game, you don't know how much money you will have until the dealing is done.

 

[greg_moreira]

In a lot of instances, there is concern about whether or not a car is "working" to its potential. Guys know what they weight and what the dyno says they should make....it just all comes down to whether or not they get down the track the way the numbers say they should.

Lots of guys with similar cars, combos, weight and the whole lot. One guy has seemingly perfect numbers, where another sometimes has numbers that dont quite meet expectation.

From there...you get guys largely comparing and contrasting weather and track conditions, because after all....its a variable that matters.

Since you mention Bob and Del.... say I put together a combo that looked a lot like Bobs for example. Say I had a lot of seat time and "should" have it all figured out by now, yet Bob has me by 2 tenths and a few mph all the time. Maybe I might want to ask Bob what I need to change to get my combo to work more like his.......but maybe I find that the only thing that needs to really change is the track surface and weather.

When everybody is trying to get the most out of their builds, and often using others cars as a baseline for what theirs might do..... all those factors come into play when trying to figure out if a guys build is on point, or off point.

If a group of guys run the same track on the same day then I agree...its not really a variable anymore and shouldnt be used to fairly compare one car to another when they were both at the same place and time. but....were all spread out all over the place on here.

 

[ChevelleRob]

being as a lot of members are from across the country some may post that simply for comparison as folks in Houston, or other low elevation tracks have an advantage to someone running in Denver ect...

 

[crazydavey]

what Greg said.....I like when guys can put up the weather where they ran, helps me validate my data. There has to be some kind of baseline or you're all over the place, that's why a lot of us hang out in this forum. Being able to feed off other's experiences probably has saved me a lot of passes to get the same info. The tracks I run at range from a DA of 1500' to over 5500' so it helps me out.

This thread is just an editorial, it has nothing to do with helping anyone...I'd rather hear about how someone ran in Pueblo and in what conditions, if anyone actually runs there....

 

[Greg Owens]

Edit: got treed! I had a call come in at work and everyone beat me to it!!

Correcting for altitude is a great way to normalize results so guys can bench race that live all over the country. At your local track on race day, sure it doesn't make a flip because everyone is running under the same conditions. But when a guy in Jacksonville, NC (also a sea level track) talks about his great numbers, it helps to know where they were run. The guy in Denver with the exact same setup wouldn't run anywhere near that number. It doesn't mean that he doesn't have a good chassis set up or know how to tune, it's just the weather.

 

[Orr89rocz]

You really should try to post up weather and DA conditions when posting track times. People may say that car has a motor more radical than mine but it only runs 12.7x when I run 12.2's, but without weather/altitude/DA etc, you could be comparing Bandimere in mid summer vs Englishtown in November where DA is 8000ft compared to -1000 ft. Thats a huge difference.
I like the idea of correcting to sealevel as long as everyone uses the same standard corrections.

Heres few examples about weather tho. Pittsburgh, 1200 ft altitude. My car went 10.02 at 140 on 14psi on a warmer than normal day and abit of a headwind. Next week or 2 later, it cooled off, no wind, good track conditions. Similar 60 foots, same 14psi boost, it went 9.86 at 141.
20 hours later i was in Maryland at MIR. No changes to the car after running that 9.86. It was 70 deg that day and calm in MD but it was closer to 50 deg in PA 20 hours ago. First pass, same 14psi, 9.86 at 139. Slight changes in weather 2-3 weeks apart can change everything. Changes in weather but big drop in altitude changes alot. 20 deg swing, but almost 1200 ft less altitude, roughly same times.

5months later I went to a tighter converter and back to Pittsburgh on a hot day with strong headwind, I had to go to 16.5 psi just to run 10.0's at 140. Car didnt 60 as well however but was down on power to begin with.


You ask me what my car will do, i'll say 9.86 at 141 as thats my best, but dont complain when you see me run 10.0's one day Weather could have been off

 

[two junkers]

what Greg said.....I like when guys can put up the weather where they ran, helps me validate my data. There has to be some kind of baseline or you're all over the place, that's why a lot of us hang out in this forum. Being able to feed off other's experiences probably has saved me a lot of passes to get the same info. The tracks I run at range from a DA of 1500' to over 5500' so it helps me out.

This thread is just an editorial, it has nothing to do with helping anyone...I'd rather hear about how someone ran in Pueblo and in what conditions, if anyone actually runs there....

Dave, I'm with you 100%. I think it is important that data be shared, but it should be TRUE data. For instance, If my car ran 10.03 in Denver, should I be telling everyone on the forum that the car would run 9.6 in Houston, when the Houston part is purely hypothetical? If the time wasn't made at the track as stated, what's the point of posting the numbers? Seems to me that doesn't help anyone either. I need one of these number GURUS to tell me what the lottery numbers will be if I go to the 7-11 on the south side of town three days from now when it's 62 degrees at 1:34 pm.

 

[Sean]

With enough corrective adjustments, we all run 9's

If it isn't on the time slip, you didn't run it.

It's as bad as corrected dyno numbers.

 

[MrToadsWildRide]

Dave, I'm with you 100%. I think it is important that data be shared, but it should be TRUE data. For instance, If my car ran 10.03 in Denver, should I be telling everyone on the forum that the car would run 9.6 in Houston, when the Houston part is purely hypothetical? If the time wasn't made at the track as stated, what's the point of posting the numbers? Seems to me that doesn't help anyone either. I need one of these number GURUS to tell me what the lottery numbers will be if I go to the 7-11 on the south side of town three days from now when it's 62 degrees at 1:34 pm.

So TRUE! If your car runs one thing one day at track A, next week at track B it might be hotter, or cooler and drier, you still have to have the knowlege to tune it to make it run it's best numbers. That includes the suspension. Calculaters don't turn wrenches, only theories.

 

[67Super Sport]

If you are a bracket racer with weather predictors you can take any weather conditions including barometric pressure (not station pressure, which is the baro corrected for altitude, which is also the number reported by weather stations or internet weather sites) and plug it into an ET calculator and come pretty darn close to what the car would run at any given track as long as the tune is right for those conditions. I race at a few different tracks throughout the year and my ET can vary as much as .2 under identical weather conditions just based on the track elevation. Some guys only race at one particular track so they may be chasing their tails and pounding their chest for no reason without taking track elevation into account. Of course there are other variables as well. Does your track have good track prep, does your track have a properly installed and calibrated timing system, etc.

 

[40Coupe]

Chad speaks truth.

 

[greg_moreira]

Dave, I'm with you 100%. I think it is important that data be shared, but it should be TRUE data. For instance, If my car ran 10.03 in Denver, should I be telling everyone on the forum that the car would run 9.6 in Houston, when the Houston part is purely hypothetical? If the time wasn't made at the track as stated, what's the point of posting the numbers? Seems to me that doesn't help anyone either. I need one of these number GURUS to tell me what the lottery numbers will be if I go to the 7-11 on the south side of town three days from now when it's 62 degrees at 1:34 pm.

Thats just the thing though... if a guy ran 10.03 on any given day, and states he wished he had that houston air because he'd be running 9.60's.....it might be real legit if the math works. Hypothetical estimate sure, but there is some science behind it. If you've seen enough of what your car does in varying weather, you can see the trends enough to be able to predict a pattern to an extent. Think about a bracket racer who is good enough to run rounds all day and night and win. As the mid day heat shifts to a cooler night with more humidity...the cars performance moves around. Still though, this bracket racer is on his dial. He knows how his car was gonna respond, and he dials accordingly.

Thats why you have to consider that the guy in question might have raced in weather just like those houston weather conditions he's talking about. So...he knows what his car would do.

Either way.....there is validity and it does help everybody compare and contrast.

 

[crazydavey]

Dave, I'm with you 100%. I think it is important that data be shared, but it should be TRUE data. For instance, If my car ran 10.03 in Denver, should I be telling everyone on the forum that the car would run 9.6 in Houston, when the Houston part is purely hypothetical? If the time wasn't made at the track as stated, what's the point of posting the numbers? Seems to me that doesn't help anyone either. I need one of these number GURUS to tell me what the lottery numbers will be if I go to the 7-11 on the south side of town three days from now when it's 62 degrees at 1:34 pm.

Arlo I guess we sorta agree, I'm not saying to post a number that has been "corrected". I'm just saying if you run your car at Pueblo and that day it's 6700' DA post that (and any other weather you have) with your number so I can relate to it. If I'm at Fontana that day and it's 3000' then I know what you'd be running (approx) so comparing your set up to mine is relevant. It's just info that helps everybody I think.

As far as Houston, I think that's just because we have some regular posters who live over that way so negative air gets reported. I had a chance one time to run in negative air up in Sacramento but it was so cold the track just couldn't hold anything. Except for that the best air I've been able to run in was about 600' and that was for 3 passes. The rest of the time it's been 1500'+....

I would like to try some of that air sometime but it doesn't have to be in Houston, they talk funny down there anyway....

 

[66360horse]

Maybe houston in the winter, dec jan feb but I have lived here for the last 3 years and I tell you,during the summer,no car runs well in a sauna!