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Discussion Starter #1
Well, after much reasearch and reading on this board for a year now, i have started my budget 454 build. I just dropped off my block to my machinest to get cleaned and initially bored to see what piston size we need to get. I would really like to extend a big thanks to Kettbo (George), on posting his build ups, they have been a huge inspiration in this build. I see some of the ideas i had in mind for mine were used in his current build.

This is not by any means the first engine i have built, but being a Mopar guy all these years, this is the first BB chevy i have built. If some of you wish to help and guide me through a trouble spot or see something you don't like, feel free to comment and i will always take opinions into consideration.

Anyways, i know some will look at my build and scratch their heads a little. This build is meant for the street, its going in a 3600# 2wd pickup with a 4-speed overdrive stick trans. Gears will be either 3.21 or 3.55 (haven't decided yet and have both sets here). I am also building for the use of 87/89 octane---hopefully.

The lineup of parts as of right now are as follows. Some i have, some i don't, but will be getting. Total budget build will hopefully come in under $1500---but we know how that goes.

* '85 454 2bolt std size block
* '73 std size cast crank
* Stock rods most likely, machinest thinks he has a set all done already for $100 if he can find them.
* Solid roller lifters
* GM Hyd roller cam 12551622
300/300
225/225 @.050"
.483"/.483"
109 ICL
115 LSA
* Speed pro H426cp pistons and moly rings (10.5cc dome)
* peanut port heads, they cc'd at 120cc. Undiced what i will do with them.
* stock oil pan
* HV oil pump (only because i already have it)
* 1 3/4 full length headers
* edelbrock dual plane dual quad intake
* 2 edelbrock thunder series 500 cfm carbs (yes this is for mostly looks, and will take some time to use, but i am dead set on using it)

The pistons set in at zero deck height will give me 8.9 to 1. Perfect for the low octane swill i want to run. And yes, i will sacrifice some power dropping my compression to use the cheap gas, but using the cheap gas and still making good torque are more important to me than dragstrip numbers. From what i see the build should have much usable torque in a broad range which is perfect for street use. It "should" make enough power to put me into the 12's---how far, who knows. But its not going to be a race car, just the occasional once or twice or so to the track.

I will post any pics i have and keep updates on the build so you can all see the progress. I would think my block will be at the machine shop for 2-3 weeks for work and waiting on whatever size pistons need to be ordered. so it may be a slow initial start on this build.
 

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You have to like a budget big block build its just American! Right George?
 

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Here my opinion. First you don't require a HR cam where a HFT will suffice because the motor will not be revving much past 5800 rpm.

Say the cylinders cleanup with @ .030” giving you a 4.280” Bore. You say you are using a 10.5 cc Domed Piston, with block decked say .020” placing the pistons .005” in the Bore. With a .035/.039 Composite Head Gasket gives a appropriate quench around .040”. I would seriously think about trading them 120cc Open Chambered Peanut Heads for large oval port 402 820 113cc or 781 118cc castings. You will have a static compression of approx 9.4:1 with the 820’s and approx 9:1 with the 781’s. NOTE: Always CC BBC Head Chambers as they have been known not to be the CC's as advertised.

I would recommend something like Comp Cams Extreme Marine HFT Cam with either their 924 or 925(better on top end) Springs and say the XM270H-12 Profile [1600 to 5800 11-236-4 XM270H 270 286 226 236 .544 .547 112°] installed at 108 Degrease gives you a Dynamic Compression Ration of approx 7.4:1 to 7.7:1 depending which head you choose. This is very acceptable for 87 Octane yet get that mill up to close to 6000rpm with humongous torque all the way through the RPM range. Maybe their Extreme 4X4 Profile like the X4270H-11 [1600 to 5800 11-239-3 X4 270H 270 278 226 234 .544 .564 111°]

Just as cheap to buy after market Rods like the Eagle SIR Forged Cap Screw Rods then rebuilding the original Rods. Also recommend 7’16” Stock Length Push Rods, 2” ARP Rocker Studs and run a set of either Pro MAG or Harland Sharp Roller Rockers, topped of with a Holley 750Dp/ the old Edelbrock RPM. It would not hurt to cross Drill that cast crank either.

Here's Patrick Kelly's DCR Calculator for you to play with: http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html

Whatever you descide - Have FUN ;o)

SHOOT! After all that I just realized you have a GEN V Block - OH Well - Lots of the same principles apply - Sorry.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Mark, thanks for taking a look, i hope you can keep up and let me know you opinion.

Z15cam, I agree, normally a HFT cam is more than adequate in a build like this, but i refuse to run a FT cam anymore. In fact i will not assemble an engine for anyone else anymore that doesn't have a roller cam in it. I just dont trust the oils anymore. I know Scott (SWEATON) has done some awesome research on the oil debacle, but i just can not be convinced myself to give it a go and having it fail--then picking up the pieces and doing it all over again. So, the roller it is, and that part is staying. The solid rollers on that cam because they are cheap and i don't have any squishy lifter deflection to worry about. A bunch of us local Mopar guys ran cams this way alot and it flat out works--i hope it does on a Chevy too.

As far as the peanut ports go, well, lets just say i am intrigued by them. No one ever gives them any respect. Can they match a good oval, not really, but think about the application. A true street motor that will see an average RPM range of idle to 3500. At least my thinking is small port, high velocity. My 500 cfm carbs also carry that theory with the small throttle bores. If nothing else, it should be real snappy on the lower end. Which is fine for me. I figure this thing will be all done by 5000-5200 rpm, and that is probably pushing it through those heads. I may just do a clean up of the bowl and call it good, no major grinding. I am not sure if i feel like messing with larger valves right now, i have a set and have my own seat and valve grinder so putting them in is a non issue---its just time. I did cc the ones i have and they come in at 120 cc, pretty consistently too. I mat shave them, we'll see. My true calculated comp with the pistons at zero deck and a .039 felpro gasket will put me right at 8.9 to 1. And it will have a nice tight quench.

My calculated figures come up as follows, comp is 8.9 to 1, my dynamic at my altitude (400 ft) is 7.9 to 1 and i should have around 155 cranking psi. My timing will be done via a MSD pro billit 85551 distributor and a stock Chrysler ignition box (did i mention this is being stuffed in my '85 Ram pickup?)

As far as the rods go, i think if he finds them i'll take the $100 stock rods. My opinion, its good 'ole american material, not some off-shore junk. A limit of 5500 max rpm is not going to kill a set of 3/8" bolt rods. However, if i have too, (as in if he cant find the rods), i will most likely against my better judgement buy a set of Scat rods---only because at that point, as you said, it costs almost as much to redo them than buy new. But i will be checking them very closely if i go that way. But that whole deal remains a question right now.

Good pushrods will be a given, not sure where i am going with the rockers yet either. Alot of the valvetrain is a big question mark right now and i think it will just depend on the budget.

Block is still a Mark IV, not a GEN V block

Also, i said a budget of $1500. We will just consider this the long block assembly---this will keep it on a level playing field for others out there. I don't think i will include the motor cores i purchased or things like my intake setup (which most people would't run anyhow) as that alone was 2/3 the budget, LOL. But i will keep tabs on what i spend and we'll see where i end up.
 

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Yeah, I've only got over 20,000 miles on a new ft cam, but... either way, get some darn lift in the equation and drop the 115LSA. Thats for EFI, not power. Sub .500" is pretty wimpy.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I agree, that the cam is a little small and some specs are off, but for $40, i am going to give it a stab. It should make a boat load of flat torque which is desirable in a street vehicle, and not be too peaky, so it does have some advantage there---keep in mind the small heads too. A cam can be rather easily changed out in the future too. However, i am still keeping my eyes peeled for something else, so if i find a good deal, i will upgrade, but i know the budget is already going to be tight. Like i said, the whole valve train is kinda up in the air at this point, but i have my ideas.
 

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I think this is the first time I've seen "solid roller" and "peanut ports" in the same build. Isn't that kinda like putting big slicks on a Geo? If you're running solid roller lifters 'cause they're "cheap", you ain't running the right ones, IMHO.
And there are still TONS of folks running flat tappet cams, just make sure you run the right oil or additive.
I'm sure the peanut port heads with your compression will make massive torque, just don't understand running a solid roller in a work truck (I assume it's for work with that OD stick).
 

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Chad,

Consider the $40 cam....think about sending it to Delta Camshaft in Tacoma.
Call Scott today,
1938 Tacoma Avenue South
Tacoma, WA 98402-1610
(253) 572-2474

tell him whatcha got, whatcha wanna do, your lifters, etc. Tell him ElCamino George sent ya. Regrinds are VERY affordable. Most fail to use this option. Delta is the largest custom grinder in the country. Be sure to ask what, if any, limitations you'll have with your current cam as a core.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hi gary, its not work truck, its a toy, but its going to live in a street rpm range. I honestly don't care what it runs at the strip. I do want tons of torque, so i think i am headed in the right direction. Lets put these peanut ports to the test. I have a couple of sets, an they are always around fo very little. So lets think a littlw outside the box some on something that doesn't need to be a dragstrip winner. I think this is where i am tripping some people up. Its not a high comp, big cam brutal fast street vehicle. I am taking in all everyone says and will change anything as i see fit. I know plenty are running FT and as i stated before, i will not. I am done playing that game and running certian oils and additives. Its just not going to happen for me.

George, thanks for the input, i will call, but i thought you said about $240 plus shipping. Which i admit is very reasonable, however it may have to wait. I would be curious what they have to say though, so i will make contact and let you all know. If i have to put it together and run what i got for now, so be it. We'll see and thank you for the info.
 

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I went with a billet core for I intended to go into harm's way.
I think they will grind your cam for around $80 bubba. I had a GenVI 454, we had Delta grind a little more nuts into the cam...but the before and after numbers elude me.
 

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I second George's idea about Delta Cams. I've had 'em regrind a few for me and they were always within tolerance when checked on a Cam Dr. I used some new take-outs and had 'em grind three out of 'em - one 214/220 for my 489 work truck and a pair for stout street/strip engines. One of those sub-.500 lift cams was turned into a duplicate of the cam GM uses in their 572 street engines (256/264, .632/.632), so there's plenty of meat there to work with, plus they're steel cores with good distributor gears on 'em.
 

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I went with a billet core for I intended to go into harm's way.
I think they will grind your cam for around $80 bubba. I had a GenVI 454, we had Delta grind a little more nuts into the cam...but the before and after numbers elude me.
George,do you remember what cam you sent them to regrind?
 

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...I think this is the first time I've seen "solid roller" and "peanut ports" in the same build. Isn't that kinda like putting big slicks on a Geo? ....
....I do want tons of torque, so i think i am headed in the right direction. Lets put these peanut ports to the test. ...So lets think a littlw outside the box some on something that doesn't need to be a dragstrip winner. ....

I like it!
 

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George,do you remember what cam you sent them to regrind?
Dan,
I had bought a whole GenVI 454 from a kid. It needed work like a new crank. Busted Knuckles had a few lying around so he sent one out for a very fair price.
All I know it was a stock cam for a 96 454. Delta gave it a mild RV type tune to the profiles....can't remember what the before and after were. After all, it was gonna go into a work truck.

Delta ground the new billet core for 454v2.
They also took a Summit 228/238 cam I had lying around, made it into a nice hefty solid flat tappet.
They also ground a SBC cam for me, like a 60103 just on a 112 LSA. Chad's street 70 with a 350 and worked 305 heads ran bottom 13s.

Delta always quick service. They are long overdue for their new building, shoulda been years ago...now a matter of weeks.

I like it!
I figured a stump puller build would turn your crank
 

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Regarding regrinds...

Seems to me that you can get a nice used roller cam with close-enough specs rather than spend the money on one of these GM steel take-outs, shipping 3x, and the regrind price. And you still need to run a 35.00 melonized distrib gear with the GM steel cams (they arent billet). I just sold a sweet 234/236 .600 112LSA billet HR with cast iron gear option for 125.00 for example.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Of course any day at work that i want to sneak something of my own to do i end up being really busy with real work. So needless to say i did not get a chance to talk to Delta.

Vinny, i agree with hoping to find something close already ground, this is why i have not commited to a regind just yet---and like i said, if i have to run what i have for the moment, so be it. So i'll keep my search on for now. I probably passed a bunch of useable cams over the past year but i didn't have what i wanted out of the build down pat untill now. Yea, i'd be willing to pay around that $125 for something already done if it was what i wanted.

65cayne, thanks for the :thumbsup:. I need just enough HP to make it reasonably fast too, but yea, torque is where its at.
 

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...I figured a stump puller build would turn your crank...
What gave that away?

Hey they are all good...I believe pure street should be limited to huge torque under 5k...that's why his build intrigues me..something different. I do think a steeper cam would help but hey, my 60201 is pretty weenie too.:thumbsup:
 

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I bought 3 or 4 of those cams from a guy in Washington State. As I recall, they were out of marine engines.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Talked to Delta, don't know if i caught the guy on a off moment, but not totally personable. Anyways, he recommended the Comp XR276HR grind to be ground on my core (stock L29/HT502 cam). Kinda of funny as i was looking at the ZZ502 cam which is similar. The biggest hang up in the whole deal for me is costs---and how it effects the overall budget. Delta wanted $95 to do the regrind, so figure about $15 each way, i am at $125 using what i have already here. So i will just let this stay an unknown for now i guess--unless i see something out there thats cheap thats already done.
 

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Chad, does that cam have a fuel pump lobe? If not I guess your running a electric pump?
 
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