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A couple of days ago I got an email out of the blue from a guy looking for information and confirmation on a few things regarding a car he had just purchased. He bought it on the internet somewhere (not sure where) and was informed it was a 69 SS with the original engine.

His first communication mentioned he was advised by the seller before the deal was made that somewhere along the line the VIN tag had been changed. For some reason the buyer was not concerned about this. Since then he has received other information on the Data Plate, engine stampings, etc. Here is what we have come up with (thanks to Dale McIntosh for his help on this as well).

- Serial number is a 136379 car built in Freemont, California.
- Build date on trim tag is 1B.
- Engine serial number on block pad is 18S114137.
- Engine code on block pad is T0911JV.
- Only saving grace is the Oshawa Trim Tag confirming some various SS specific options (L35 & B79).

The engine is probably from a full size 1968 Chev. I would say somebody has done a restamp of the "JV" code on the pad which relates to the options on the trim tag. The non original engine is one thing, but with the VIN Tag definitely changed, and the Trim Tag could possibly have been changed, this is a real can of worms.

He has already paid for the car and it is in delivery transit as we speak. The poor guy is so distraught that he doesn't know if he can in fact register it (I think he's in NY State somewhere). He's now considering maybe just parting it out to recoup some of his money.

It's easy to critisize the guy for not doing his homework or proceeding even though he knew the VIN tag had been switched. Then, after the deal is done, all the other crap comes out. Anyway, I'm a compassionate person by nature and do feel sorry for him.

Unfortunately too much of this stuff going on which is all money driven. It's not a hobby anymore, just a quest for the "allmighty buck". End of story.
 

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I get a lot of e-mails from people too regarding the same type of authenticating issues, I guess because my webpage comes up on search engines.

I feel bad for him too.

A certified letter to the seller with a lawyers title head threatening law inforcement involvement for the tampered VIN Plate should be reasonable enough motivation to negotiate a buy back. Worst case, he may lose shipping charges.

I have to re-mention this though.

Who would ever invest in any collectible item of value without some type of research. This applies to anything.

Stocks
Coins
Real Estate
Comic Books
Classic Cars
Magic beans

Not picking on the guy, but a few hours of research on any big ticket purchase goes a long way.
 

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1970 SS454 LS6 11 second street car
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Hal_396 said:
As long as the vin tag matches the title he should be able to it registered in just about any state. As far as the rest goes, poor guy! I hope he didn't pay to much money for it.

Exactly!
Here in CT,if its a classic car (1980 or older) and the car is NOT from CT,the VIN# on the car must match the VIN # on the title or bill of sale.Then,it must be verified by a visual from a DMV inspector.


..and I agree with what Don said said about the hobby being money driven!
 

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Here too the vin must match the bill of sale or old title, and that's inspected
by the state patrol. If he has that right he ought to be able to register since the original vin will not be in the state's computer, being prior to when they went to the 17 digit system. Unless of course, the engine vin turns up as stolen or something. Definitely a can of worms.
 

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bisjoe said:
Here too the vin must match the bill of sale or old title, and that's inspected
by the state patrol.
If he has that right he ought to be able to register since the original vin will not be in the state's computer, being prior to when they went to the 17 digit system. Unless of course, the engine vin turns up as stolen or something. Definitely a can of worms.
If it gets inspected, won't it be likely that the VIN tag RIVETS were changed? Possibly a Red Flag to the inspector? Then the inspector (I'd assume) would want to check the "hidden" vins and see if the car was reported stolen...

I agree that if the VIN on the car and title match (and assuming nothings stolen, etc), the car can probably be registered...



My buddy bought a 66 with NO VIN tag at all... The seller let him take it to the Highway Patrol, and they verified the Hidden VIN matched the title (I think it was "salvaged" too... But since the frame was original, as well as all the body panels appearing original, my buddy still bought the car... The state attached a "State" VIN plate with the original numbers...
 

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i think a lot of these car buying mistakes are cases of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". for example, a buyer may know enough to see if the VIN is on the engine pad, and as soon as that is confirmed, they're done. this case is one where someone was really sloppy in trying to scam someone, but they pulled it off anyway. com'on, a engine assembly date of 9/11 in a car built the second week of january???
i once purchased a "# matching" '68 SS conv, factory 350HP. pretty rare car being a 350HP right? well, after verifying the numbers before sending off the funds, i realized someone had restamped a '71 402 block. if you are going to be a criminal, try to be a good one, pick a '68 block for cryin' out loud. the present owner didn't know about it either, someone else had stamped it. i don't think he would have so easily gave me the block casting number if he was a crook. he'd probably say, "i can't read it....", which is totally believeable.
 

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alss said:
Its not just Chevelles either. My buddy wanted to buy a 69 ragtop Camaro..had all the "right" paper with it. read what happened.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=70699

ALbert

Small World, I know Shoup, we'd used to BS all the time 3 or 4 years ago and I lost contact with him. I sent off e-mail.

Crazy


PS. I hungrily lust after your 70 Misty Turquouse
LS5/M22. Every time I see one of your posts I
open the photo and secretively break one of the
10 commandments. :)
 

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69396ss said:
Small World, I know Shoup, we'd used to BS all the time and I lost contact with him. I sent off e-mail.

Crazy


PS. I hungrily lust the 70 Misty Turquouse LS5/M22
Every time I see one of your posts I open the photo and secretively break one of the
10 commandments.

It is indeed a small world..Lee is a great person finally met him after three years of internet speaking...as for breaking one of the commandments...three valve adjustments on a big block and two oil changes :D

ALbert
 

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Lee is a good guy who is smart enough to send some eyes to look at a purchase before he shelled out some big coin. I have a lot of good customers who spend good money on these cars and you need to know what your looking at is all I can say. Several have been burnt by the repop alternators, distributors, etc, for not knowing what real and whats not. Same thing in paperwork, if your not sure ask someone who does. A couple hundred bucks to save thousands isnt a big gamble.
 

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I know this won't stop all the crooks out there but what if the purchaser or someone lists the name of the seller so we can all be aware of which people are doing these illegal acts.
 

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VIN tampering is a felony if I'm not mistaken. Call seller and see if he'll buy back or else call a lawyer and go after him.

Also on chevelles there's a supposed to be hidden vin behind the heater box on the firewall (not sure on what years). It was discussed on this site so you can search around.

David
 
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