[rubadub]

If this holds true, the prices of the chevelles should go up a point or two.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...i-bizfront-hed

Sorry it won't come up, anyway its on the camaro forum about GM not building any rear wheel drive cars, I guess the camaro still will.

Rob

 

[EkS]

Here's the article...

GM puts brake on rear-drive vehicles


Published April 10, 2007
Jim Metaja, Chicago Tribune

General Motors has put a hold on future rear-wheel-drive vehicles.

"We've pushed the pause button. It's no longer full speed ahead," Vice Chairman Bob Lutz revealed in an interview.

Two of the most important RWD cars in the works are the Chevy Camaro sports coupe due back late in 2008 and the full-size, RWD replacement for the Chevy Impala sedan for 2009. Both are expected to be huge sellers and contribute major profits to a GM till burdened with IOUs the last few years.

"It's too late to stop Camaro, but anything after that is questionable or on the bubble," said Lutz, noting that also means Camaro derivatives -- along with a big Impala sedan, "if we call it Impala."

The RWD cars, you see, would be larger and heavier than front-wheel-drive cars or are high-performance models.

So it comes down to the matter of fuel economy. Or as Lutz says: "We don't know how to get 30 percent better mileage from" RWD cars.

That 30 percent bogey arises from a proposal by the Bush administration to raise corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards by 4 percent a year so cars would have to average 34 m.p.g. by 2017, up from 27.5 m.p.g. today. On top of that, the Supreme Court ruled last week that the Environmental Protection Agency can regulate carbon dioxide expelled by cars, a gas that contributes to global warming. The EPA doesn't do so now.

"We'll decide on our rear-drive cars when the government decides on CO(-2) levels and CAFE regulations," Lutz said, adding that limiting CO(-2) would increase mileage, too.

"Carbon dioxide is a natural byproduct of burning gas and directly proportional to the amount of fuel burned. If we legislate CO(-2) from cars, why not legislate we take one less breath per minute since humans release capricious amounts of CO(-2) each time they exhale?" offered a testy Lutz.

Lutz also points out that higher mileage will come at a price, with the proposal to raise CAFE certain to increase costs by as much as $5,000, which will be added to a car's sticker, an amount most consumers won't be willing to pay. There are no hard numbers for how much CAFE compliance adds to the sticker now.

"Rather than buy new, people would hang onto their old cars. We could eat the $5,000, but that would put us out of business."

Besides, those who see cars as more than just an appliance are eager for the new RWD offerings.

Among other cars affected are a high-performance midsize Pontiac, a replacement for the full-size Buick Lucerne sedan, a compact smaller than the current CTS at Cadillac and possible 300-horsepower versions of the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky roadsters.

"This is very disappointing," noted Erich Merkle, director of forecasting for IRN Inc., in Grand Rapids, Mich. Most of the cars coming are necessary to GM's turnaround as showroom magnets.

"What the public buys makes CAFE work, not what the industry builds," Merkle added. "To improve mileage you change demand, not supply, by raising gas prices through taxes. But no politician is going to do that so they throw the responsibility on the back of the industry."

Lutz also objects to the talk that carmakers can easily raise mileage with a very low investment.

"Academics assure us that for $200 we can get 30 percent better mileage. If anyone can figure out how to do that for $200 -- or even for $1,000 -- I want them in my office today. Show me how to do it and we'll adopt it," he said. "If I could increase mileage by 30 percent for $200, why wouldn't I? What's my motivation not to when a gas-electric hybrid gets 27 percent better mileage and I hope someday to get the cost down to $9,000?"

Others insist that carmakers simply have to sell more small cars, such as the trio of 1-liter concepts that promise 40 m.p.g.-plus that GM unveiled at the New York Auto Show.

"Small-car mileage only counts toward CAFE if you build them here, and you can't build small cars here at a profit," Lutz said, explaining that foreign-made cars would count toward the automaker's import fleet, and its domestic fleet is where GM needs help.

 

[quikss]

Well it's nice to know that even our auto makers think that instead of the cars getting better mileage they feel the government should just raise the fuel prices more to limit peoples driving. What a bunch of jackasses:sad:

Jeff

 

[Chevello]

It's those dang carmakers not selling enough small cars, that's what it is. Man, if they just sold more of them, all the problems of the world would go away. That's the ticket!

I'd like to have a few of the "tiny cars are the solution" people make my daily commute on I-95 through Philly a few times in one of those Smart cars, or any one of the other teeny little "solutions" that are out there.

As long as there are big rigs in a hurry on the interstate, I'm not getting anything that doesn't have some metal between me and those 18 wheels. That said, I'd love to buy an Electric or even a true Hybrid commuter car if I had a safer place to drive it to work, and it was affordable.

Fuel mileage is great, but so is crash surviveability. I'd rather bounce off a Kenworth than go under the tires.

As for FWD vs RWD, it's all about manufacturing cost. It is WAY easier to toss an engine/transaxle/ suspension assembly under a car on an assembly line than it is to install an engine/ trans and a driveshaft and a 3rd member in. Plus, the FWD system can be shipped from China/Mexico/Canada/Wherever tested and ready to install. It's not about mileage, it's about manufacturing.

And don't EVEN get me started on Ethanol from corn. I'll have to get out the tinfoil hat.

K

 

[Jim Mac]

I dont understand why they cant make money building small cars. if toyota, hyundai, heck wasnt there something about china buying MG and thinking about building a plant in oklahoma? why cant GM just open a plant in a state and just hire the people it needs to build it. Basically tell them you are getting X number of dollars per hour. company matched so much on your 401K, medical cost you X number of dollars, and vacation is X. Now if you don't want to work for us, theres the door? This is America after all, if the foriegn companies can do it, why cant the domestics? Jim

 

[Twins Fan]

Well it's nice to know that even our auto makers think that instead of the cars getting better mileage they feel the government should just raise the fuel prices more to limit peoples driving. What a bunch of jackasses:sad:

Jeff

Good point man, because obviously the higher gas prices are making people stay of the road. No way, traffic is getting worse everyday.

 

[Carguy00]

I want an all electric car!!

I was just reading the post about GM not producing RWD cars because they need to produce cars that get better gas milage because of the govt standards. They think the govt should raise gas prices so people drive less and then they wont have to worry about so much c02.

Why can't the auto makers produce high milage cheap cars? Seems like most people I talk to want something like an all electric car. Someting that will hit 65MPH, cheap $ to purchase, and has about a 100 mile range or so. Most people commute less than 100 miles/day. When you get home in the evening, plug it in and away you go the next morning. It would be something like a european "Smart car" but electric. Just a thought!!

 

[chevelless502]

Re: I want an all electric car!!

That all sounds well and good but last time i checked electricity wasnt very cheap to use and plugging one in at night is far from being free to run.

Andy

 

[Slowpoke70]

Re: I want an all electric car!!

You could harness the power of the sun at home while you're driving, then plug into that stored energy at night.

 

[sharpie]

It's those dang carmakers not selling enough small cars, that's what it is. Man, if they just sold more of them, all the problems of the world would go away. That's the ticket!

I'd like to have a few of the "tiny cars are the solution" people make my daily commute on I-95 through Philly a few times in one of those Smart cars, or any one of the other teeny little "solutions" that are out there.

As long as there are big rigs in a hurry on the interstate, I'm not getting anything that doesn't have some metal between me and those 18 wheels. That said, I'd love to buy an Electric or even a true Hybrid commuter car if I had a safer place to drive it to work, and it was affordable.

Fuel mileage is great, but so is crash surviveability. I'd rather bounce off a Kenworth than go under the tires.

As for FWD vs RWD, it's all about manufacturing cost. It is WAY easier to toss an engine/transaxle/ suspension assembly under a car on an assembly line than it is to install an engine/ trans and a driveshaft and a 3rd member in. Plus, the FWD system can be shipped from China/Mexico/Canada/Wherever tested and ready to install. It's not about mileage, it's about manufacturing.

And don't EVEN get me started on Ethanol from corn. I'll have to get out the tinfoil hat.

K

:hurray: YES OTHERS CAN SEE THE LIGHT!! THE NEWEST CAR I OWN IS A 1978! THEY CAN KEEP THERE NEW CRAP!

THEY CAN SELL IT TO AL GORE AND HIS 30000.00 A YEAR ENERGY BILL (FOR HIS HOUSE!)! BUT HE CAN DRIVE A PREIES(?) AND SAVE 25.00 A YEAR IN GAS .:sad:

 

[sharpie]

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 12:18 AM
Subject: FW: Story of Two Houses


This is so typical it cracks me up

>
>
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>
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>
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>The four-bedroom home was planned so that 'every room has a relationship
>with something in the landscape that's different from the room next door.
>Each of the rooms feels like a slightly different place.' The resulting
>single-story house is a paragon of environmental planning.The passive-solar
>house is built of honey-colored native limestone and positioned to absorb
>winter sunlight, warming the interior walkways and walls of the
>4,000-square-foot residence. Geothermal heat pumps circulate water through
>pipes buried 300 feet deep in the ground. These waters pass through a heat
>exchange system that keeps the home warm in winter and cool in summer.A
>25,000-gallon underground cistern collects rainwater gathered from roof
>urns; wastewater from sinks, toilets, and showers cascades into underground
>purifying tanks and is also funneled into the cistern. The water from the
>cistern is then used to irrigate the landscaping around the four-bedroom
>home, (which) uses indigenous grasses, shrubs, and flowers to complete the
>exterior treatment of the home. In addition to its minimal environmental
>impact, the look and layout of the house reflect one of the paramount
>priorities:relaxation.A spacious 10-foot porch wraps completely around the
>residence and beckons the family outdoors. With few hallways to speak of,
>family and guests make their way from room to room either directly or by
>way of the porch. 'The house doesn't hold you in. Where the porch ends
>there is grass. There is no step-up at all.' This house consumes 25% of
>the energy of an average American home. (Source: Cowboys and Indians
>Magazine, Oct.2002 and Chicago Tribune April 2001.)House 2: This 20-room,
>8-bathroom house consumes more electricity every month than the average
>American household uses in an entire year. The average household in
>America consumes 10,656 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per year, according to the
>Department of Energy. In 2006, this house devoured nearly 221,000 kWh, more
>than 20 times the national average. Last August alone, the house burned
>through 22,619 kWh, guzzling more than twice the electricity in one month
>than an average American family uses in an entire year. As a result of this
>energy consumption, the average monthly electric bill topped $1,359. Also,
>natural gas bills for this house and guest house averaged $1,080 per month
>last year. In total, this house had nearly $30,000 in combined electricity
>and natural gas bills for 2006. (Source: just about anywhere in the news
>last month online and on talk radio, but barely on TV.)Scroll
>down......................
>
>
>House 1 belongs to George and Laura Bush, and is in Crawford, Texas.House 2
>belongs to Al and Tipper Gore, and is in Nashville, Tennessee.
>
>
>AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
>AOL at AOL.com.

_________________________________________________________________
Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglinemar
ch07

 

[Carguy00]

Re: I want an all electric car!!

That all sounds well and good but last time i checked electricity wasnt very cheap to use and plugging one in at night is far from being free to run.

Andy

At least wed don't have to buy "electricity" from the mideast!

 

[doc j]

I guess Lutz has never heard of a manual transmission?

 

[John R]

...and lessen the weight of these cars; why do we *need* all these bells and whistles, anyhow?!? I understand power windows and door locks as almost 'needed', but what about all the other BS! Let's start thinking 'outside the box' (I hate that cliche, but) and it can be done!