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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just traded my 87 Grand National to a car lot for a 92 K Blazer. We do all the VTR forms and sign the titles. The following day this slaesman calls me up and says I have to return the truck because the mileage on my Buick is actually 190,000 instead of 90,000mls.
As it turns out, the title on the buick states ( not actual mileage) just below where it says the mileage on the title.

He's done signed his name to my title and my name to the title on the truck, plus I gave him 1500. as part of the trade. I also cancelled my insurance on the buick and started insurance on the truck.

Also as part of the deal, he is to pay for the tax, title, and transfer.

If this car has that many miles, then I've been fooled by the previous owner as he thought the same when he purchased it.
Is it a done deal since he did all the paper work and failed to notice this? or what.
He says that with the car having all those miles he's lucky to get 3500, versus the 5500 which it books for. But yet it's still for sale while parked out in the front of his lot for 6950$. He has both titles as he was to do the transfer as part of the deal and I'm to pick it up when it comes back.

The county clerks office said he has 14 days in which to do the transfers by law.
They also said that when a title reads not actual mileage it either means the odometer didn't work at one time or the engine has been changed. either of which i know nothing about. They also said the when a title reads exceeded mechanical limits that thats when the ododmeter has turned and started all over. Anyone able to help with this?
 

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Well, I can't speak for your local legalities, but generally the courts will decide in your favor. Because the dealer is presumed to have greater responsibility vs the consumer, which makes sense because the dealer buys and sells cars on a daily basis, where the consumer does it only every few years or so.

Past that I kinda think the dealer is scraping kinda low in this case. Seriously, most people would expect that a 14 year old car would have turned the odometer by now, even 190,000 miles is not bad for a daily driven car of that age. And the kind of money you are talking about for your GN or the K Blazer would hardly make anyone think you two were dealing in low mileage cherries.

I say sit back and relax, he'll do the paperwork and move on to the next customer when he realizes that no more money is coming from you. If you must say anything to him, just say that there was no attempt to deceive him and that he had all the paperwork to review before approving the deal. of course you could also tell him the K-Blazer is not everything that he represented it to be.....

Best of luck, Thomas

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I sold used cars for over 15 years and from what I can get from your gist,the dealer has no reason to bother you.

He may be able to say that you misrepresented your trade mileage,but it seems an awful lot to do(go to court) for something hard to prove.

You say that you din't know the mileage was that high? How did he find out? How long did you have the Buick and what did you pay?

Hate to say it, but we have a saying in the used car business..."Buyer's are Liar's"




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Myles Turner, the "odometer rollback specialist"

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Once you sign the contract and drive off the lot it's a done deal. A car dealer will do everything in it's power to make shure you drive off the lot with there car, did anyone ever notice when they mentioned they would come back for a car another day after they signed a contract that the dealer would insist you take delivery of the car right then and there. They are just hoping there ploy works and you return there car, it's there tough luck if they did not notice the mileage was incorrect.
 

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I would go by the dealership with a current newspaper and take a picture with the car and paper together to show that the dealer was not "damaged". Just in case. I would also register the car in your name ASAP.

Steve R
 

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here in wisconsin i believe the law states that if the car is older than 10 yrs old the mileage is no longer valid. not sure of this but that is what i remember. the title will state that also. similar to what yours old title says.

I agree with the others and say it is a done deal.

Gutz

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Sounds to me like the car dealer is trying to pull a fast one on you. He's trying to get more money from you on the assumption that the mileage is more than he thought it was.
I say sit back and bide your time. He'll have to transfer the title within a certain amount of time.
Your deal is a deal.
He's trying to work you over.
I'll bet, if you tell him you are talking to your attorney---he'll finish the deal right quick !
Call the Better Business Bureau (BBB) and see what they say.

Nate
 

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A response from someone with a law degree (an unemployed lawyer, but making more money at something else
):

Here is one of the main issues, party A (dealer) claims the odometer reading on the vehicle does not match document(s) provided. Argument, false representation.

Party B (red2rider) claims "no knowledge," therefore, it should be a "done" deal.

Fact: Ignorance is not a defense <ignorance as in "not knowing">

For example, "Your honor, I did not know there was a 1 pound cocaine bag in my trunk". "Your honor, I did not know the speed limit is 65 mph."

The laws are writen to eliminate these factors.

Now, these are general terms. I am not certain of the laws in your State nor jurisdiction.

I just want you to be aware that ignorance (not knowing) is not a defense. You are still liable.

One argument they may present is fraud. Now, this is not to say you are guilty, but it is one of their options to present a case.

Will they drag this out? Who knows. Unfortunately, it's the guys with the deepest pockets that can drag it out to drain the other party. This is one of the fundamental strategies.

Thank god for lawyers, else, we have nothing to argue about....just kidding..


If you are being truthful, then there is nothing to worry about. But, it does not mean you are NOT liable because you were "unaware".

Good luck.


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To add, in case this gets dragged out, which it probably won't, search for all your old receipts.

Old receipts may include all services done to the vehicle (Grand National). Why? Every time you bring in your car for service, they record your mileage on the work order.

If you have these receipts in order, you can substantiate that the mileage on the vehicle is legitimate under YOUR ownership.

This will help your case but it is NOT the final decision factor.
 

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I think you will be in the clear, you have a few things going for you.

1) The title states 'not actual mileage' which could imply many things; the odmeter broke and was replaced, an engine was replaced, registered in a state that does not require mileage reading when a car is x number of years old, etc.

It would be up to the dealer to prove that there was a 190K miles of wear on the car.


2) The dealer had time to examine the car and title when signed over. If anything was not correct, they had a chance to stop the deal.

3) The dealer still has the car for sale in the front lot. If they don't plan on keeping the car, why are they trying to sell it?

I think the dealer is angling for some more cash from you. Since "It's not as worth as much", yet he will sell it to next person that comes along and not say a peep about the mileage, and if they come back about it, the dealer will say you should have looked over the title more closely.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.




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As an aside, you may want to send a friend over to 'test drive' the car. I could ver very interesting to hear what the dealer says about it.

Also, in Wisconsin, the milage must be posted on the sales slip in the window. Have him see what the dealer is saying it's got for milage.
 

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I think Byfield has a great idea. It may take some cordination, but you maybe able to catch the dealer at his own game. Here's what you do.

If the dealer calls you again, tape record the converstation if possible. This shows he believes the car has 190K miles on it.

Send over a friend (preferably some younger guy and a couple of his friends and have them act all excited about the car). Just don't have them know too much about the car or cars in general, just act'dumb' but with rich parents attitude who will buy it for me.

Have that friend tape record any conversation with the dealer about the car (with multiple friends there you have witnesses to the conversation if the tape recording does not work). Have one say something to the effect: "The car does not look to bad, only 90K miles on it" (but not to early, you want the dealer to think he has an easy sale and would not want to pass anything negative info like higher miles than what the odemeter says"

If the dealer corrects them that the odemeter is inaccurate, have them ask "Well how many miles do you think are on it?" See if he gives a figure lower then the 190K he has stated to you.

If the dealer agrees and passes it off as only 90K miles, you got him right were you want him. Balls to the wall
Have the friends play out the scene and eventually leave. Later on, confront him with the recording and mention your options of what you think you might pursue legally against him. Go get'em




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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well heres the latest.
I had my wife drive by and take a picture of the car sitting out front on the lot with a 6950$ price tag on it. Been there for 4 days and going.
Contacted my lawyer who says the papers have been signed, money has changed hands, the deal is done.
I'm still doing a title search on the car to find out for sure if it really has that many miles. Like the circuit court clerk said. (exceeds mechanical limits) only means the odometer has turned over. Not actual mileage could mean many things...
 

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You could have avoided all this odometer mileage talk if you would have gotten hold of a Myles_Turner to spin it back beforehand!

Steve

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Myles Turner, the "odometer rollback specialist"

"The difference between Men and Boys are the price of their toys"

1970 SS 396 TH400
 

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I am a lawyer. I wish I could help you but the fact of the matter is, laws on this type of issue are very state specific.
Now, if I were you, I wouldn't worry about it. He'll have to pay filing fees and a lawyer to sue you. Probably not worth his time or his lawyers'.
Move on with your life and just let this guy stew in his own juices.
Wish I could help more...
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Enganeer:
If the dealer calls you again, tape record the converstation if possible. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Better get his permission first - and on tape. Tape recording anyone against their knowledge IS a crime...remember Linda Tripp?




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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Better get his permission first - and on tape. Tape recording anyone against their knowledge IS a crime...remember Linda Tripp?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not in every state!! Kansas or Missouri (I can't remember which one) law states that only one party has to have knowledge that the conversation is being recorded. Check your local, state and federal laws before proceeding!!

It would be fun, but only if he threatens you anymore.
 
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Tell him I'll give him his 3500.00 for the Buick. A 87 GN for a 92 dime a dozen K5 Blazer bro what are you drinking? j/k
Hope it works out for ya. I wouldn't sweat it it's not like they haven't been entirely truthful to others flowing thru the doors. They're just whining cause they think you got them, which I'm sure you didn't by a long shot.
 

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Kansas will allow the recording of conversations. As indicated each state is different about the transfer of titles. Your problem is that the dealer is holding your title if I am reading correct. He will have a certain amount of time to deliver the title or be in violation of state law. That is when you contact your attorney general for assistance.
 
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