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air gap or strip dominator

1787 Views 59 Replies 17 Participants Last post by  RickSBC400
Hello,

I posted this on camaros.net but they aimed me here as more of a performance crowd. So here goes. Would you run a strip dominator or rpm air gap on this? Combo is primarily street driven, but out of my analysis it rarely is above 3k rpm on the street so i don't really care for the argument how the bottom end will feel since i rarely ever feel it anyway. the converter is a 3k converter and 3.90 gears so it usually is cruising below that rpm range until i get on the hwy. my question is really will a strip dominator's upper end advantage outweigh the lower rpm advantages from the air gap? This will probably only come up when I'm drag racing it as that's when I'll have the traction from a dead stop launch to really feel the impact of my decisions. So what would you do? Combo is below:

bc 400, std bore and stroke,5.7" rods. compression 11:1 or so. flat top pistons with valve reliefs. quench area on deck .005
Hyd roller cam 236/242 111 lsa 108 intake centerline. .584/.584 lift with 1.6 rockers.
afr 210 heads 65cc chambers
sniper efi, so up to 850 cfm i think.
1 3/4 headers with 3" extensions for about 6-8" then 2.5" exhaust thru mufflers.
3k stall, 3.90 gears

Thanks for your opinions.
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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
hi
Ede rpm will cost upper end power not huge amounts but still . The hp cure will drop early .
A big single plain will give less response to low end throttle .
If u go the strip dominator less throttle response but negative impact might be limited due to the efi.

The gain hp from strip dominator will only be 10-15 hp why not enough cam /compression
eg a 400 from 210 heads vic jnr to strip dom ,, from 250-to 260 S/Roller gained 30hp 575hp
Torque below peak will be less

Do u want /need to cut a hole in the hood ???
Weiand 7530 s/plain 1206 ports carb mount is lower than the Ede air gap
Ede rpm 1205 ports ,
Vic Jnr s/plain 1205 ports and carb mount , higher than ede rpm

???? diff ratio means nothing without tire diameter ???
would you consider a strip dominator a 'big single plane'? I thought it wasn' that big compared to other single planes but maybe i'm wrong. I have plenty of hood clearance it is a cowl induction 2" hood 69 camaro. small block sits nice and low. I think the strip dominator actually would sit lower than my current rpm air gap + 1" hvh spacer on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Look up engine masters sbc intake tests.
I have read both their shootouts many times both the dual and single plane intake articles. they are really fun reads. With the cam being swapped it was a bummer bc it would have been nice to see comparisons of the intakes alone on the same 'mule' engine, but can't have it all the ways.
 

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That is a lot of years and then the crank breaking yeesh. what is the story behind that? hope it didn't take down any of the rest of your engine.
I believe the fluid damper inertia ring caused it. I just pulled it out of winter storage It popped as soon as I pulled onto the highway(RPM). The crank broke between the snout and number one rod and kept driving the cam . I actually drove it three miles home. I had alot of money in balancing, I had it internally balanced, took 6 pieces of Mallory was $650 to get done. I have the motor and trans sold already I just have to get it out.
 

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I have read both their shootouts many times both the dual and single plane intake articles. they are really fun reads. With the cam being swapped it was a bummer bc it would have been nice to see comparisons of the intakes alone on the same 'mule' engine, but can't have it all the ways.
Remember your engine is not a 350. An intake manifold test on a 350 cubic inch engine should not be applied to your engine. More cubic inches needs more airflow. Something that worked on a 350 will be a restriction on a 400 with decent cylinder heads, which you have.
 

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hi I`m only based this on net opinions but my personnel interest is mainly low rise for my 400sbc . The other 400sbc is a friend of mine it is now serious street strip ,from previous mentioned setup then went to 12.5 cr 227 Afr heads super victor pk hp 6800-7000 at 640 hp 4500convertor 295 rear tires 4.3 gears

AFR website shows a super vic comparison to smaller s/plain
less tq below peak
more hp above

Impression is that strip dom and the super victor are for the same useage .
I would try either of above since u have EFI and 3.9 gear .
tire diam ??
 

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your post kind of gave me a bit of a chuckle. thank you for that. what do you define as 'never going to go fast' as? is the car in your signature something you drive on the street? what rpm band do you usually operate at so I can understand your viewpoint better and the perspective you are bringing? my combo i'm upgrading from ran 12.35 at 5,800 feet (bandimere speedway) which i felt was going pretty fast for an NA street car, unless the time in your signature is old/not up to date or you are racing at an elevation similar to me i'd pose you aren't going that fast either lol. as to my expensive fancy parts, its just money and it's what i wanted, so i'm ok with your statements and will take them as compliments. but back to the original question, what intake would you choose?
Perhaps this was taking too literally:

"Combo is primarily street driven, but out of my analysis it rarely is above 3k rpm on the street"

When someone tells me that their car is primarily street driven and they rarely go above 3000 RPM, I normally assume they're building a cruiser.....not chasing down MPH and ET at the track.

If you're running 12.35 at 5800 feet, you're making some very good SBC power....but I don't think you're "just" a grocery getter at this point. :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
hi I`m only based this on net opinions but my personnel interest is mainly low rise for my 400sbc . The other 400sbc is a friend of mine it is now serious street strip ,from previous mentioned setup then went to 12.5 cr 227 Afr heads super victor pk hp 6800-7000 at 640 hp 4500convertor 295 rear tires 4.3 gears

AFR website shows a super vic comparison to smaller s/plain
less tq below peak
more hp above

Impression is that strip dom and the super victor are for the same useage .
I would try either of above since u have EFI and 3.9 gear .
tire diam ??
Sorry I missed your last question in your first post. I run a 26.5" tall street tire and slick is the same if not mabye slightly shorter 26" bc I hate how it rubs in my wheel well. Man camaros have annoying rear wheel wells :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I believe the fluid damper inertia ring caused it. I just pulled it out of winter storage It popped as soon as I pulled onto the highway(RPM). The crank broke between the snout and number one rod and kept driving the cam . I actually drove it three miles home. I had alot of money in balancing, I had it internally balanced, took 6 pieces of Mallory was $650 to get done. I have the motor and trans sold already I just have to get it out.
dang man that really sucks sorry to hear that. what is the benefit of internal balancing vs external? I think my motor is external balanced how would i know? I just pulled the oil pan and heads and it was nice seeing hte weight written on each piston and reminded me of oh yeah it was balanced ha. super fun seeing the cylinder walls in good shape, the cross hatch still there and only slight vertical scoring on the outside walls where the piston goes up and down. anyway, sorry to hear about your engine I hope you got some good bucks on the resale.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Perhaps this was taking too literally:

"Combo is primarily street driven, but out of my analysis it rarely is above 3k rpm on the street"

When someone tells me that their car is primarily street driven and they rarely go above 3000 RPM, I normally assume they're building a cruiser.....not chasing down MPH and ET at the track.

If you're running 12.35 at 5800 feet, you're making some very good SBC power....but I don't think you're "just" a grocery getter at this point. :)
I appreciate your follow up post, sure is easy to take written words wrong on the internet, I am guilty of that at times! I used to be quite a little street racing buckaroo but those days are over I'm a parent and a bit more responsible now, at least I'd like to think. But that is not to say i don't 'stretch the belts' nearly every time i take it out the garage and make sure it still can find the upper rpm ranges. I built it to drive and I drive it like I built it, so it gets a lot of spirited accelerations in as safe a manner as I can. That being said, I do like to take it to the track a few times a year and I used to be able to cut a light and run a number I put on the window decently enough so it was fun for that.
 

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hi
26--26.5 inch tires combined with a 3.9 rear gear will be a fun ride . Short geared . As far as I would go . The engine would not spend much time below stall I suspect .

My vehicle runs 26.2 inch tires with 3.6 gear approx 2900 at 60mph . I would not go under 3.4 rear gear . But might cause an issue if I run bigger heads . The short rear gear helps an engine get past a soggy response . But only so much .
To much topend and not enough bottom end drives like some KIA Hyundai that rev to 7300 rpm , no response below 3000rpm . These cars I find a pig to drive on the street .
 

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your post kind of gave me a bit of a chuckle. thank you for that. what do you define as 'never going to go fast' as? is the car in your signature something you drive on the street? what rpm band do you usually operate at so I can understand your viewpoint better and the perspective you are bringing? my combo i'm upgrading from ran 12.35 at 5,800 feet (bandimere speedway) which i felt was going pretty fast for an NA street car, unless the time in your signature is old/not up to date or you are racing at an elevation similar to me i'd pose you aren't going that fast either lol. as to my expensive fancy parts, its just money and it's what i wanted, so i'm ok with your statements and will take them as compliments. but back to the original question, what intake would you choose?
[/QUOTE

Just so you know whats out there, Bandimere that is, 9.76 @ 135 NA production BBC @ Bandimere in street trim.
You would NEVER run the single plane over the air gap @ Bandimere, especially with a 3000 RPM converter.

Car Wheel Tire Land vehicle Vehicle
 

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And its important to understand no one on this forum understands what it like to race in Denvers 10,000 plus DA. A 650 HP/660 TQ engine makes 470 HP @ Denver with 475 TQ, and the averages are way down. In my way of thinking, a 12.30 car shows the math like this:

107 MPH @ 3800 pounds is 359 crankshaft HP
1320/107=12.33
 

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Perhaps this was taking too literally:

"Combo is primarily street driven, but out of my analysis it rarely is above 3k rpm on the street"

When someone tells me that their car is primarily street driven and they rarely go above 3000 RPM, I normally assume they're building a cruiser.....not chasing down MPH and ET at the track.

If you're running 12.35 at 5800 feet, you're making some very good SBC power....but I don't think you're "just" a grocery getter at this point. :)
Tony

The problem with racing @ Bandimere is: just because its 5800 feet elevation, means nothing because its NEVER 5800 feet DA there, I've raced there a lot and 99% of the time its over 8000 feet DA, if your very lucky, usually over 9500 feet. the barometer ranges from 23.60-24.40.
 

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10000 ft can you even breathe up there? He said 5800 and I thought that was bad?
Mark can you compensate some with higher compression to kind of offset the elevation?
What was or is the compression of the BBC in that camaro?
Just curious.
 

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10000 ft can you even breathe up there? He said 5800 and I thought that was bad?
Mark can you compensate some with higher compression to kind of offset the elevation?
What was or is the compression of the BBC in that camaro?
Just curious.
11.90 compression. If I remember right the 505 made 570 observed HP @ 6400 feet elevation on my dyno, corrected HP was 820 HP. It ran 146 MPH + @ Houston with no tuning (1) outing. Weight was 3440.
 

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Tony

The problem with racing @ Bandimere is: just because its 5800 feet elevation, means nothing because its NEVER 5800 feet DA there, I've raced there a lot and 99% of the time its over 8000 feet DA, if your very lucky, usually over 9500 feet. the barometer ranges from 23.60-24.40.
Hey Mark!

I originally thought the OP just had a mellow street cruiser when I read that he didn't much go over 3,000 RPM on the street.
He pointed out that's not the case at all....and he's got a nice, healthy SBC.
I was bummed the last time at the track in mid-November when it was unseasonably warm, with a DA of 1400+ at 1100 feet elevation. I'm spoiled over here compared to you guys. :)
 

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Hey Mark!

I originally thought the OP just had a mellow street cruiser when I read that he didn't much go over 3,000 RPM on the street.
He pointed out that's not the case at all....and he's got a nice, healthy SBC.
I was bummed the last time at the track in mid-November when it was unseasonably warm, with a DA of 1400+ at 1100 feet elevation. I'm spoiled over here compared to you guys. :)
I “think” he relocated to Texas. So I would imagine his new track would be closer to sea level to start with then where he was.
 
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