Chevelle COPO
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You will need to put the build sheet info on the site. 69's weren't tracked by SS option as far as quantity goes, only that LOTS of 69 Chevelle V8 HT and Converts were sold. The COPO might be an adder but remember that something as simple as the color may have required it. Unless of course if its a 427 with all the order and build docs. They are worth the extra bucks.
Well, first things first...lets make sure it it a TRUE 9562 COPO Chevelle:
1) Engine code-the block, if its original, should be stamped MQ if its an automatic car, and should be a 512 casting, which was the L-72 block.
2) Transmission code-if its the original trans, it will be the 400 Turbohydramatic, and will be tagged CX. This trans was the heavy duty version used in the L-72 and L-78 cars, and included the special 6-lug torque converter. Also, there were fewer automatics than 4 speeds, so this adds to the value.
3) Axle housing-if its the original housing, then it will be stamped KQ, which meant it was the 4.10 posi, with heavy duty internals. This is normally the first thing people look at to determine if its a COPO, as its the hardest to obtain.
4) Documentation-if the drivetrain is not original, then documentation is a must. This could be a build sheet, window sticker, invoice, anything proving its a true COPO. Any documentation raises the value of any classic car.
If you are lucky enough to have one of the 323 COPO Chevelles produced in '69, then you are in very rare company. These cars bring somewhere around $40,000, + or - depending on the quality of the restoration, and are known as some of the quickest muscle cars ever.
Good Luck!
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Rob Clary
'70 LS-6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold Member #85
Interested in COPOs, Yenkos or other dealer built muscle cars then go here:
ortrackm.missouri.org/~yenko
[This message has been edited by Chevy454 (edited 06-16-99).]
1) Engine code-the block, if its original, should be stamped MQ if its an automatic car, and should be a 512 casting, which was the L-72 block.
2) Transmission code-if its the original trans, it will be the 400 Turbohydramatic, and will be tagged CX. This trans was the heavy duty version used in the L-72 and L-78 cars, and included the special 6-lug torque converter. Also, there were fewer automatics than 4 speeds, so this adds to the value.
3) Axle housing-if its the original housing, then it will be stamped KQ, which meant it was the 4.10 posi, with heavy duty internals. This is normally the first thing people look at to determine if its a COPO, as its the hardest to obtain.
4) Documentation-if the drivetrain is not original, then documentation is a must. This could be a build sheet, window sticker, invoice, anything proving its a true COPO. Any documentation raises the value of any classic car.
If you are lucky enough to have one of the 323 COPO Chevelles produced in '69, then you are in very rare company. These cars bring somewhere around $40,000, + or - depending on the quality of the restoration, and are known as some of the quickest muscle cars ever.
Good Luck!
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Rob Clary
'70 LS-6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold Member #85
Interested in COPOs, Yenkos or other dealer built muscle cars then go here:
ortrackm.missouri.org/~yenko
[This message has been edited by Chevy454 (edited 06-16-99).]
I'll have to disagree that the COPO automatics are worth more because fewer were built. An automatic is GENERALLY considered less desirable in today's musclecar market, and it probably wasn't that desirable back then, which is why few were ordered.
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Rainer - Team Chevelle #50 - Gold Member
'68 SS396
'70 LS3 400 Malibu
& the newest - '70 Malibu convertible!
[email protected]
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Rainer - Team Chevelle #50 - Gold Member
'68 SS396
'70 LS3 400 Malibu
& the newest - '70 Malibu convertible!
[email protected]
Automatics not desirable? Have you ever tried to launch a 4 speed car? Its next to impossible with a very stout motor! Its tons easier to take off with an automatic. When we drive ours hard(we've even been known to race it) the automatic proves to be the easiest and quickest car. I'll agree that there were fewer automatics ordered, but simple economics (supply vs. demand) suggests that the automatic cars are worth more. It seems that the trend today is toward automatic cars anyway, which suggests that there must be a performance edge there somewhere.
Oh, by the way...when we were looking around for our '69 Yenko Camaro (also a COPO), we didn't even consider a 4 speed car. Check your Hemmings and see how many 4 speed COPOs there are compared to automatics, and then compare the prices. I think you'll see a difference.
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Rob Clary
'70 LS-6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold Member #85
Interested in COPOs, Yenkos or other dealer built muscle cars then go here:
ortrackm.missouri.org/~yenko
[This message has been edited by Chevy454 (edited 06-17-99).]
Oh, by the way...when we were looking around for our '69 Yenko Camaro (also a COPO), we didn't even consider a 4 speed car. Check your Hemmings and see how many 4 speed COPOs there are compared to automatics, and then compare the prices. I think you'll see a difference.
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Rob Clary
'70 LS-6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold Member #85
Interested in COPOs, Yenkos or other dealer built muscle cars then go here:
ortrackm.missouri.org/~yenko
[This message has been edited by Chevy454 (edited 06-17-99).]
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The COPO automatics were no ordinary slush boxes, the were called 'Bang Screetch' automtics. They had small 11' 6-cylinder torque converters which raised the stall speed from a normal 1600 rpm to 2000-2200 rpm. Also they operated with higher pressures to make them shift firmly to make the clutch packs live & keep it cooler; and they would upshift as high as 6200 rpm! I wouldn't mind one myself!
Rob,
That is not true that more people desire automatics.I was down at a classic car place in Tarpon and they can't seem to get rid of the automatics.The manager said they can sell a 4 speed within a week.Example was a L78 Camaro and LS6 Chevelle.He said if these cars had sticks they would have long been gone.
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Dean Ciampi
Autumn Gold 1970 LS6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold #52 Aces #3094
That is not true that more people desire automatics.I was down at a classic car place in Tarpon and they can't seem to get rid of the automatics.The manager said they can sell a 4 speed within a week.Example was a L78 Camaro and LS6 Chevelle.He said if these cars had sticks they would have long been gone.
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Dean Ciampi
Autumn Gold 1970 LS6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold #52 Aces #3094
STICK vs. AUTOMATIC
Earlier, when I made the statement "automatic cars are worth more", I was referring to the low production cars, such as the COPOs. There were way too many L-78s and LS-6s were produced to justify this statement, but I believe the COPOs and Yenkos prove my point. Around 1/3 of the COPO cars that Yenko recieved were automatics, and this just about holds true with production figures. This is easily understood if you are looking to purchase one of these rare cars, as the automatic cars are rarer, and the price reflects accordingly. When we went to buy a '69 Yenko Camaro, we went to a private collection in Nashville, TN, which contained about 20 '69 Yenkos at the time, less than a 1/3 of these cars were automatics. Naturally, the prices of the automatics were higher. Was the owner of these cars wrong for pricing the automatics higher than the 4 speed cars? I don't think so!
Here's just an example why:
Take a look at the picture below. This was taken from the January '99 issue of Super Chevy: ortrackm.missouri.org/~yenko/PAGE1.jpg
That's me driving the Yellow Yenko. Notice the tire smoke on the Orange Yenko? Its hard to see in the picture, but I saw it in person, and have a video of it, and there was a lot more where that came from. I'm not even mentioning the fact that he red lighted! Agreed, the red light was due partly to driver error. Now notice my car. No smoke, the rear end is squatting, and I'm fixing to easily run off and leave the other car. I ran an 8.8 1/8 mile, which roughly converts to mid-to-low 13s. All this on Polyglas tires, only the second time I've ever drove the car, but I had an automatic. This enabled me to launch much easier and more consistent. Both of these cars were setup exactly the same....stock! Automatics are just easier to drive, therefore they produce quicker and more consistent ETs, and are what people who keep there cars stock but drive them are looking for.
Just look around and try to buy one of each, an automatic and a 4 speed, both cars in comparable condition, and see what you come up with. I think you might be surprised.
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Rob Clary
'70 LS-6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold Member #85
Interested in COPOs, Yenkos or other dealer built muscle cars then go here: ortrackm.missouri.org/~yenko
[This message has been edited by Chevy454 (edited 06-17-99).]
Earlier, when I made the statement "automatic cars are worth more", I was referring to the low production cars, such as the COPOs. There were way too many L-78s and LS-6s were produced to justify this statement, but I believe the COPOs and Yenkos prove my point. Around 1/3 of the COPO cars that Yenko recieved were automatics, and this just about holds true with production figures. This is easily understood if you are looking to purchase one of these rare cars, as the automatic cars are rarer, and the price reflects accordingly. When we went to buy a '69 Yenko Camaro, we went to a private collection in Nashville, TN, which contained about 20 '69 Yenkos at the time, less than a 1/3 of these cars were automatics. Naturally, the prices of the automatics were higher. Was the owner of these cars wrong for pricing the automatics higher than the 4 speed cars? I don't think so!
Here's just an example why:
Take a look at the picture below. This was taken from the January '99 issue of Super Chevy: ortrackm.missouri.org/~yenko/PAGE1.jpg
That's me driving the Yellow Yenko. Notice the tire smoke on the Orange Yenko? Its hard to see in the picture, but I saw it in person, and have a video of it, and there was a lot more where that came from. I'm not even mentioning the fact that he red lighted! Agreed, the red light was due partly to driver error. Now notice my car. No smoke, the rear end is squatting, and I'm fixing to easily run off and leave the other car. I ran an 8.8 1/8 mile, which roughly converts to mid-to-low 13s. All this on Polyglas tires, only the second time I've ever drove the car, but I had an automatic. This enabled me to launch much easier and more consistent. Both of these cars were setup exactly the same....stock! Automatics are just easier to drive, therefore they produce quicker and more consistent ETs, and are what people who keep there cars stock but drive them are looking for.
Just look around and try to buy one of each, an automatic and a 4 speed, both cars in comparable condition, and see what you come up with. I think you might be surprised.
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Rob Clary
'70 LS-6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold Member #85
Interested in COPOs, Yenkos or other dealer built muscle cars then go here: ortrackm.missouri.org/~yenko
[This message has been edited by Chevy454 (edited 06-17-99).]
Performance advantage..... sure I will give you that,but when someone is buying an original,#s matching,blah,blah,blah I really don't think they care about that tenth of a second.The 4speed is more nostalgic.Most people like rowing through the gears.Its traditional with muscle cars and thats what it boils down to.I am not saying that autos aren't MUSCLE but stereotypical the 4speed represents the muscle era and thats what people want.Example..The LS5 Chevelle is rarer then the LS6 but that doesn't mean the LS5 is worth more.The LS6 is worth more because of the power but most of all because of legend.Just like the 4speed
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Dean Ciampi
Autumn Gold 1970 LS6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold #52 Aces #3094
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Dean Ciampi
Autumn Gold 1970 LS6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold #52 Aces #3094
Dean:
As much as I hate to admit it, you are right about the nostalgia thing. After I wrote the post above, I thought about what had been said. Even today, there are people that expect a performance car to have a manual tranny. And, as best as I can tell, this was the trend, back in the day. I was just trying to show our point of view, as with our muscle cars, we tend to lean towards automatics. And before anyone asks, yes, we have owned and do own some rare muscle cars, both 4 speeds and automatics. If it was me, though, I would opt for the automatic. But, then again, maybe that is because we drive/race our cars.
I was just trying to point out what seemed to be the norm among Yenko owners/collectors, as the automatic cars are rare and very sought after. BUT, if you like the arm exercise, or are nostalgic, then the standard tranny seems to be the cure. Does this nostalgia thing coincide with mid-life crisis by any chance? Hmm....I hope my dad doesn't get any ideas!
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Rob Clary
'70 LS-6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold Member #85
Interested in COPOs, Yenkos or other dealer built muscle cars then go here:
ortrackm.missouri.org/~yenko
As much as I hate to admit it, you are right about the nostalgia thing. After I wrote the post above, I thought about what had been said. Even today, there are people that expect a performance car to have a manual tranny. And, as best as I can tell, this was the trend, back in the day. I was just trying to show our point of view, as with our muscle cars, we tend to lean towards automatics. And before anyone asks, yes, we have owned and do own some rare muscle cars, both 4 speeds and automatics. If it was me, though, I would opt for the automatic. But, then again, maybe that is because we drive/race our cars.
I was just trying to point out what seemed to be the norm among Yenko owners/collectors, as the automatic cars are rare and very sought after. BUT, if you like the arm exercise, or are nostalgic, then the standard tranny seems to be the cure. Does this nostalgia thing coincide with mid-life crisis by any chance? Hmm....I hope my dad doesn't get any ideas!
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Rob Clary
'70 LS-6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold Member #85
Interested in COPOs, Yenkos or other dealer built muscle cars then go here:
ortrackm.missouri.org/~yenko
Rob,
I race up in Gainsville FL a lot.Autos are more consistent and usually quicker.I had a 70 Chevelle auto with a 502 crate motor.Very fast and consistent!I dont race my LS6(only once)but I have a 96 ram air Firebird with a 6speed that runs low 12s on drag radials.All in all its a matter of preference.I just prefer the work out I guess......
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Dean Ciampi
Autumn Gold 1970 LS6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold #52 Aces #3094
I race up in Gainsville FL a lot.Autos are more consistent and usually quicker.I had a 70 Chevelle auto with a 502 crate motor.Very fast and consistent!I dont race my LS6(only once)but I have a 96 ram air Firebird with a 6speed that runs low 12s on drag radials.All in all its a matter of preference.I just prefer the work out I guess......
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Dean Ciampi
Autumn Gold 1970 LS6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold #52 Aces #3094
Dean:
You should consider coming to the Supercar Reunion in Springfield, MO, and bring your LS-6. We're gonna cruise 'em (I think) Saturday night, then run 'em Sunday. It should be lots of fun, plus it would be neat to have 2 true LS-6 cars race each other! There should be lots of rare cars there, showing and racing, and it will be a good spot to try out my Chevelle after the rebuild. Heck, I might even learn something about driving a stick!
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Rob Clary
'70 LS-6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold Member #85
Interested in COPOs, Yenkos or other dealer built muscle cars then go here:
ortrackm.missouri.org/~yenko
You should consider coming to the Supercar Reunion in Springfield, MO, and bring your LS-6. We're gonna cruise 'em (I think) Saturday night, then run 'em Sunday. It should be lots of fun, plus it would be neat to have 2 true LS-6 cars race each other! There should be lots of rare cars there, showing and racing, and it will be a good spot to try out my Chevelle after the rebuild. Heck, I might even learn something about driving a stick!
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Rob Clary
'70 LS-6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold Member #85
Interested in COPOs, Yenkos or other dealer built muscle cars then go here:
ortrackm.missouri.org/~yenko
Rob,
Sounds like fun.I may try to make it if work permits.How about driving south to the Super Chevy Show in Gainsville in October??Lot of cool Chevys running really fast!I missed last year(drove the Hot Rod Power Tour -Ocala-St.Pete).Won't miss this year!
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Dean Ciampi
Autumn Gold 1970 LS6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold #52 Aces #3094
Sounds like fun.I may try to make it if work permits.How about driving south to the Super Chevy Show in Gainsville in October??Lot of cool Chevys running really fast!I missed last year(drove the Hot Rod Power Tour -Ocala-St.Pete).Won't miss this year!
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Dean Ciampi
Autumn Gold 1970 LS6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold #52 Aces #3094
Rob -
My assessment of automatics being less desirable than 4 speeds is for the general muscle car market, which is why I emphasized the word GENERALLY in my original post. If you check out some of the price guides on the market, the 4-speed usually adds a premium over the automatic. Also, as Dean indicated, if you talk to the dealers that buy and sell for a living, they will acknowledge that the 4-speeds sell quicker, because there is more of a demand for them.
For the ultra rare cars like Yenkos and COPOs, there probably isn't really much of a difference in value between an automatic and a 4-speed car. For those, it comes down to personal preference, and for someone like yourself who prefers automatics, you're probably willing to pay a little more for one.
Finally, like Dean said, the nostalgia factor plays a big role. The Beach Boys (or was that Jan & Dean?) weren't singing about an automatic in that ole 409...
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Rainer - Team Chevelle #50 - Gold Member
'68 SS396
'70 LS3 400 Malibu
& the newest - '70 Malibu convertible!
[email protected]
My assessment of automatics being less desirable than 4 speeds is for the general muscle car market, which is why I emphasized the word GENERALLY in my original post. If you check out some of the price guides on the market, the 4-speed usually adds a premium over the automatic. Also, as Dean indicated, if you talk to the dealers that buy and sell for a living, they will acknowledge that the 4-speeds sell quicker, because there is more of a demand for them.
For the ultra rare cars like Yenkos and COPOs, there probably isn't really much of a difference in value between an automatic and a 4-speed car. For those, it comes down to personal preference, and for someone like yourself who prefers automatics, you're probably willing to pay a little more for one.
Finally, like Dean said, the nostalgia factor plays a big role. The Beach Boys (or was that Jan & Dean?) weren't singing about an automatic in that ole 409...
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Rainer - Team Chevelle #50 - Gold Member
'68 SS396
'70 LS3 400 Malibu
& the newest - '70 Malibu convertible!
[email protected]
Thanks for summing it up Rainer.Oh by the way it was the Beach Boys...A 4speed duel quad positraction 409.My dad bought one new at the tender age of 21.Anniversary gold '62 409 convertible.See I am not that old!Pops still wishes he had the car
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Dean Ciampi
Autumn Gold 1970 LS6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold #52 Aces #3094
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Dean Ciampi
Autumn Gold 1970 LS6 Chevelle
Team Chevelle Gold #52 Aces #3094
When I bought my 69SS convertible I would have taken an Auto or 4-speed. (I got a 4-speed). One thing about the Auto that would have turned me off is if the Auto was on the column. To me that drops the value somewhat.
But everyone has there preference. When I'm stuck in rush hour traffic an Auto would be nice. C-ya Tom...
But everyone has there preference. When I'm stuck in rush hour traffic an Auto would be nice. C-ya Tom...
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