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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'd like to put a better Oil Pan/Pump in the Chevelle and Front/Mid Plate the Engine. Anyone build a re-moveable or fixed engine cross-member to accommodate a drag race oil pan? I am looking at the Moroso Aluminum 20485 and maybe their billet pump? It would be nice to pull the pan without pulling the engine.
 

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I ran the 21049 pan and the 22187 pump. It worked great. My car had the crossmember modified, rack and pinion installed and mid and motor plates. That pan held 70+ psi oil pressure to 7500. The 20403 pan lost oil control over 6500 and you’d see pressure drop.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I ran the 21049 pan and the 22187 pump. It worked great. My car had the crossmember modified, rack and pinion installed and mid and motor plates. That pan held 70+ psi oil pressure to 7500. The 20403 pan lost oil control over 6500 and you’d see pressure drop.
You happen to have pictures of it Ray?
 

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Jarad,

Since the 2 primary tracks I raced at are now closed permanently, my car is apart for paint and other updates. One of which is also a modified crossmember and motorplates also.

I was considering cutting the factory crossmember and then welding a cover plate with thread inserts that would allow the modified crossmember to be removed for oil pan removal access in the car.

For BBC pans, Reher-Morrison has a good package that is based on the 21049, which is the BBC pan to have as Ray mentioned.

https://rehermorrison.com/assets/OilPanPump22187_21049-copy.pdf
 

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Jarad do not know if you remeber but Oliver69 from Italy used Front and Rear Plates on his Mark Jones Tunnel Ram Engine
that he put into his 69 El Camino Race Car Build
https://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-performance/976258-el-camino-strip-car-build.html

Page 14 Post # 208 Pic of the Front of the Engine with Plates
Post # 215 Info on what Rack & Pinion Steering he used

Page 15 Post # 220 Pic of Rear of his Engine with Plate

Maybe you could PM him about some info on yours
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Jarad,

Since the 2 primary tracks I raced at are now closed permanently, my car is apart for paint and other updates. One of which is also a modified crossmember and motorplates also.

I was considering cutting the factory crossmember and then welding a cover plate with thread inserts that would allow the modified crossmember to be removed for oil pan removal access in the car.

For BBC pans, Reher-Morrison has a good package that is based on the 21049, which is the BBC pan to have as Ray mentioned.

https://rehermorrison.com/assets/OilPanPump22187_21049-copy.pdf
I will look at it. Thank you.
Jarad do not know if you remeber but Oliver69 from Italy used Front and Rear Plates on his Mark Jones Tunnel Ram Engine
that he put into his 69 El Camino Race Car Build
https://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-performance/976258-el-camino-strip-car-build.html

Page 14 Post # 208 Pic of the Front of the Engine with Plates
Post # 215 Info on what Rack & Pinion Steering he used

Page 15 Post # 220 Pic of Rear of his Engine with Plate

Maybe you could PM him about some info on yours
I do now. It's a very nice build. Will go back through it...
 

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Out of curiosity, are you having oil pressure issues now? What pan you running? I like that new pan you're looking at. Thinking out loud; It has an even wider lower section than the 21049, which in my opinion, helps with the BBC narrow crankcase to reduce windage. I also think crankshaft design has some to do with it; OD cut, knife edge, etc.

Some of the stuff I did over the winter included motor plates, rack & pinion and modded the crossmember but am going to run my Milodon 31186 for now. It's Milodon's version of Moroso's 21049. The oil pressure is not "rock solid" but good enough I guess. Wish Moroso had a 1pc seal vs of that 20485.

I don't have any experience with a removable crossmember, but FWIW, know 1 guy that cut his apart to do what you're thinking. It sprung open so bad, he had to pull it back together with a comealong. There was a lot of stress in that area of the frame. Not sure how a bolt-able one would work.
 

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Out of curiosity, are you having oil pressure issues now? What pan you running? I like that new pan you're looking at. Thinking out loud; It has an even wider lower section than the 21049, which in my opinion, helps with the BBC narrow crankcase to reduce windage. I also think crankshaft design has some to do with it; OD cut, knife edge, etc.

Some of the stuff I did over the winter included motor plates, rack & pinion and modded the crossmember but am going to run my Milodon 31186 for now. It's Milodon's version of Moroso's 21049. The oil pressure is not "rock solid" but good enough I guess. Wish Moroso had a 1pc seal vs of that 20485.

I don't have any experience with a removable crossmember, but FWIW, know 1 guy that cut his apart to do what you're thinking. It sprung open so bad, he had to pull it back together with a comealong. There was a lot of stress in that area of the frame. Not sure how a bolt-able one would work.
You have to weld in a permanent crossmember forward in the car to take the stress off the bolt in type. We did it in my dads nova years ago. Even when we did my unremovable one a brace was welded in to hold the car permanent while the factory one was cut.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Out of curiosity, are you having oil pressure issues now? What pan you running? I like that new pan you're looking at. Thinking out loud; It has an even wider lower section than the 21049, which in my opinion, helps with the BBC narrow crankcase to reduce windage. I also think crankshaft design has some to do with it; OD cut, knife edge, etc.

Some of the stuff I did over the winter included motor plates, rack & pinion and modded the crossmember but am going to run my Milodon 31186 for now. It's Milodon's version of Moroso's 21049. The oil pressure is not "rock solid" but good enough I guess. Wish Moroso had a 1pc seal vs of that 20485.

I don't have any experience with a removable crossmember, but FWIW, know 1 guy that cut his apart to do what you're thinking. It sprung open so bad, he had to pull it back together with a comealong. There was a lot of stress in that area of the frame. Not sure how a bolt-able one would work.
Dale, here is a log of the Oil Pressure vs RPM. It's not rock solid. My pan is the Moroso 20401 I think... I have a rack and pinion and doing plates this winter.




You have to weld in a permanent crossmember forward in the car to take the stress off the bolt in type. We did it in my dads nova years ago. Even when we did my irremovable one a brace was welded in to hold the car permanent while the factory one was cut.

I am wondering if I could weld in the removable support for the rack and tie into it as support for the Engine Cross Member, make everything non-removable, that might solve the pan clearance and give me access to it in the car.
 

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You have to weld in a permanent crossmember forward in the car to take the stress off the bolt in type. We did it in my dads nova years ago. Even when we did my unremovable one a brace was welded in to hold the car permanent while the factory one was cut.

Thanks Ray. I had notched just the back of mine (sump side) and didn't worry about it moving but assumed what you're saying was protocol if the entire thing was cut-out.
 

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Dale, here is a log of the Oil Pressure vs RPM. It's not rock solid. My pan is the Moroso 20401 I think... I have a rack and pinion and doing plates this winter.

I am wondering if I could weld in the removable support for the rack and tie into it as support for the Engine Cross Member, make everything non-removable, that might solve the pan clearance and give me access to it in the car.

I'm not used to looking at graphs. Typically I'm watching a no-Pro (Chinese vs of a Go-Pro:)). It looks surprisingly good considering that oil pan. I initially had something similar, but the 1pc seal version, on my 540 and it was not happy past ~6500 rpm's. I still think crank design influences this also.


Again, thinking out loud; I remember a picture I came across (like what you're describing) of a cut-out engine crossmember. The plates (which looked to be 3/8" thk) that cap off the cut area's, extended forward and tied into the brace. There was no direct bar welded between the plates. Don't know how it worked for them but it looked stout. If you have the front bars of a cage, I'd think you could also run extra ties down to box the front clip. Like this picture I grabbed off David Thompson's Facebook page-
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Dale, here is a log of the Oil Pressure vs RPM. It's not rock solid. My pan is the Moroso 20401 I think... I have a rack and pinion and doing plates this winter.

I am wondering if I could weld in the removable support for the rack and tie into it as support for the Engine Cross Member, make everything non-removable, that might solve the pan clearance and give me access to it in the car.

I'm not used to looking at graphs. Typically I'm watching a no-Pro (Chinese vs of a Go-Pro<img src="http://www.chevelles.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />). It looks surprisingly good considering that oil pan. I initially had something similar, but the 1pc seal version, on my 540 and it was not happy past ~6500 rpm's. I still think crank design influences this also.


Again, thinking out loud; I remember a picture I came across (like what you're describing) of a cut-out engine crossmember. The plates (which looked to be 3/8" thk) that cap off the cut area's, extended forward and tied into the brace. There was no direct bar welded between the plates. Don't know how it worked for them but it looked stout. If you have the front bars of a cage, I'd think you could also run extra ties down to box the front clip. Like this picture I grabbed off David Thompson's Facebook page-
That is what I was thinking, I'd just wonder if I could remove the factory cross after the tubes where added?

The Oil Drops, not drastic but it's not climbing either. Also drops more on deceleration. I didn't include that.

This is in preparation for another direction with the car.
 

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That is what I was thinking, I'd just wonder if I could remove the factory cross after the tubes where added? Not sure, but you always could add back a bolt-able one for insurance.

The Oil Drops, not drastic but it's not climbing either. Also drops more on deceleration. I didn't include that. Oil pressures are still a mystery to me but I think most engine oil pressures are not as stable as people think. How have your bearings been lasting? If they look good, I wouldn't worry about it.

This is in preparation for another direction with the car. Do tell...
.
 

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The 21049 will squeeze in with the stock cross member, a diaper R&R will be a pain though. I did cut mine out, and also profiled the steering bar. Remove the zerk fittings too, as the ends will bump the pan on full lock.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You might consider contacting Mark Jones about his oiling system first. He seems to have mastered oil control and oil pans.
I've considered that too. He's got that down.
That is what I was thinking, I'd just wonder if I could remove the factory cross after the tubes where added? Not sure, but you always could add back a bolt-able one for insurance.

The Oil Drops, not drastic but it's not climbing either. Also drops more on deceleration. I didn't include that. Oil pressures are still a mystery to me but I think most engine oil pressures are not as stable as people think. How have your bearings been lasting? If they look good, I wouldn't worry about it.

This is in preparation for another direction with the car. Do tell...
.
I haven't checked the bearings since the last build. It's gotten frequent oil changes, cut open the filter every time with no bearing material.

Going EFI with a couple Turbo's. Very mild by today's standards. I plan on doing most the work and tuning... It'll be a couple year project.
The 21049 will squeeze in with the stock cross member, a diaper R&R will be a pain though. I did cut mine out, and also profiled the steering bar. Remove the zerk fittings too, as the ends will bump the pan on full lock.
Thank you Mike.
 

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Mine would drop when I got in the brakes too. Would hit the brakes till it dropped to 30 then got off the brakes. The 21049 eliminated all problems.
 

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Thanks Ray. I had notched just the back of mine (sump side) and didn't worry about it moving but assumed what you're saying was protocol if the entire thing was cut-out.
Yes only if the whole thing was cut out.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I think I'll do something similar to the picture Dale posted. It will happen this winter I hope. Lots of work to do. Thanks for all the replies.
 
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