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just ordered a set of the patriot aluminum bbc heads and a Howards hyd roller cam 222/234 .577/.579 on 112. 9.5 to 1, 502. wanting a torque monster for a 63 vette with a 4 speed.
comments on my 502 combo
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3.70 gears and an m21 4 speed. any guesstimates on hp and torque?
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drive shaft has all new spicer u-joints but i have not touched the 1/2 shafts
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2,643 Posts
I venture 550+HP since it's basically a ZZ502 with better heads. You really need more lift to take advantage of those heads, at least .650". I would look at something around 248/256, basically along the lines of Edelbrock's upgrade package for the 502.
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IMO, If you want a torque monster, this combo is a little bit of a mis-match. Big port heads that will carry that motor to at least 7k rpms but a cam that will give out around 5500.
I think you would have been better served by using a set of oval port heads. Brodix Race Rites if you want aftermarket alloy heads or a set of 049 or 781's reworked with bigger valves and bowl porting. This is just my opinion.
Kettbo has it right.... more lift & duration and spin it higher. Makes for a better combination for a Corvette. :thumbsup:
For comparison I run a 233/236, .600/.610 112LSa hyd roller in a 469" motor with Dart Pro 1 310CC heads. Motor pulls very hard to 6000+. I run a 10" 2400 stall converter (stalls at 2500) and 3.73 gears. This motor has a lot of torque from 1500-2000 right on up. THe 224 intake lobe will peak at 5200 or so in a 500" motor. Don't know about 20* more, but I would step the cam up to a 232-236 intake lobe.
I would have to agree here......I only have a 305cc head on my 496 that turns 7k.IMO, If you want a torque monster, this combo is a little bit of a mis-match. Big port heads that will carry that motor to at least 7k rpms but a cam that will give out around 5500.
I think you would have been better served by using a set of oval port heads. Brodix Race Rites if you want aftermarket alloy heads or a set of 049 or 781's reworked with bigger valves and bowl porting. This is just my opinion.
For reference, my 68 RatVette has 432 cubes, big valve 781s open chamber heads, 10.25:1 with L2278 domed-TRWs. Engine is backed by the OE M-20 and 3.36 out back. Cam is an Erson 235/235* @ .050" .542/.542" lift 111 LSA with an EDDY RPM intake. Good luck using 3310 Holley and Eddy 800 AVS carbs.
She sounds mean at idle even with stock ext manifolds and a repro ext system. However, the power is there off-idle up to over 6000....6500. Maybe I'm not feeling the very low end power as weak due to the 'light weight' nature of the Vette. Runs like a strong 350 just cruising, good manners, but a snarling beast when you open the other half of the carb.
Same cam in a larger 454 would be 'done' by 5800
same cam in a 496 502 and it would be 'done' by 5200
With this above info for comparative purposes, take your cam.....right-sized for a 396 or 427 for hi-perf street, mild strip action...put it in a big engine and you'll be on here in a few weeks asking "Why does my 502 pull like a bat outa hell to 4900 rpm then quit pulling?"
Your Patriot heads and RPM intake can support 6500 rpm and 502 cubes. So why choke things with a small camshaft that will be done before 5000 rpm?
So, if you love your cam choice, to make the best match of stuff, I suggest you downgrade your heads for that mondo cruser stump puller you are talking about....that will with your cam sign off early?
For reference, let me play another situation for you:
I am going to use a Crane 226/226* .533/.533 108 LSA in a stump-puller bottom-feeder low buck 8.8:1 CR 454 for my Elky. With my cast pistons....Perf 2-O intake, things will need to be done at 5500 rpm.....so my cam of choice power band drops off there...as well as the power in my closed chamber, basically stock 1968 #063 heads.....everything all matched-up. Should work great in my 70 Elky with modest 3.42 gearing
With your existing combo, HP won't be all that as the cam will sign off before things get exciting....big horsepower numbers require a cam with rpm potential due to the formula that calculates HP. Too small a cam in too big of an engine. Thinking 400 horse but 550 ft lbs torque. Your 63 Vette will simply win every burn-out contest you enter and better get to know a tire dealer...you'll be there a lot. Not trying to be harsh here.....but you need a bigger cam, bare minimum 234 intake and 244 exhaust. Unleash the beast.
I'm going by experience. Best if you get in touch with cstraub or UDHarold or wolfplace for more exact cam ideas
She sounds mean at idle even with stock ext manifolds and a repro ext system. However, the power is there off-idle up to over 6000....6500. Maybe I'm not feeling the very low end power as weak due to the 'light weight' nature of the Vette. Runs like a strong 350 just cruising, good manners, but a snarling beast when you open the other half of the carb.
Same cam in a larger 454 would be 'done' by 5800
same cam in a 496 502 and it would be 'done' by 5200
With this above info for comparative purposes, take your cam.....right-sized for a 396 or 427 for hi-perf street, mild strip action...put it in a big engine and you'll be on here in a few weeks asking "Why does my 502 pull like a bat outa hell to 4900 rpm then quit pulling?"
Your Patriot heads and RPM intake can support 6500 rpm and 502 cubes. So why choke things with a small camshaft that will be done before 5000 rpm?
So, if you love your cam choice, to make the best match of stuff, I suggest you downgrade your heads for that mondo cruser stump puller you are talking about....that will with your cam sign off early?
For reference, let me play another situation for you:
I am going to use a Crane 226/226* .533/.533 108 LSA in a stump-puller bottom-feeder low buck 8.8:1 CR 454 for my Elky. With my cast pistons....Perf 2-O intake, things will need to be done at 5500 rpm.....so my cam of choice power band drops off there...as well as the power in my closed chamber, basically stock 1968 #063 heads.....everything all matched-up. Should work great in my 70 Elky with modest 3.42 gearing
With your existing combo, HP won't be all that as the cam will sign off before things get exciting....big horsepower numbers require a cam with rpm potential due to the formula that calculates HP. Too small a cam in too big of an engine. Thinking 400 horse but 550 ft lbs torque. Your 63 Vette will simply win every burn-out contest you enter and better get to know a tire dealer...you'll be there a lot. Not trying to be harsh here.....but you need a bigger cam, bare minimum 234 intake and 244 exhaust. Unleash the beast.
I'm going by experience. Best if you get in touch with cstraub or UDHarold or wolfplace for more exact cam ideas
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48 Posts
thanks for all the input. i called competition products and was able to switch cams before it shipped. went with this.
Duration @ .050": 236/242
Adv. Duration: 294/302
Lift: .620/.635
Lobe Sep: 112 Deg.
2500-6000,
what do you think?
Duration @ .050": 236/242
Adv. Duration: 294/302
Lift: .620/.635
Lobe Sep: 112 Deg.
2500-6000,
what do you think?
Much more suitable IMHO!
Bigger so the heads will work for you
Not so big as to kill the bottom-end power....idle should be very good
The midrange will pull the paint off your car!
This cam will pull to 5800 by my estimate. The factory estimates are for smaller engines unless it says 502 RPM range....
Anybody else wanna chime in?
Where are the pics?
Bigger so the heads will work for you
Not so big as to kill the bottom-end power....idle should be very good
The midrange will pull the paint off your car!
This cam will pull to 5800 by my estimate. The factory estimates are for smaller engines unless it says 502 RPM range....
Anybody else wanna chime in?
Where are the pics?
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I'll chime in...much better! But, how about have comp or Lunati make it for you. Pretty sure the Howard's cams are a cast-type core. Go with a steel or billet core. That way you can put some spring pressure on there. Plus, the Lunati at least has a cast iron gear pressed on, so you dont need to run a bronze gear - this is a big deal!
PS - you will need a bronzed-tipped fuel pump pushrod for a steel or billet cam. A 20.00 item.
PS - you will need a bronzed-tipped fuel pump pushrod for a steel or billet cam. A 20.00 item.
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142 Posts
Those specs are very close to the Crane-Z cam HR I run in my 468. It pulls a little past 6000 with no issues. I would guess that cam should take a 502 to 5800 as others have indicated. Crane uses the pressed on cast iron gear on many of their billet grinds. if I end up buliding a 509 this fall I am going to use the same cam and heads that are on/in my 468 now.
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