Boxing in the frame ?
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Gotta make your own... Head down to the local metal supply place and tell them the measurements and get some long plate. Stock up on some grinder wheels and have at it!!! You will have a blast doing it and it will be a nice improvement.
I had the frame boxed in as well as some other modifications that I helped out with on my 70 Chevelle. No kit needed. Just buy a long piece of band iron in the appriopriate thickness. The frame rail walls are only .100"-.125" thick, so 1/8" thick piece of band iron would be fine, although a thickness of .134" or even 3/16 wouldn't be completely out of thw question, but I wouldn't use anything thicker than that in that particular area. I did do other frame strangthening things too, but perhaps that is for another thread. How much power will you have under the hoods of this car? And will it ever see track use? If so, what type of racing?
BTW, if you don't find a local place for steel supply, you can always use places online such as www.metalsdepot.com
BTW, if you don't find a local place for steel supply, you can always use places online such as www.metalsdepot.com
I am planning on putting a 502 ci 500 hp motor in. As far as the track goes probly not but it an autocross event swings my way ???? Finding the metel for doing this project wont be a challenge seeing as i am a welder but this is my first go at a restoration on a car so i would be more than happy to see what you guys have done to beef up the frame/suspension. I just finished getting the body on stands and the final tear down on the frame. I was planning on getting sc&c suspension seeing asthoe good words are said about them on here. Hotchkis seems a little exspensive for what you get and i am way out in left feild about global west. Open to any comments thanks.
I'm mostly into the drag racing, and street/strip straight line thing, and some of the following might not apply to your set-up, but FWIW, here's some pics of what I have done to my chevelle for some ideas for you. I used cardboard to cut out templates, and I then traced the shaped onto a pice of 1/4" thick mild steel, and then brought the 4' x 5' piece of steel I had to a metal working shop near by, and they used a shearing press to cut out the small pieces perfectly. They only charged me $200 to cut 33 pieces, and the the tubing I but myself. The tubing is .134" wall thickness, and .190" wall thickness mild steel.
I don't know much about welding, but the eason I chose mild steel instead of the popular chrmemoly, is because a welding article i read stated that once chromely tube is wlede, it needs to be stressed relived with 300-500 degrees of heat, and on most cars, that would mean that the entire car would have to be placed inside an autoclave at those temperatures, and interior parts won't survive that, not to mention some body paints. It stated that unless the chromemoly gets this type of stress relief done with heat, the metal around the welds will twist up over time, and cause strenght and structural issues. But with mild steel there's no need for stress relieving. Perhaps you already know this......
this first pic is with the frame sitting upsidedown, and you can see that in addition to the boxing of the C-channel frame rails, I also had a shelf welded onto the boxing pieces seeing is how you will no longer have an open C-channel there to bolt the transmission crossmember to, you might want to consider doing this too....
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being the over-the-top kind of guy that I tend to be, and with 800 HP under the hood, I just couldn't leave it at that, and I took things a little further by doing this below.....
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..and the rear attaching point seen below....
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Look close at the two pics below, and you'll see the gusset welded in near the front control arm mounting points.....I did that for durability during wheelstands at the dragstrip, when the wheelie is over, and the car comes crashing back down to the ground, but I would imagine that there might be a benefit in this for hard cornering in a circle track or roadcourse application...just a guess though.....
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now for the rear of the frame....below is exhibit A: flimsey rear lower cotrol arm frame brackets prone to twist without bracing.....
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...and the remedy that I chose....(notice the hole left for the emergency brake cable....
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I don't know much about welding, but the eason I chose mild steel instead of the popular chrmemoly, is because a welding article i read stated that once chromely tube is wlede, it needs to be stressed relived with 300-500 degrees of heat, and on most cars, that would mean that the entire car would have to be placed inside an autoclave at those temperatures, and interior parts won't survive that, not to mention some body paints. It stated that unless the chromemoly gets this type of stress relief done with heat, the metal around the welds will twist up over time, and cause strenght and structural issues. But with mild steel there's no need for stress relieving. Perhaps you already know this......
this first pic is with the frame sitting upsidedown, and you can see that in addition to the boxing of the C-channel frame rails, I also had a shelf welded onto the boxing pieces seeing is how you will no longer have an open C-channel there to bolt the transmission crossmember to, you might want to consider doing this too....
being the over-the-top kind of guy that I tend to be, and with 800 HP under the hood, I just couldn't leave it at that, and I took things a little further by doing this below.....
..and the rear attaching point seen below....
Look close at the two pics below, and you'll see the gusset welded in near the front control arm mounting points.....I did that for durability during wheelstands at the dragstrip, when the wheelie is over, and the car comes crashing back down to the ground, but I would imagine that there might be a benefit in this for hard cornering in a circle track or roadcourse application...just a guess though.....
now for the rear of the frame....below is exhibit A: flimsey rear lower cotrol arm frame brackets prone to twist without bracing.....
...and the remedy that I chose....(notice the hole left for the emergency brake cable....
the view of that from the rear....(I used 1/4" thick mild steel. This is one of the places I spoke of where I used cardboard to make templates, and then traced the shapes onto the 1/4" thick mild steel sheet that I had purchased to then be brought to have the pieces cut out from)...
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Now unto beefing up the rear crossmember of the frame....the first two pics below is the factory stock configuration what I started out with....note that all the places where I ground and sanded off the paint were the places that new pieces would be welded in.....
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I didn't like how thin the upper control arm mounting ears were....(too much potential for flex and twist IMO....
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...the progression of the changes begins here.....(notice how I had pieces welded onto the upper conmtrol arm mounting ears which I traced out and had cut to the same exact shapes of the original ears. Tis made the mounting ears three tines as thick as they originally were from the factory. the tricky part was drilling the mounting bolt holes in them at the exact locations of the original pieces so they would line up. It took a little careful attention, and patience, but it was successful and it came out right....
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then, everything got boxed-in for more strength, and take note of the gussets I placed all around those thicker upper mounting ears (below)...overkill? Perhaps...BTW, i also uised the Edelbrock traingular braces to tie the front upper and lower control arm mounting points together.
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Now unto beefing up the rear crossmember of the frame....the first two pics below is the factory stock configuration what I started out with....note that all the places where I ground and sanded off the paint were the places that new pieces would be welded in.....
I didn't like how thin the upper control arm mounting ears were....(too much potential for flex and twist IMO....
...the progression of the changes begins here.....(notice how I had pieces welded onto the upper conmtrol arm mounting ears which I traced out and had cut to the same exact shapes of the original ears. Tis made the mounting ears three tines as thick as they originally were from the factory. the tricky part was drilling the mounting bolt holes in them at the exact locations of the original pieces so they would line up. It took a little careful attention, and patience, but it was successful and it came out right....
then, everything got boxed-in for more strength, and take note of the gussets I placed all around those thicker upper mounting ears (below)...overkill? Perhaps...BTW, i also uised the Edelbrock traingular braces to tie the front upper and lower control arm mounting points together.
more support welded in with some tubing....(this is an aftermarket Strange Engineering Dana 60 rear BTW, called their "S-60" rear set-up for GM A-body coil sprung cars so don't let that throw you off. This is a 1970 Chevelle I'm working on here)....
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Obvously all of this added some weight to the car. Since this is a drag type car,most of the weight being added over the rear tires or close to it is pretty good for my application even though it is also unsprung weight. But for your application where you'll likely be concerned with handling around corners, you'll likely be concerned about the extra weight, and therefore you might not want to do everything that I've done. But perhaps some things you can use.
I hope this helps you out and gives you ideas. I know that in many race cars, roll cages go a long way to beef up and support the frame, but some of these areas that I've addressed here, (particularly the ones around the rear crossmember) don't really get directly supported by most roll cages, and terefroe are still open to flex and distortion. It's for this reason why some drag cars end up having to get back halved, but again, that isn't something that would concern you directly because of your power level and your application.
Obvously all of this added some weight to the car. Since this is a drag type car,most of the weight being added over the rear tires or close to it is pretty good for my application even though it is also unsprung weight. But for your application where you'll likely be concerned with handling around corners, you'll likely be concerned about the extra weight, and therefore you might not want to do everything that I've done. But perhaps some things you can use.
I hope this helps you out and gives you ideas. I know that in many race cars, roll cages go a long way to beef up and support the frame, but some of these areas that I've addressed here, (particularly the ones around the rear crossmember) don't really get directly supported by most roll cages, and terefroe are still open to flex and distortion. It's for this reason why some drag cars end up having to get back halved, but again, that isn't something that would concern you directly because of your power level and your application.
Looks like I have alot of new ideas, what suspension are you running with 800 hp , and how did that shelf work out for you i was kinda pondering what to do there but that seems like a good idea but did you have to chop the tranny crossmember down ?
I have aftermarket boxed lower control arms in the rear (Edelbrock) with the poly bushings in them, and Edelbrock adjustable upper rear control arms. The aftermarket Dana 60 rear end I have in it has mounting ears for the uppers that are 1.5" taller than that of a stock GM 12 bolt housing, so that improves the instant center for better dragstrip launch traction. Stock BB rear coil springs, aftermarket double adjustable shock absorbers on all four corners, a 1 3/8" diameter rear bolt-on solid anti-roll bar, and in front, right now I have the stock BB coil springs, but they will liely be replaced with either the tal Moroso drag race front springs that I have, or perhaps Santhuff drag race ones.
The welded on shelfs were originally intended to have holes drilled into them in order to bolt in the stock transmission crossmember after shortening it a little bit, but that whole idea went south once I decided to beef up things a little more by welding on those tubes on each side, making the set-up a four frame rail deal instead of the factory two frame rail. I couldn't use the factory transmission anyway since it would not provide enough clearence for the 3.5" diameter mandrel bent exhaust that I purchased from www.torquetechexh.com so I went and bought a heavy duty support "double hump" transmission crossmember from summit racing, and I had to cut it and weld the mounting ends back onto it to make it shorter, and then I had steel brackets welded onto those frame rail tubes so that I can bolt the new crossmember to them. If you ned pics of that, I can take more for you and post them if you like. Just say the word.
here is that heavy duty crossmember below....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-770308/
I found a guy parting an Elco with front frame cracks and bought the side rails, which are boxed, for $30/pair. They will need to be cut out of the frame sections , but the correct boxes are there. Shorten to fit a 2 door and there ya go, a way to make a boxed frame Monte Carlo without sacrificing a vert chassis.
Now to find a nice Elco chassis for my Wagon...
Now to find a nice Elco chassis for my Wagon...
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BillyGman... How did these frame mods work out for you now that it's been awhile since you did them? What you got here has given me a lot of ideas on what to do with my 67. Is there anything you would change?
Thanks! These look really good!
Thanks! These look really good!
Jeff, I wouldn't change anything, no. Keep in mind though that this won't replace the need for a roll cage, and also that I probably added about 100 LBS to the car.
I believe there are a couple places that do. I did a lot more than just boxing the frame rails. That's how it started. But again, a roll cage is the most important thing you can do to stiffen things up on the frame.
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all lemans cutlass and skylark converts are boxed if you find one of them. pretty easy to shorten that kick up on the back. gs cars are boxed but idk about 442 or gto.
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Yes I plan on doing a cage as well. Thanks!
OK then, feel free to send me a PM if you have more questions.
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Will do, thanks!
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