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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I currently have a complete aftermarket suspension on my car. Upper and lower control arms and coilovers on the front. The car was not driving right so I took it to a guy know here in the area as being the best alignment guy around, but he is very old school. I had cars to him in the past so knew what to expect. He ripped me for about 20 minutes on how I ruined the nicest Chevelle he ever saw by putting the aftermarket stuff on the front suspension. He said for a street car the only way to go is stock parts with rubber bushings. He was also showing me how my tie rods run at a very sharp angle and should be basically parallel to the road and he could not get the camber caster even close to what they were designed to be from GM. He was sayin how the POLY has no return and it essentially binds the car.


He chewed me for quite a while and said pretty much all he could do was get the toe right., said the geometry was just WAY off.He is a grumpy man but do think he knows his stuff. But I also know tons of guys run the aftermarket stuff.


So curious if anyone went back to stock and if they are glad they did..


I figure with everyone going tubular and coilovers, stock should be pretty easy to find and mine easy to sell :)
 

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I'm still close to stock with only coil overs at the front. All new stock bushings, tie rods, ball joints, new springs and control arms. Between all of these and a Jeep Grand Cherokee steering box for fifty bucks, it rides and drives just fine for me.

Rick

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Stock suspension leaves a lot to be desired. If he is old school he may not know the value of an improved suspension geometry.

Maybe, his point was he could not get the geometry to where it should be, in his opinion, because it was out of adjustment on the top arms. I don't have the specs with me as to where it is now and where he wanted it.
 

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I'd gladly drive up there and swap with you. 0:):grin2:
 

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After installing the aftermarket suspension on my Chevelle, I took it to an old school place (with a great reputation) to be aligned. The older tech (probably my age) started in with the same bull**** about ruining a great car. I told him to back the f#@king car out and I'll go somewhere else. The owner heard my response came out and had a talk with the tech and my car was aligned and he did a nice job.

I've sense gone back to have my frame straitened and the owner insisted that I bring it back for alignment when completed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
My car does have some bump steer, he said he can't get it out do to not being able to get the geometry right. he also said because he cannot get the geometry the way he wants it when I turn the car it is going to toe in very quickly....don't know if he is talking BS but he has been there forever and has a great reputation for his work...not his people skills! LOL


I am tempted to find a set of stock upper and lowers and try it..I would leave my Viking coilovers on there.
 

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The purpose of aftermarket stuff is to allow for "better" alignment specs than the OEM. Of course he can't get the old undesirable specs from "new" parts. Geez...why would anyone want 0 degrees caster like the original parts.
 

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Pat when I put on the New UMI Perf Front Tubular Control Arms and Viking Coil Over Kit in the Fall of 2013
the Shop Alignment guy must of done the Alignment according to the Old Stock Specs
and I saw that they were not right when car was sitting in my Driveway
one side/Tire had Toe In/Out and one Tire was kinda Straight

Emailed Ramey at UMI Perf and got from him the Correct Alignment Specs based on the Parts and my Car / Type/Size of Tires etc.

Took the car back to the Alignment Shop and had them Redo the Alignment
and it has been good since, with no Wear on the Inside or Outside of the Front Tires

Maybe you need to do this plus find a Alignment Shop that will follow what Specs you want done to
 

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Stock suspension leaves a lot to be desired. If he is old school he may not know the value of an improved suspension geometry.

Maybe, his point was he could not get the geometry to where it should be, in his opinion, because it was out of adjustment on the top arms. I don't have the specs with me as to where it is now and where he wanted it.
No maybe, stock suspension “sucks.” I have Global West Control arms in the front of my ‘66 and did the alignment myself, had NO issues getting around 6 caster, whatever camber I choose, toe, etc.

Find another guy or do the alignment yourself.
 

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Pat here are the Alignment Specs from Ramey for my 67 with the UMI Perf Parts in 2013

The kits I bought from UMI Perf are now on my car namely;
1. Viking Coil Over Kit 1964-1967 GM A-Body Viking Front Coil Over Kit, Double Adj., Poly [A205-xxxT] - $540.00 : UMI Performance, Inc.
2. Front Tubular Control Arms 64-72 GM A-Body Tubular Upper & Lower Front A-Arm Kit [403133] - $1,149.99 : UMI Performance, Inc.

My Query = I was wondering what specs you could help me with for the Front End Alignment
car has radial tires on the front
a BBC engine 550lb springs on the Coil Overs
Power Steering
one of UMI’s Front Sway Bars

Ramey's Answer = I know you'll be heading down the strip. I'd recommend 5-6 degrees caster, 0.25 deg negative camber, 1/16 toe-in.
The caster will help stability on the top end. The minimal toe will increase trap speed.

If you plan on running more street than strip you can add a bit of toe to 1/8" in.
 

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Unless you were trying to go corner carving with it, I would keep the stock stuff. I went 1.21 in 60' with stock upper and lower control arms, rubber bushings, moroso trick springs, and FINALLY after 20 years a Strange single adjustable shock. My 70 SS streeter has stock parts in it, and that is what I am going to keep. I have a spare set of control arms that need to be rebuilt. I would like to ultimately rebuild them and then swap out my stuff, but also hate tripping over them in the garage with all the other junk I have in there!!!!!
 
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Pat here is the Specs Ramey gave me for my 67 with the Old School Suspension in 2017

I Need Alignment Specs for the UMI Perf Tubular Control Arms # 403133
64-72 GM A-Body Tubular Upper & Lower Front A-Arm Kit [403133] - $1,149.99 : UMI Performance, Inc.
with the Moroso Trick Springs
http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/47195/10002/-1
and the Comp Eng Shocks set at 80/20
http://www.jegs.com/i/Competition-Engineering/247/2610/10002/-1

Ramey's Answer ;
​5-6 DEG CASTER OR HOWEVER MUCH HE CAN PUT IN IT.
FOR A DRAG CAR MORE CASTER CREATES A MORE STABLE TOP END AND THE CAR DOESN'T WANDER AS MUCH.

0.25 DEG NEG CAMBER

1/16" TOE IN OR AS LITTLE AS 1/32" IF YOU DON'T PUT MANY STREET MILES ON IT.
RUNNING DOWN THE TRACK WITH ZERO TOE GIVES MAXIMUM TRAP SPEED.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
No maybe, stock suspension “sucks.” I have Global West Control arms in the front of my ‘66 and did the alignment myself, had NO issues getting around 6 caster, whatever camber I choose, toe, etc.

Find another guy or do the alignment yourself.

I disagree, stock suspension does not "suck" I have run it on many cars in the past and had it on this Chevelle with zero issues. For a street car there is absolutely nothing wrong with stock. Are there advantages to more modern setup, I am sure there are.


I put it on my car to go with the restomod theme I was going for not because I really needed the performance advantage it supposedly is capable of.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Pat here is the Specs Ramey gave me for my 67 with the Old School Suspension in 2017

I Need Alignment Specs for the UMI Perf Tubular Control Arms # 403133
64-72 GM A-Body Tubular Upper & Lower Front A-Arm Kit [403133] - $1,149.99 : UMI Performance, Inc.
with the Moroso Trick Springs
http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/47195/10002/-1
and the Comp Eng Shocks set at 80/20
http://www.jegs.com/i/Competition-Engineering/247/2610/10002/-1

Ramey's Answer ;
​5-6 DEG CASTER OR HOWEVER MUCH HE CAN PUT IN IT.
FOR A DRAG CAR MORE CASTER CREATES A MORE STABLE TOP END AND THE CAR DOESN'T WANDER AS MUCH.

0.25 DEG NEG CAMBER

1/16" TOE IN OR AS LITTLE AS 1/32" IF YOU DON'T PUT MANY STREET MILES ON IT.
RUNNING DOWN THE TRACK WITH ZERO TOE GIVES MAXIMUM TRAP SPEED.



Ramey and the guys are normally at the fall Carlisle show. I was going to contact him and see if they happen to bring a portable camber/caster gauge with them that I could maybe bring the car up to them.
 

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Pat the 2013 #s for the Coil Overs
and the 2017 #s for the Shock & Coil Springs
are basically the same

Go figure, I thought they would/could be different
 
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I may have missed it, but I don't see where you mention which brand of components you have. If they are not from a company like UMI BMR, Global West, or Hotchkiss, then that may be why there are problems. Do you have good name brand components installed, or are they just the 'whatever Chinese boat they came off of' tubular control arms?? The shop I use had no problems at all aligning my 71 with UMI upper/lowers.
 
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