Team Chevelle banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part September's Ride of the Month Challenge!
1 - 20 of 43 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I have had the Chevelle for a month now and took the motor out to fix some oil leaks, but as I started looking deeper I decided it really needed an overhaul. Its a good thing for intuition 1 main and 1 rod was hitting copper on the bearings, the valves were starting to lose their seats and I found the broken cap of one of the 3 cam bolts in the oil pump pickup along with what looks like a short head bolt that somehow was an extra and ended up in the oil pan. So its a 69 396 bored 30 over, the crank has been cut and the heads are from an early 70's 402/454. I guess these are the domed pistons and I dont know how many flavors of domed GM used as I see several CR's for these engines. So does any know what pistons these are? There are no other markings except "up" 2010 for one bank and 2009 for the other. I dont see any brand name.



But what I am really trying to figure out is what cam to use. This will be my streetcar daily driver, it has a 600 cfm holley which I want to stay with. 4sp muncie, 375 gears and 27" tires. Im not a street racer anymore ( I dont go hunting) but I do have a buddy building a goat so, that day will come.
I would appreciate any feedback on the guys out there that have streetcars and dont own gas stations and are happy with their cams. The car runs fine on pump 93 oct. and Im ok with that.

Hope to pay you back some day with any help I can offer, this has been a great forum for information with the Chevelle.
 

Attachments

·
Vendor
Joined
·
9,376 Posts
My best selling semi custom for BBC is my GTA288-300 camshaft. Here it is in a 396/350HP engine that is factory stock but upgraded to a hyd roller valvetrain...

Rectangle Slope Font Tree Parallel
 

·
Premium Member
1968 Malibu sport coupe, 489 ci. 590 hp 600 tq, RV T-400 Freakshow 3200 stall, 3.73 12 bolt posi
Joined
·
9,105 Posts
That's a nice flat torque line, be a scary EKG though lol
 

·
Registered
1968 Chevelle Malibu, upgraded to a 396/TH400 from a 327/PG
Joined
·
691 Posts
So I have had the Chevelle for a month now and took the motor out to fix some oil leaks, but as I started looking deeper I decided it really needed an overhaul. Its a good thing for intuition 1 main and 1 rod was hitting copper on the bearings, the valves were starting to lose their seats and I found the broken cap of one of the 3 cam bolts in the oil pump pickup along with what looks like a short head bolt that somehow was an extra and ended up in the oil pan. So its a 69 396 bored 30 over, the crank has been cut and the heads are from an early 70's 402/454. I guess these are the domed pistons and I dont know how many flavors of domed GM used as I see several CR's for these engines. So does any know what pistons these are? There are no other markings except "up" 2010 for one bank and 2009 for the other. I dont see any brand name.



But what I am really trying to figure out is what cam to use. This will be my streetcar daily driver, it has a 600 cfm holley which I want to stay with. 4sp muncie, 375 gears and 27" tires. Im not a street racer anymore ( I dont go hunting) but I do have a buddy building a goat so, that day will come.
I would appreciate any feedback on the guys out there that have streetcars and dont own gas stations and are happy with their cams. The car runs fine on pump 93 oct. and Im ok with that.

Hope to pay you back some day with any help I can offer, this has been a great forum for information with the Chevelle.
Go with what Chris recommends. The man has an awesome reputation for a reason. I know you’re happy with your 600 Holley. But, I’d recommend a bit more. Maybe a 750.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,679 Posts
Looks like a Keith Black piston. You aren't alone searching for what that those pistons are:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
My best selling semi custom for BBC is my GTA288-300 camshaft. Here it is in a 396/350HP engine that is factory stock but upgraded to a hyd roller valvetrain...

View attachment 720925
My best selling semi custom for BBC is my GTA288-300 camshaft. Here it is in a 396/350HP engine that is factory stock but upgraded to a hyd roller valvetrain...

View attachment 720925
What is the name brand? Im anal about using good name brands. My shop was located near a Crane machine shop before they closed down so I used a lot of their cams. Closed my shop about 30 years ago and just started with cars again so Im out of the loop. Also would like to stay with a flat hydraulic valve train.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Go with what Chris recommends. The man has an awesome reputation for a reason. I know you’re happy with your 600 Holley. But, I’d recommend a bit more. Maybe a 750.
I have a 750 DP, by AED on my 502 crate motor. It came with an 870 Street avenger, motor ran rich and the secondary's barely opened. Holley and AED both recommended downsizing to the 750 for the street and the car runs great with it. Although I only drove the Chevelle for an 1 1/2 hours before tear down it seemed to run fine. Thanks for the input
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,093 Posts
What is the name brand? Im anal about using good name brands. My shop was located near a Crane machine shop before they closed down so I used a lot of their cams. Closed my shop about 30 years ago and just started with cars again so Im out of the loop. Also would like to stay with a flat hydraulic valve train.

The cams that Chris is talking about were designed by him. They will out perform the 'name brand' cams any day of the week. Just follow his recommendation and you will be happy with the results.

 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,246 Posts
Your piston is an old Perfect Circle Dana number. The actual part number is 224-2209 and 224-2210 It crosses to a Sealed Power 460P but is not really the same because the 460P is made to go in either side. The 2209 / 2210 had to go in the correct bank. The 460P says it is 9.6 to 1 compression but does not say with which head. It is pretty much a stock replacement piston for those years 396.

I think I have an old Perfect Circle catalog somewhere at home. I will try to find it and see if it says any different.

Also, what casting number are your heads ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,902 Posts
I was going to say it looked like the 396/325 piston.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leadhead

·
Premium Member
1968 Malibu sport coupe, 489 ci. 590 hp 600 tq, RV T-400 Freakshow 3200 stall, 3.73 12 bolt posi
Joined
·
9,105 Posts
The only HFT cam I would even consider using (And I wouldn't use anything but a roller) would be a hyd flat tappet cam from CamKing Mike Jones, way too many Horror stories of cams and lifters going flat lately, unless you can find NOS cam & lifters
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
9,376 Posts
What is the name brand? Im anal about using good name brands. My shop was located near a Crane machine shop before they closed down so I used a lot of their cams. Closed my shop about 30 years ago and just started with cars again so Im out of the loop. Also would like to stay with a flat hydraulic valve train.
My teacher was John Reed.
That cam is one of my GTA, Greater Torque Area....as you can see by the dyno sheet the name is not marketing....it is reality.
We are located in NE TN. www.straubtechnologies.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Your piston is an old Perfect Circle Dana number. The actual part number is 224-2209 and 224-2210 It crosses to a Sealed Power 460P but is not really the same because the 460P is made to go in either side. The 2209 / 2210 had to go in the correct bank. The 460P says it is 9.6 to 1 compression but does not say with which head. It is pretty much a stock replacement piston for those years 396.

I think I have an old Perfect Circle catalog somewhere at home. I will try to find it and see if it says any different.

Also, what casting number are your heads ?
Thats correct the 2209 and 2210 were on opposite banks. The heads are 3993820 supposedly 105 cc, I measured the valves, 2.06/1.75 . Early 70's 402/454 from what I found.. Thanks for your help!
 

·
Premium Member
1968 Malibu sport coupe, 489 ci. 590 hp 600 tq, RV T-400 Freakshow 3200 stall, 3.73 12 bolt posi
Joined
·
9,105 Posts
I had sticker shock looking at the $ difference between the two but even more shock seeing all the HFT cam & lifter failures, complete tear downs and NON repairable damage to Cranks & Blocks, that was enough to change my mind to go with a Hyd roller set up, and most were from Big name brands
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I had sticker shock looking at the $ difference between the two but even more shock seeing all the HFT cam & lifter failures, complete tear downs and NON repairable damage to Cranks & Blocks, that was enough to change my mind to go with a Hyd roller set up, and most were from Big name brands
It used to be the other way around, the roller setups had more parts to break and with the heavier springs you had to deal with cam walk. I would definitely use rollers on a race motor, but would think I didnt need them for a street car. I havent built a motor in 30 years . I just spent 5 years Building a 32 Ford, but I bought a 502 from Chevy. Technology has changed a lot. Are there really that many problems with the FTC? That should be bullet proof when installed and broke in properly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Best to change your mind to a solid roller or hydraulic roller.
Seems everyone is against the FTC? It used to be a bullet proof system for a street car. Im starting to lean towards the Hyd roller. If I can get a setup where I dont have make any changes to the heads?
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
9,376 Posts
Seems everyone is against the FTC? It used to be a bullet proof system for a street car. Im starting to lean towards the Hyd roller. If I can get a setup where I dont have make any changes to the heads?
We don't make flat tappet lifters in this country...Some assemble them but all foreign parts. Detroit has not produced a flat tappet production engine since the early 90's. No QC on parts. Failure rate on flat tappets is about the same odds as playing Russian Roulette with 5 in the cylinder. I won't do a flat tappet for any customer now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,468 Posts
I still love my flat tappet cams but a local cam grinder does mine and there is plenty of taper on them.
I have read and personally seen flat tappet cams with little to NO taper on them.
Maybe they did not true up the stone enough when grinding or forgot to switch the thing from straight grind to a taper.
Maybe the machine got out of adjustment and the taper was too little.. things happen.




The lifters need to spin and with too little taper on the lobe you will not get a good spin.. same goes for the lifter it needs enough crown to allow it to spin.

I am picky when it comes to lifters. I use Driven BR oil for break-in.
The engines I use have flat tappets in them from factory and the cam and lifters were all in good shape when I pulled them so that makes me think the lifter bores are true enough to keep a flat tappet alive and well.
 
1 - 20 of 43 Posts
Top