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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok heres the skinny, my sons oil pump exploded and took out the bearing cap. we just had the motor machined and going to pick it up tonight,this is what we have but want to know what to put in it.
stock heads (had them surfaced and vacummed checked they are ok), performer plus intake, deamon carb, msd 6a w/ msd dist. headers,
high flow water pump, new starter and new fuel pump,forged crank,m22 4 speed,3.31 gears. no air no power steering.
she was a stock 71 454 ls5 (365hp)
the speed shops around here are great but want your guys opinions not a salesmans.

what would be a good (cost effective) cam ,lifters, rockers, pistons, ect. oh yes it is a everyday driver (school and back) with some crusing fun,(stop lite to stop lite) no strip should not run over 5500 rpm for the power band . oh yea and want something that will last a long time with minimal maintenance.

Im new at this and am looking forward to buiding this with my son as neither one of us has ever done any thing like this.
as I read in here somewhere
Noha built the ark and professionals built the titanic. so we are going to try it.
sorry for the rambling.
 

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Go to a good book store a get a book on how to build motors. There's tons of great information in them.

Personally, I'd start rebuilding the heads first and get the exact volume of the heads. This will help determine what piston volume to get and your overall compression ratio.
 

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Your final drive out of the tranny will play a role just as your rear gears and tire size play a role as to what RPM range you want to be in most of your driving time. I.E. 2500 or less or over that. Comp Cams and Crane are excellent sources for input into your combo. You should find out the volume on the heads for a reference point for what comp ratio you are going to end up with.

E-mail me later and I can give you my cam specs it falls right in line with edelbrocks and one of Summit's cam grinds. It did well on the desk top dyno too. But it fairly mild good driveability.

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1966 Chevelle Malibu Sandalwood, Gold color
454, .30 over, dual quads
700 R4 transmission
12" disks up front and hope to have disks in the rear soon.
 

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I used the book "How to Hot Rod Big Block Chevys" an HP book, some 20 years ago,when I built my first motor....

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Bob West
Monett,Mo.
1972 Malibu .030 over 454
350 turbo-3.73's
[email protected] 1000ft.track
[email protected] mph 1/8th mile

[This message has been edited by Rapid Robert (edited 08-19-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
thanks for the input guys,
they are stock heads how do I get the volume?
and being stock what can I do to them or have done to them.
and I have been reading some books this seem pretty easy if we take our time.
when we get ready to order the parts heres my question for you guys is it worth the cost for the following items remeber its an everyday driver
forged vs cast pistons
roller lifters, roller rockers,style of cam (not size)
I have heard some of the high end stuff for racing is high maintenance and not good for everyday, this my concern or is it just marketing?
that they dont want you to build a motor that will last a long time?
I dont have umlimited fund but do want to do it right and it seems that you can upgrade for a few dollars more but is it worth it?
I know its lot to ask but then this is the best place on the net.
thanks again.
 

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Id go with a hydralic cam. You can get good power with out woring about adjusting lash(unless you guys dont mind doing that then there isnt much reason not to go with a solid but running lash might get old quick but no reliability issues) A hydralic roller is expensive and you wont see much performance but if you only want to spin it to 5500 then you miss their main draw back of being heavy and thus revlimited. A solid roller is just to expensive for what you wana do and way overkill. A hydralic will do ya nice. There isnt any reason to put forged slugs in your motor, and they need more piston to wall clearance cuz they expand more(this is what the machine shop guy told me).

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Philip Blackburn
Primer black 69 velle (far from done)
my motors done...
454-60 over
iron merlin rec port heads
Compcams promagnum rockers roller cam
.646int.653exst 280/286 w/110separation
10.25 compression
RPM airgap eagal rods
ARP bolts and studs
will run an auto
ACES # 04287
 

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I dunno, I think I would have taken the exploded 350 as an opportunity to put a big block back in there


O.k., back to the path you have taken - please define "budget", how much do you really want to spend.

So its gonna be a cruiser and school transportation, let me first suggest that if you can, you should return that Demon carb and get a regular old Carter 600 (or Edelbrock equivelent if you like). The Carter will give you the "bolt it on and go and never think about it again" that I think you are after. Just in case you think the Carter will not give you the performance you want let me tell you that my signature car listed below runs a Carter 600, and that same 406 gives me 10 mpg city/ 14 mpg hwy with no overdrive tranny.

Best of luck, Team Chevelle will help get your father/son project back on the road - and a smile on your face!

------------------
"Bomber" '67 El Camino, Beater comes back to life.
Was 350/TH350 14.90 @ 93mph, 360,000+ miles on car
Now 406 roller, 340rwhp, more hp coming, 3.08 gears
Street radials, left in drive, 13.20 [email protected] mph
*New* added Plum Mist '67 to collection
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
we are rebuilding the 454, my budget is around 2,200 that was what the machine shop told me they could rebuild it for. we figured we could put that in the motor in parts and do the labor to have a better motor. we have most of the bolt on stuff, now its the guts. would a hydraulic roller cam last longer? and stay away from the forged pistons? as far as th deamon carb my son loves it, what about roller rockers and roller lifters? are they worth the money?
seem summit has a nice engine kit for around 450 - 500
all info is greatly appreciated
thanks
 

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Hmm...not sure how I thought you had a 350 you were working on - glad to hear it'll be big block fun once it is all together!

I can see that you have some real fundemental questions - may I suggest that you take some time to search through the archives on this forum as well as taking the time to read any one of the well written books on building a big block Chevy. Unless you need to rush this job along, a little time spent in research will go a long ways to acheiving your goals...on the first try


To really answer your questions completely and correctly would take more space than a reply could do justice - that said, here goes:
What everyone is trying to get you to do is to stick with a flat tappet hydraulic camshaft. For your stated purposes, a roller camshaft and lifters would be a supreme waste of money. Properly set up, either a hydraulic flat tappet cam or a roller camshaft will give you many years of service - you will likely be ready for another round of horsepower building before either camshaft style is worn out.
Yes, roller rockers are good, but not really needed on a mild big block that will never likely see much beyond 5,000 to 5,500 rpm.
Nothing *wrong* with forged pistons, once again not needed on a mild big block (unless you have nitrous plans that you are not sharing with us) - the hyperutectic variety would be my choice for your stated purposes.
Since I've already advised against a roller hydraulic camshaft, the roller lifters would not be needed.

Best of luck, and please be aware that it is not just the specific combination of parts that will give you certain results - it is almost more important how well it is all assembled. Besides the obvious bearing clearances and such, what I want to see is really good ring seal and a piston quench of ~.040 (more piston quench distance tends toward detonation issues, much less quench distance is not good either). After assembly and run in miles do a cylinder leak down test. If you end up with ~ 6% or less leak down on all cylinders that is good - even better are some of these new factory performance engines that I understand are in the 2% leakdown range!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have read a couple of books about big blocks, but they all seem around 5-10 years old in technology thats why Im asking these questions for more recent inovations and what hype to stay away from. I have chosen the cam I want from comp cam. we will go with roller rockers just for the looks and what little and not to much more money. it seems that I will start getting the parts soon enough. go with the forged pistons only because never know what the future holds and nitrouse does seem to enter the dinner conversations alot but that would be his doing down the road.

thanks all for your input
 

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Loveless, you've made all the right choices so far, but if I might interject...

Roller rockers...I used them sicne I have a 20 yr old tech free spionning motor and thoiught they might help. Sure they might, but after seeing a buddy break one doing street driving, I am upset at myslef for not spending the long dollar and getting steel ones. Crowers specifically.

So is it worth the $350 or so for you. No. Emphatically > No.

Another reason is that with your 3.31 and M22 you have a terribly high 1st gear ratio. Therefore, I hope your cam choice is a 2000-5000 piece becuase this is what you'll need. A torquey, not high endy cam. Very mild. I should think 210-215 duration is all that I would consider with that gearing. You can get a little crazy with LSA at that duration, and this should help. Shoot for 108-110. Here I must assume compression is in the 9.25-10.0 range.

Forged slugs only if nitrous is in the cards, otherwise the tighter fitting cast pieces will give you better oil control adn should be jsut as reliable under normal operating conditions.

EDIT: Of course, with your 3.31 you could use a Richonmd 5 speed which would give you the same 1/2 gearing as your M22 with 4.88 cogs!

Hehehe, can you say solid roller!


Ok just funnin'!

[This message has been edited by Gene Chas (edited 08-21-2001).]
 

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The 1st reply was good. Start with your heads. What casting #'s do you have? I'm going to assume they are the large ovals-open chamber with a stock 119cc chamber volume. The heads are a very good place to spend your money on. When built well with good parts, they'll last and will support any future build-ups down the road. I'd start with installing hardened seats for un-leaded gas. Installing Ferrera 2.19/1.88 valves. Pocket porting, after the throat-cuts are made for the larger valves. Relieve the areas around the outer edges of the valves in the chambers. This will aid flow into the cylinders. A good three angle valve job. Shave .020" off the heads. New or knurled guides and and new studs. Use a new set of the extended slot rocker arms. No roller crap needed. 3/8" hardened pushrods & guides. You need to measure the chamber volumes at this point. This will determine your piston choice. Deck height of the block also comes into play here, but you can choose different head gaskets to tailor the final CR to your needs. 9.5:1 is a good # to shoot for here. Here's a good link for piston choices and explanations:
http://www.kb-silvolite.com/kb.html
The Silvo-Lites are great for street/strip use and cost effective.
Flat tappet hyd cam is the way to go.
double roller titming chain
brass freeze plugs
don't use a high pressure oil pump. high volume or stock is what you want.
Hope this helps
 

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Big blocks have not changed much. Buy "How to Hot Rod Big Block Chevys". I think its by Dave Vizard. Also buy "How to Rebuild Big Block Chevys" by Tom Wilson. Those books will tell you all you need to know. Commit Wilsons book to memory. Also I like the book "Engine Blueprinting"
 

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First of all I had an original ls5 car 5 years ago and the factory (original) cam and set up was sure a lot of fun. I had the M22 with 3.31 gears. Depending on how much street time you plan for this rebuild will aid you in using your budget efficiently. If you plan on a lot of street use, hardened exh. seats! I would try to get the most compression with the heads you have. My data tells me you should have 113cc heads if it's the original 454/365hp heads that came on the engine,#3993820's. Larger valves are nice if you're going to have the seats replaced anyway. Make sure the machinist checks the guide to spring retainer dimension to insure you have enough room for a large cam and I also suggest the use of teflon seals for the valves. The seals require a special tool to cut the castings to fit. I would plan on $700 for the heads and springs. I agree the cast pistons would be fine for your application with a minimum of 9.5 compression with your head volume. Your stock cam should have had a lift of .461 on the intake and .480 on the exhaust. I would recommend a cam, such as comp. cams XE 268H (1600 to 5800rpms) .515I, .520E or another step up to XE 274H (1800 to 6000rpms) .552I, .555E.
Plan on $170.00 for the cam & lifters. Get a good HD timing chain set $30 to $100. I have also always had good luck with cast rings. Plan on around $400. for pistons and rings, $60 to $100 for pearings and $50 for gaskets.
Without any other machine costs you have $1500. JMO

EEd C.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
as always this is the best site on the net,
thanks for all the info when I put these questions w answers to the machinist and the boys at the parts shop it was fun
thanks as always.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
ok here is another dillema,
my other sons 59 chvey has problems (need new motor)
was thinking about getting a short block 454
put it the 71 chevelle till we build its motor then swaping out to the 59 chevy.
but I need a core to exchange with.
we were told that the chevelle is a #matching we have the build sheet and that checks out as to whats on the car. but how and where do tell if the motor is the original?
should this be posted as a separate question?

thanks again
Mark
 
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