[gibbons]

I always wanted some beehive springs for my 468, but with a flat tappet and the wrong stem height, I didn't do it. Don't know why I wanted them, they just sounded fun. In researching them, I thought I noticed that everyone (Crane, Lunati, etc, etc) published the exact same specs, like one company was making them for everyone.

Anyway, if a stock zz502 floats around 5800 as I have heard, I don't particular want any random meetings with the pistons if I goof up on shift RPM. And yes, I know the stock cam doesn't have any power up there anyway. I have a Digital 6AL to limit things, but still, ya never know what might happen.

Soooo.... are the beehive springs you see out there the right diameter, height, and spring rate to drop into a stock zz502 head, while keeping the lifters happy?

Another dumb question...

 

[Mike]

Re: Are BB behive springs the right specs for a stock zz502?

Have you researched this at all?
Any findings so far?
Would be easy to get the ZZ502 spring specs and compare them to what's available in the beehives.
Don't even need a spring checker to figure it out.
Not hard to determine the spring from the posted specs most mfg's give.
Even if the installed height's are different ,they give the rate per inch so you can figure it out with a calculator.
Info on spring bind is provided also.

 

[gibbons]

This is the start of my research I am hoping that someone will just say, "been there, done that". I don't know where to look to find the stock spring specs, or I would do that analytical compare. When I was toying with the idea for my 468, I actually bought the lunati and crane springs and retainers to hold in my hands to check them out. I also bought a spring pressure tester, which I used on them and subsquently the generic Lunatis I reluctantly had to use. That's how I know that the beehive suppliers either copied each other exactly, or one company makes them.

 

[d1_bradley]

Stock ZZ502 spring specs

http://citycratemotors.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=324382

 

[Malibu ss 64]

I have a 468 with a zz 502 cam and edelbrock heads(gmpp heads are made by edelbrock).
Went with this springs.
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=474&gid=192
Had Mike Lewis install them when he fixed the heads.

Marcus

 

[cstraub]

I don't recommend beehives on a BBC. Great for Dyno numbers to print, lousy for longevity. Run a good dual with damper in the 1.500 to 1.550" OD range and you will be good.

 

[Two Lane]

Here's the beehives, even greater gains if teamed with CC tool steel or titanium retainers:

http://www.compperformancegroupstor...oduct_Code=26120-16&Category_Code=GENVIValves


Comp Cam has a tech forum for all their products also.

Alternatively, you can also "Karl & Ax" any Qs.


HTH

 

[gibbons]

To my point, check out the specs on the CompCams and Lunati springs that Marcus and TwoLane linked. They have the exact same specs. There were more than those two with the same specs, one was one of them was esoteric super high end component company, with the same specs for twice as much.

Hey Chris, what do you mean by longevity, are beehives known to fail or something?

This is next winter's project by the way, I am still monkeying with my ignition, fuel system, and driveline. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have something in do in my 20 degree garage on winter nights.

 

[Two Lane]

Hey Chris,


what do you mean by longevity,


are beehives known to fail or something?

OMIGOD!!


Does this mean all those tens-of-thousands of miles, and all those millions of RPMS, in a 1/2 dozen cars, over the past 9 years, and 130+ beehives

on various SBC, BBC, SB/BB Mopar, & SBF...I have unknowingly been on the brink of disaster with every single rev!!!


If I'm THAT special & THAT lucky, I'm going out & get the winning LOTTO ticket tonight!! But, fearful of those beehives, I'll call a cab of course.

 

[R66SS427]

OMIGOD!!


Does this mean all those tens-of-thousands of miles, and all those millions of RPMS, in a 1/2 dozen cars, over the past 9 years, and 130+ beehives

on various SBC, BBC, SB/BB Mopar, & SBF...I have unknowingly been on the brink of disaster with every single rev!!!


If I'm THAT special & THAT lucky, I'm going out & get the winning LOTTO ticket tonight!! But, fearful of those beehives, I'll call a cab of course.

Hey bud, messin with the best cam/valvetrain guy in the business won't win you much respect on this board. :noway:

 

[magicrat56]

i was going down the same road with the beehives until you stop and think about how heavy a big blocks valve train is and in the end its still a single spring; if it lets go it must likely will drop that valve. do as chris advises on a nice set of true dual spring set-up. i always follow what the factory did and more important what the cam company lists. just my 2 cents. K.I.S.S., always works for me!

 

[Elcoman]

I don't recommend beehives on a BBC. Great for Dyno numbers to print, lousy for longevity. Run a good dual with damper in the 1.500 to 1.550" OD range and you will be good.

Thanks, you saved me some money.:thumbsup:

Gibbons, Thanks for asking too many questions. :thumbsup:l
I thought these beehive springs were the greatest thing, but now we know the truth. I guess if you change springs a lot they would be worth it.

 

[Wolfplace]

All Beehives are not created equal & are not the same manufacturer regardless of what it looks like

I have a number of sets out there even a couple in sft circle track engines with 3 or 4 seasons on them & so far I have had zero failures

That in no way makes them the best choice or the only choice but I certainly do not have a problem using them in many applications including BB's

 

[crazydavey]

Chris didn't say they break but I suspect on a heavy valvetrain they may not hold up to that pressure. I don't know anyone going fast with beehives in a big block. Then again, what would one of the best cam guys in the business know about valve springs...doh!!!!

 

[cstraub]

To my point, check out the specs on the CompCams and Lunati springs that Marcus and TwoLane linked. They have the exact same specs. There were more than those two with the same specs, one was one of them was esoteric super high end component company, with the same specs for twice as much.

Hey Chris, what do you mean by longevity, are beehives known to fail or something?

This is next winter's project by the way, I am still monkeying with my ignition, fuel system, and driveline. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have something in do in my 20 degree garage on winter nights.

LS GM Engines have very LIGHT valve train. They also have a VERY LARGE cam core. Both of these help to reduce harmonics greatly.

Do I sell parts to cylinder head companies running beehives. Yes but it is all LS series use. Do I sell beehive stuff to cylinder head companies for BBC, NO NONE!!!!!!! The BBC cylinder head has a heavy valvetrain. A single ovate wire spring that looks like a beehive is not the way to go.

 

[cstraub]

OMIGOD!!


Does this mean all those tens-of-thousands of miles, and all those millions of RPMS, in a 1/2 dozen cars, over the past 9 years, and 130+ beehives

on various SBC, BBC, SB/BB Mopar, & SBF...I have unknowingly been on the brink of disaster with every single rev!!!


If I'm THAT special & THAT lucky, I'm going out & get the winning LOTTO ticket tonight!! But, fearful of those beehives, I'll call a cab of course.

One of my cylinder head mfgs gave these things ago years ago. After he had heads out there with some age on them they ran into some issues. Hence they don't use the "hive" anymore.

A bit more information. They tried beehives in the 70's. Call Isky and ask them. This is not new technology.... just revisited technology.

GM has the $$$ to spintron and cycle test this stuff on their chosen cam profiles and develop an engine combination. Me, I am going with what has worked for decades. May give up a few HP's but to the street strip guy 4 HP is not enough to worry about.

 

[GoFast Beaumont]

i dont know what the big deal is here... I have run the same beehives for 3 years on the street and the track. Heres what i am running.

AFR 305 heads
Comp Beehives 26120-16
Comp Cams 11-460-8
Comp Cams Short Trvl Race Hyd Lifters 15854-16
Comp Pro Magnum Rockers (style before the ultras)
Comp Steel Retainers and Lash Caps
Comp Pro Magnum Pushrods

The rev limiter is set at 6800 right now, i hit the shift at 65/6600. I will probably upgrade to the 410lbs beehive spring as i want to raise the limiter. This engine likes to rev. After talking with comp on the lifters they say they are good too roughly 7500 depending on valve train, i doubt i will need to go there with my cam but for now it wants a little more. So with that said, would it work on a 502..... i would think so

 

[Schurkey]

A bit more information. They tried beehives in the 70's.

Oldsmobile was using them in the late '50's.

 

[Harold Sutton]

OMIGOD!!


Does this mean all those tens-of-thousands of miles, and all those millions of RPMS, in a 1/2 dozen cars, over the past 9 years, and 130+ beehives

on various SBC, BBC, SB/BB Mopar, & SBF...I have unknowingly been on the brink of disaster with every single rev!!!


If I'm THAT special & THAT lucky, I'm going out & get the winning LOTTO ticket tonight!! But, fearful of those beehives, I'll call a cab of course.

I'd bet that Chris has way more input than you do. He just passed on some good advice that there are potential problems in a single spring setup. P.S..... I don't think PAC supplies Comp with springs anymore.

 

[GRN69CHV]

Practical hands on experience. I think it's a toss up. My experience, you will get better results with Beehives if ran to very close to coil bind. Lunati/Pac 74855 (408 rate) that I ran showed "0" signs of fatigue after 1-1/2 seasons of driving and racing. JMHO, a lot has to do with lobe intensity, total lift and intended rpm. Up to .600" lift, PAC 1220, Comp 26120 seem to work well. Get over this (ie .650"lift) and step to the 408 springs, advantage of the Beehive in regards to potentially less bleed down may diminish as you are now into dual spring pressure territory (160 seat/425 open at .650"). Development of lite wt tool steel retainers for dual springs makes dual springs more favorable. I have both a dual spring/titanium retainer setup (473 rate) and 74855 Beehive/ tool steel retainer (408 rate) setup for my heads, need to make a choice. Dual springs will set at 160/467, Beehives will set at 160/425. both based on .650" lift, difference of 42# over the nose between the two. I would be comfortable running either one on a .650 lift hyd roller to 6200-6300 rpm.

Back to the OP, on your ZZ502, I would swap out the factory steel retainers for the new lite wt tool steel "mini" retainers, shim the now broken in springs to 150 seat. Open pressures will be in the 350 range, more than enough for the rpm range and ramps of that cam. Keeping the dual springs, tool steel retainers are a wash in cost whether for Beehives or duals. If you go Beehives, you will have cost of the springs plus different seat locators.