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Discussion Starter #1
I am currently building a 327 large journal engine out of a 68 camaro.
vehicle weight about 3300 total, turbo 350 tranny 2500-3000 stall (havent bought yet)and 3.73 or 4.10 gears. Weekend driving and street strip with nasty idle desired. ON A STRICT BUDGET, LOOKING TO SAVE ANYWHERE I CAN...... Heres what i got:

327 .030 forged flat tops. hv oil pump, stock pan. stock rods, cast crank.
CR: 9.75:1
heads: ported 601's off 305 1.94/1.5 valves 57cc chamb 220/160 cfm
intake: ported edelbrock streetmaster (consider it a torker 2)
carb: 650 mech secondary holley with choke removed
exh: 1 5/8" long tube headers 2.5" pipes with flowmaster 40's :thumbsup:

I ALREADY HAVE ALL THE ABOVE AND NEED HELP WITH THE CAM CHOICE AND VALVETRAIN SETUP. I AM THINKING OF USING THESE PARTS:

cam- howards cams 112031-08 .480 lift int and exh. 288 advertised duration and 231 duration at 050 on a 108 centerline.
I am told with my intake to exhaust flow ratio of over 70% that a dual pattern is not needed and may hurt torque. :confused:
rockers- stamped long slot stock pushrods no guideplates
springs- already ordered matching howards springs 90 lb seat 250 open

can i get away with pressed in studs? given my flow numbers, comp ratio, is this a good cam choice? i am hoping for 400 horsepower on the cheap with max power around 6000, redline at 6500. im willing to deal with a high stall and low gears, just dont want to overcam it and kill all bottom end. not worried about vacuum or mileage. thanks for any help guys!! :D
 

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Discussion Starter #2
ps.... i was originally considering going with the comp 280h cam, but after hearing so many negative things about them and seeing the price differance i found a similar alternative from howards cams. heard nothing but good things about them and their tech guy was real helpful!!

but on the comp camsquest program this combo shows 425 hp with the 280h cam. im sure thats a lil optimistic but still seems like its headed the right direction.
 

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You've got the recipe right...single pattern, tight LSA, 230ish duration. It will be exactly what you want. It ought to flat MOVE, too.
 

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Hey, I'm a rat head with 1.7 ratios and splayed valves, but 6500 rpm, you may need valve springs enough to require screw-ins. Back in the day, man, it was de rigeur. Wouldn't consider a perf cam with decent springs w/o screw ins. fwiw. If ya got real anal about a rigid setup ( ooh that sounds wierd) that didn't move and could hold the angle and center, you could easily do them yourself. I'd consider it. It cant be $50 at a shop + $50 for the studs. Back in the 70's, I even pinned a few sets in.

Lastly, dont fear a solid cam. With good geometry ( those drill angles!) and springs, you'll get a bit more rpm ( and tq everywhere under the curve) at the same level of spring pressure. To be equivalent to your [email protected], schooch a solid cam's specs to [email protected] to match valve events. It WILL make more power.

Unfortunately the only suitable solid from Howards seems to be the [email protected] roller. The Isky 20 is a wee bit small, the Z25 a wee big at [email protected] .050. But it would be raucous!

EDIT: I forget it's a short stroke 327. The 227 Isky Z20 wouldnt be that bad. The 244 would make it real jumpy and lopey. Engle used to have some smaller duration solid sbc cams. But none of these are truly budget.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hey, I'm a rat head with 1.7 ratios and splayed valves, but 6500 rpm, you may need valve springs enough to require screw-ins. Back in the day, man, it was de rigeur. Wouldn't consider a perf cam with decent springs w/o screw ins. fwiw. If ya got real anal about a rigid setup ( ooh that sounds wierd) that didn't move and could hold the angle and center, you could easily do them yourself. I'd consider it. It cant be $50 at a shop + $50 for the studs.

Lastly, dont fear a solid cam. With good geometry ( those drill angles!) and springs, you'll get a bit more rpm ( and tq everywhere under the curve) at the same level of spring pressure. To be equivalent to your [email protected], schooch a solid cam's specs to [email protected] to match valve events. It WILL make more power.

Unfortunately the only suitable solid from Howards seems to be the [email protected] roller.

Yeah thats what im kinda afraid of is that i might need the screw in studs, the springs pn 98111 the guy reccomended to me dont seem all that stiff though, and the tech guy said they are plenty for this cam but i would hate to pull a stud when i could have prevented it all along. i may just get the tool and do it myself. The machine shop wants 60 a head plus parts!!

as far as the solid cam goes i totally agree, i was originally looking for a solid but as you mentioned the type of grind i am looking for i am only finding in a hydraulic.... and i am kinda thinking i have the tendancy to take things to far and next thing you know im gonna be revving this thing to 7 grand with a solid and start breaking things lol. i think the hydraulic will help me limit power and rpm to a reasonable level given my budget build and the strength or weakness of some of the parts.... next motor solid for sure! roller or flat tappet.
 

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If your short block and valvetrain is up to it, trust me, 7K is cake walk for a short stroker. Ok 6500-6700 is cake, 7000 is only a wee bit-o-strain.

Dude, the special tools I used , as a punk apprentice at a shop in the 70's, was a socket, some nuts and an impact gun to remove them, and of course a compound vise to drill/tap them at exactly the angle. If there's not much metal to remove, or none, you wont need a vise/jig to hold the head at all. Your special tool is a bottoming tap. But I'm 50, I did those when I was 17. ;)

A fella named onovakind here runs a 327 Duece, rally style car, but cooks 11's at the strip with a small ish 227-232 ? solid. Forget the specs.

The solid is a natural for a revver like a 327. But again, best to fit the "valve events" or simple duration as we know them to the engine. And stay on budget!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
If your short block and valvetrain is up to it, trust me, 7K is cake walk for a short stroker. Ok 6500-6700 is cake, 7000 is only a wee bit-o-strain.

Dude, the special tools I used , as a punk apprentice at a shop in the 70's, was a socket, some nuts and an impact gun to remove them, and of course a compound vise to drill/tap them at exactly the angle. If there's not much metal to remove, or none, you wont need a vise/jig to hold the head at all. Your special tool is a bottoming tap. But I'm 50, I did those when I was 17. ;)

A fella named onovakind here runs a 327 Duece, rally style car, but cooks 11's at the strip with a small ish 227-232 ? solid. Forget the specs.

The solid is a natural for a revver like a 327. But again, best to fit the "valve events" or simple duration as we know them to the engine. And stay on budget!

Hmm so i could use that method to pull the studs? i just dont want to snap one off trying to do that:cool:
theres a tool from summit for like 16 bucks that pulls them and doubles as a guide to tap the holes, and i can get the studs themselves for about 25 bucks.... think thats the route im gonna go just for some safety on that issue.

Will the rest of my valvetrain be up to 7 grand? i mean i was hoping to use stock pushrods and not install guideplates. and im using stamped long slot rockers. i know the springs are matched for the cam, but the cam says a powerband of 2000-6500 i believe. What about my stock cast crank and rods? i mean 400 hp seems easy for stock parts just not sure about that high of rpm

I was also looking at some solids from herbert cams, or even the comp magnum series.... comps not cheap though and couldnt find any other ones with modest lift numbers. i was hoping to stay well below .500" just to keep it easy and minimal mods to the heads and easier to live with springs. i hear so many stories about wiping out lobes on flat tappets with high spring pressures
 

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I would not consider running a solid lifter cam without screw in studs. You do not need anything but a slow running drill and a the right sized spot facer with a 3/8" pilot. The hard part is getting all the depths the same. With a fixture and a milling machine it is a very easy job. I think $60 a head is too much, but maybe I'm too old.

If you are on a budget, you may want to reconsider the lopey cam. Loping and miles per gallon are mutually exclusive. 3.73 gears should be as low as you need for transportation and performance. Keep in mind you can't fit large diameter tires under a Camaro, and smaller diameter tires will have the overall effect of a lower gear ratio.

I this were mine, I'd choose one of the smaller VooDoo hydraulic cams. Sure, 327's like to rev, but revving is a function of cam timing, not engine size. A 327 with the 30-30 Duntov would easily rev 7000+, but not with 90# valve springs or pressed in studs. If you go with a hydraulic, you can get by with pressed in studs. That would be my choice, and save the $120. Any flat lifter cam will have to have proper breakin.

Even if you run a hydraulic cam, get some good hardened valve spring keepers. Isky makes nice ones and they are cheap.

You will need a vacuum advance distributor if you expect any good mileage. There are numerous posts about this on this site.

The smallest VooDoo is 213/[email protected]". You may think this is not wild enough, but it gives good power from off idle to 5500 RPM. This is a 4500 rpm range of good power. Will provide good vacuum and reasonable mileage. At $3.00+ a gallon, you don't want something that will kill your wallet. Won't need a high stall convertor and will move when you nail it.

Let's get to piston rings. if you don't have rings, get some rings that are lighter tension than stock, which is usually around 20 pounds for stock oil rings, which is the biggest power sucker. Get some 16 pound rings, at least. Talk to some of the ring providers for their recommendations. Check here for some 5/64" Napier rings. They seem to be hard to find for a reasonable price. http://www.tricitycompetition.com/
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I would not consider running a solid lifter cam without screw in studs. You do not need anything but a slow running drill and a the right sized spot facer with a 3/8" pilot. The hard part is getting all the depths the same. With a fixture and a milling machine it is a very easy job. I think $60 a head is too much, but maybe I'm too old.

If you are on a budget, you may want to reconsider the lopey cam. Loping and miles per gallon are mutually exclusive. 3.73 gears should be as low as you need for transportation and performance. Keep in mind you can't fit large diameter tires under a Camaro, and smaller diameter tires will have the overall effect of a lower gear ratio.

I this were mine, I'd choose one of the smaller VooDoo hydraulic cams. Sure, 327's like to rev, but revving is a function of cam timing, not engine size. A 327 with the 30-30 Duntov would easily rev 7000+, but not with 90# valve springs or pressed in studs. If you go with a hydraulic, you can get by with pressed in studs. That would be my choice, and save the $120. Any flat lifter cam will have to have proper breakin.

Even if you run a hydraulic cam, get some good hardened valve spring keepers. Isky makes nice ones and they are cheap.

You will need a vacuum advance distributor if you expect any good mileage. There are numerous posts about this on this site.

The smallest VooDoo is 213/[email protected]". You may think this is not wild enough, but it gives good power from off idle to 5500 RPM. This is a 4500 rpm range of good power. Will provide good vacuum and reasonable mileage. At $3.00+ a gallon, you don't want something that will kill your wallet. Won't need a high stall convertor and will move when you nail it.

Let's get to piston rings. if you don't have rings, get some rings that are lighter tension than stock, which is usually around 20 pounds for stock oil rings, which is the biggest power sucker. Get some 16 pound rings, at least. Talk to some of the ring providers for their recommendations. Check here for some 5/64" Napier rings. They seem to be hard to find for a reasonable price. http://www.tricitycompetition.com/

sweet, i will definitely look into those rings, and my distributor does have vacuum advance. its the stock type with a pertronix ignitor and matching coil. i think i am definitely sticking to a hydraulic cam but as it is just a weekend hot rod i would kinda rather have the lope and high rpm power and deal with the sacrifice in mpg. would stock keepers not be up to the task? i believe those springs are only 250 lbs open and thats at .500 i think.
 

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For the record Bryan, one of my old fart buds has a 70 1/2 Camaro with a stock Lt1 ( 70's style) that sees near 8000 rpm. It has screw ins, but I dont think plates. Of course, that mill has forged crank and slugs stock.

As Ken was saying and as I recall onovakind using a high 220's duration solid, so 230 ona hydraulic is going to be lopey and it will suffer a bit of bottom end loss, but should allow a 327 to make snot well past 6000.

Maybe that small Isky Z20 isnt such a bad choice in a solid. But dont fret, with 250 open pressures, you should be good for near 6000. I might opt for a slightly heavier spring, closer to 285-300 open, but that is based on rat experience, not sbc. That way if you get a bit excited and push it thru 6500, where your stock parts should live fine, you wont float anything. If the springs come to you as dual, then I would defintely spend the additional hour or two and run the cam in on outers only, and then swap in the inners. Or run it in on some weak ass single spring first and then put 290psi on the nose.
 

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i have done a lot of motors for 305 sprints with these heads. You better unshroud them a lot to get those flow numbers trust me. The 434 heads flow a lot better with just little bigger chamber. They crack very very easy dont get them hot or they are done.
 

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Wouldnt bother with a cam that size those heads (no offense) flow horribly.
Teeny valves, too.

Get somethign with less duration and a real tight lobe center if you want a nasty idle.
Then step up get a good set of heads then cam accordingly.

They make some stock racing class cams that are smallish but will give you the sound youre looking for. Isky is a start on a place to look
 

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Get somethign with less duration and a real tight lobe center if you want a nasty idle.
Then step up get a good set of heads then cam accordingly.
Yup. The words "high rpm screamer" and "tight budget" do NOT go together. Install a ~220 @ 0.050 deg cam on a 106-108 LCA and be happy. 400hp with 305 heads and 327 ci is a real stretch.
 

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Looking at realistic goals, unless the heads have been worked on they came with 1.84 - 1.50 valves. Not to mention your flow numbers seema bit inflated unless work has been done to them to help flow.

With a stock type 327 with factory heads and a 230° cam it will be pretty tough to pull 400 honest hp from it.

I think your on the right track with your parts if a tight budget is priority. With that cam you are plenty good to use the stock press in studs.

Throw it together and tune away, combo should be good for high 12 second track runs with 3000 stall, 4.10 gear and sticky tires.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks for the input guys.... Getting a lot of good info. I might consider going with a cam more in the 225 at 050 range depending. My heads ARE fully worked though. The intake runners are fully ported, exhaust fully ported and polished, lots of unshrouding has been done (as far as I could go with the 4" bore) and I AM enlarging the intake valves to 1.94. Already have the valves, waiting on the springs to come in touching up the porting in the meantime and then taking them to the machine shop for the intake seats to be enlarged and full surfacing and valve job work.

That said, I've researched comparable porting jobs and seen claims as high as 230/170 cfm.... I think 220/150 is realistic, but I do plan on getting these flowed once all work is done. IF I get close to my Target numbers would my original cam choice be good?
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Oh and for reference my intakes ccd at 165 before, 175 after porting, exhaust 55 before 60 after and combustion chambers 53 before and 57 after

Also did a lot of work around the valve guides removing as much as possible and shaping it for better flow
 

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If you have done a bunch of port work to the heads and open the valves up to 1.94 you should have a good combination with a cam in the [email protected] or slightly bigger. Those heads with 1.94 and correct porting should get you into the 230cfm range at .500 lift without much problem. 160-170cfm is pretty normal out the exhaust with decent work.

Don't get caught up in the single pattern cams, also look at cams with more exhaust duration, especially if your running street exhaust. I am running the XE274 in my 327 and the large exhaust lobe has not hurt anything.

Make sure you get the compresion where you need it based on the cam.

Your going to want a decent amount of cam to work with the single plane intake.

Run as much timing as possible, base and advance. That will keep the little motor crisp in the low rpm.
 

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If you have done a bunch of port work to the heads and open the valves up to 1.94 you should have a good combination with a cam in the [email protected] or slightly bigger. Those heads with 1.94 and correct porting should get you into the 230cfm range at .500 lift without much problem. 160-170cfm is pretty normal out the exhaust with decent work.

Don't get caught up in the single pattern cams, also look at cams with more exhaust duration, especially if your running street exhaust. I am running the XE274 in my 327 and the large exhaust lobe has not hurt anything.

Make sure you get the compresion where you need it based on the cam.

Your going to want a decent amount of cam to work with the single plane intake.

Run as much timing as possible, base and advance. That will keep the little motor crisp in the low rpm.
:thumbsup:

How do you like the xe 274? They sound good on YouTube but I have read they are real hard on the valvetrain and prone to going flat?? Any problems? Also what heads are you running on yours? Good to hear from someone running a 327 with a good sized cam!
 

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The cam is running good, I get a decent deal on Comp stuff so I went with them. I have about 7-8k miles on the cam without issue. They make noise, but with correct zinc oil and proper break in they last a long time.

I don't know it's a bunch of power your going to gain from the Comp to the generic grinds if your looking to save money on the build. Between Voodoo and XE cams they are hard to beat for power without custom grinds.

I am running stock double humps with a generic valve job, the motor needs to be gone through, the bottom end is worn out. But runs really good for a basic 250hp 1966 327.

230° hyd. flat tappet isn't that big, it's boarderline with a tight converter, but i have a 4 speed and it does good, I have run 3.08 as a cruise gear and it still runs really strong down low rpm.
 
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