[besserspat]

The car is a 71 RS camaro , the car has a Th400 now , I know its a good transmission but I WANT an overdrive for highway driving.

So my picks are :

A stout 200R4 ( it can be built for 1000 hp capacity) for 2200$


OR

I convert my car to manual with a TKO 600 (2.87 first , 0.67 5th)

A TKO 600 with all the parts needed for my swap is roughly 4000$

- Both offers good driveability
- The 200R4 is roughly half price and alot less work
- The TKO has a max capacity of 600 lbft or torque
- The TKO is less user friendly at the drag strip
- The TKO will be harder on parts

With my motor the torque stall Ill need is around 3000-3500
The car has 3.73 gears and will be running on 275-60-15.

I always had manual cars, I feel kinda bad having a camaro thats is considered as a "sports" car with an automatic.

But I certainly understand the limitations of the manual at the dragstip, although I am not looking for a Strip only car , in fact the car will be 90% street ,cruising, small trip and hunting down modern muscle.

Im investing alot of money in this car to make it look like original (era correct) and Im just scared to make a mistake with an automatic.

Can some guys who had TKO's and Autos chime in?

It took me forever to decide between a BBC and SBC since I always been an sbc /stick guy.

Can you tell that Im coming from the circle/road race business, where I spend 20 years racing small blocks and shifting 4 speeds...

But this one is a street car with big "cohones" maybe a 600 hp 468 will be a handfull on the street in manual?

Please guys let me know...
Cheers
Peter

 

[bdc1013]

I had a 700r in my chevelle. cruising its a decent transmission. When you want to have fun with all your buddies going on runs to a burger joint or the beach and you see how much fun everyone is having with there 4 speed 5 speed cars, man i couldnt wait to get rid of that thing.

Now with the tko 600 i've spent the best money i've ever spent on he car. It has been the single best upgrade by far. The transmission shifts great, it feels great, and its so much fun. Plus like you said whats a sports car or even a muscle car with an automatic?

the car is a whole new car with the tko. I have basically the same trans as a 200r and went to the tko and i have no regrets. I spent a little less than you're planning on spending but i got parts here and there for cheap and saved myself $750 bucks

 

[how69ss]

I've never run either of those two particular transmissions, but here are my thoughts on manual versus auto in general, from my own experience, and also my thoughts on the 200-4r from what I have studied.

If you decide to keep the auto, I'd just do a gear swap to a 3.31 or something close to that. With the tq you're gonna have, you don't need a real deep gear, and that would be pretty decent for cruising with a 28" tire or a little taller.

I only have 500 fwhp and a stick, and it's a handful on the street. For me, it would depend on if the car was going to see much track time. It doesn't sound like it is, so I would lean toward the manual. You can still hit the track now and then, but if you were bracket racing a lot, you'd want the auto just for the ease of going from street to strip and easier on parts and you can use drag radials.

I know that a quality 200-4R is $2,500, and there would be other costs too, shifter, driveshaft mods. That tko could be done cheaper, couldn't it? Is that price, including a brand new driveshaft, some other crossmember, etc., and bellhousing, clutch, linkage?


Jakeshoe sells the 200-4R and hopefully he'll jump on here and clarify how strong they actually are. I think it's more like 700 hp or so that a fully decked out 200-4R can handle. Of course depends on DRs versus slicks, weight of vehicle, too.

 

[besserspat]

Thats the point, this car will be used only once in a while since I hop on my motorcycles as soon as the sun comes out.

I still race a flat track harley xr 750 so shifting gears at mental speeds is my thing, So maybe the manual is more for me...

I always been a "no-compromise" kind of guy , I guess im getting softer with age and the fact that my girl cant drive manual may have something to do with.

 

[fasteddies68]

I have always had 4-speed and 5-speed cars but I did the Hot Rod power tour and had a tough time in some of the traffic tie-ups in L.A., Pomona, Chicago, and Detroit. I now and building a Chevelle with a 700R4. Maybe I am getting too old.

 

[besserspat]

I understand , getting stuck in traffic with a high powered stick shifted car is PITA, on my motorcycles I split lanes so traffic is never an issue .

I will probably use the camaro mostly on week ends and evenings to the local dragstrip or just for the fun of burning gas in a not very politically correct manner.

So driving through traffic or doing the Powertour are not on the menu for this Camaro.

If this camaro was a daily driver ( I live near downtown ), it would be 100% automatic with a 383 small block around 400 hp. It's a no brainer...

 

[cv67]

Put in what you enjoy driving and it will be happy with spending the money.

No need for a super low 1st gear with that much torque (3.00 or lower), think TKO has some gearing options. Maybe someone who knows more will pipe in.

All I can say is the best money I ever spent was ditching the T350 and dropping a 6 spd in, more to the rear wheels and completely changed the cars personality. Worth every dime!

 

[besserspat]

thanks, the TKO has a first gear of 2.87 they dont have any any numerically lower .

if I get one I am thinking of getting a liberty tko 600 with face plating , as Ive heard horror stories when shifting over 6k a WOT.

I am not relaly into powershifting and I always ease the throttle when shifting so maybe its overkill but I prefer to pay now , than taking the transmission out later on...

 

[how69ss]

thanks, the TKO has a first gear of 2.87 they dont have any any numerically lower .

if I get one I am thinking of getting a liberty tko 600 with face plating , as Ive heard horror stories when shifting over 6k a WOT.

.

CDN SS has a face plated TKO 600. I'd contact him and see how he likes it. He races quite a bit.

Yes, no need for anything lower than a 2.87. I'd do some calculations on the OD to see where your rpms will be at highway cruise speed, too.

 

[besserspat]

CDN SS has a face plated TKO 600. I'd contact him and see how he likes it. He races quite a bit.

Yes, no need for anything lower than a 2.87. I'd do some calculations on the OD to see where your rpms will be at highway cruise speed, too.

Thanks I will PM him for sure !

I know I dont need a deeper first gear , but the overall 1st gear ratio is a bit high for a big block combined to the 3,73 gears.

But hey its a fun car, not a minivan, so a little bit of rowing IS fun

cheers
Peter

 

[gibbons]

With my BB motor, the .64 OD is almost too low with 3.73 gears and 275/60-15 tires. At 55, it's too low, but 4th is too high. If I had it to do again, I would do the .82 OD.

If you get it, make sure you whack the stick to a about 6" above the nub on the transmission. THAT makes it fun to shift!

 

[besserspat]

With my BB motor, the .64 OD is almost too low with 3.73 gears and 275/60-15 tires. At 55, it's too low, but 4th is too high. If I had it to do again, I would do the .82 OD.

If you get it, make sure you whack the stick to a about 6" above the nub on the transmission. THAT makes it fun to shift!

I will definitely consider the .82 OD too, but around here nobody drives at 55 on the highway , the speed limit are 65 and no one respect it!

Using gear calculators with a .64 and 28" tires, I should be around 1900-2000 rpm at 70 mph . 65-75 mph is what you have to drive to keep up with the traffic on the highways around here.

I may also drop the tire size to 255-60-15 with Era correct wheels for driving around so it would bump the RPM at the same speeds.

I am curious to know about your motor, what kind of heads, cam, intake and carb you have ? maybe your set up is aimed to higher rpm hp and tq.

I have a big dodge ram thats probably weight close to 5000 pounds, with a tiny 360 ci with 215 000 miles on the clocks and puny 240 hp.

And this thing purrs at 1600 rpm pushing my 5000 pounds brick shaped truck at 65 mph.

I cant believe a stout 468 with roughly twice the TQ everywhere on the powerband cant keep a 3600 pounds car at 65 mph.

But I will really take your recommendation about the .82 od in consideration.

cheers
Peter

 

[69-CHVL]

Good thing your asking this now!

You have to be totally honest in terms of your driving habits. If you do ALOT of highway, go 3:73 with the .64. However, if you do mostly around town and fast backroads, you'll never be able to use 5th. So what will happen is that you will be bouncing back and forth between a screaming 4th gear, to a lugging 5th. This is b/c the TKO has a very steep OD ratio of .64. I currently have 3.90's, and 5th is just a little to tall for the backroads, but 4th screams. Highway its perfect. This is behind a ~650hp 509, probably around 600ftlbs. Although the cam is kinda large for low speed operation, and carb setup has alot to do with low speed action as well. Problem is, I never use the highway. So I have to deal with a lugging 5th gear, for really no reason. I thought I'd be on the highway all the time, turns out, I'm never on the highway!

If I had to do it all over again, I would either put 4.11's+ in the rear, or get the TKO with the .82OD. Again, its all about your TRUE intentions with the car.

 

[Guest]

A stout 200R4 ( it can be built for 1000 hp capacity) for 2200$

First,
As a performance transmission builder who specializes in the 200-4R I'll be the first one to tell you, no matter what you do, it is not capable of 1000 HP reliably.
~800 is the upper end IMO, and at that point I really start to not like the planetaries.
At 800 HP it REQUIRES every piece of billet made for one, and the parts cost alone is near $2200, not including labor, core, or even general rebuild parts, just the billet parts...

$450 for a forward drum
$500 for the output shaft
$300 for the input shaft
$300 for the overdrive carrier
$250 for the OD ring gear
$120 for the servo
$200 for the pan
$20 for the band pin
$30 for the boost valve

Add about $400 for general rebuild parts on top of this, $200 for core costs (trans and good valve body/governor).

See where the price is going on this deal...?

We're at $2800 and we haven't even got any labor, shipping, etc yet.

So although the 200-4R may work fine in your application, despite what some less than honest transmission builders would tell you, and a bunch of guys who have never rebuilt a transmission but believe everything they read in an advertisement, don't believe the 200-4R is capable of 1000 HP reliably. It's a dream.
Some guys would even tell you it can do it with "heat treated" stock parts

 

[besserspat]

Jake , I know you know what your'e talking about.

when I said "A stout 200R4 ( it can be built for 1000 hp capacity) for 2200$"

I really meant I was going to spend a maximum of 2200$ on a 200R4 (not including the torque and accessories).

I think a 200R4 can be built to handle with the power of a serious street 468 , for 2200$

My statement about the fact it can be built for up to 1000hp was simply to prevent long conversations about how come a 200R4 behind a 468 when there were so fragile in their early years of production.

So many people think the 200R4 is a crappy transmission thats is not worth putting time and money in.

I still think its a great transmission and If my camaro was a daily driver I would leave it automatic and swap the th400 for a 200r4 in heartbeat.

The 1000hp was not based on any experience, but I think Art Carr has "1000hp 200r4", this on his website...but the transmissions are rated at 750 hp + So I dont know how "correct" is it to say that a 200R4 handle 1000 hp, and to be honest I am not planning to put 1000hp in a street car anytime soon.

Thanks Jake for the correction.

As for the low OD ratio, I do plan to do a bit of highway , a good all around car.

On the 468 , its a dual plane , 850 DP holley (I may even go with spreadbores to help low rpms highway driving), vaccum distributor advance , and a flat tappet solid camshaft under [email protected] .050.

I think it will be a decent motor from 1500 to 6500.

I really appreciate your input guys, its great to be able to find people with similar set up giving you the heads up to prevent mistakes, that can be costly in the long run.

Cheers
Peter

 

[andrew T]

if you are still thinking of auto get a 4l80e

put in a manual VB so you have to shift, therefore making it feel manual but clutchless.

 

[Stokerboats]

Do the 200R4 you will like it alot. Better gear spread by far than a 700R4. I have one in my drive in place of a th350 and picked up 7mpg. Cruises at 2k rpm's.

 

[bdc1013]

With my BB motor, the .64 OD is almost too low with 3.73 gears and 275/60-15 tires. At 55, it's too low, but 4th is too high. If I had it to do again, I would do the .82 OD.

If you get it, make sure you whack the stick to a about 6" above the nub on the transmission. THAT makes it fun to shift!

x2

anyone have the .82 and wants the .64 that wants to swap trans?