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Discussion Starter #1
HELP!

I’m having a real tough time installing my Power Master starter on my car.

Here is what I have;

Lemons BBPT-610 headers (1.875 primaries)
Power Master 9540 mini starter
Milodon 30951 oil pan
Quick Time bell housing 6022 E-12

Dan Lemons instructions say to remove the starter, install header from the bottom. With the header in place but not bolted , re-install starter, then bltheader to the head.

Nope! There is no way to get the starter in. Tried the header half way in, higher, and lower but the starter will not squeeze between the frame, header, and bellhousing.

I’m sure it’s the Quicktime bellhousing that is screwing things up. The flange takes up quite a bit of space.

I thought about lifting the engine upon the passenger side but with the kick out sump on the oil pan, that will decrease space near the lower A arm bracket. Perhaps removing the motor mount and dropping the engine, I may pick up some space, maybe. Does anyone have this combo and can shed some wisdom my way?

thanks in advance.

Joe
 

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Joe,
I have everything on your list except my Lemons are 2 inch primaries. Yes the starter install is a bitch. Ive done the starter/ header install several times as I had ongoing leak problems with my new 496.
IIRC the following is what I had to do.
Fish the header up from the bottom and get it close to where it needs to be to bolt it in.
Without any of the bolts installed pull the header slighly away and then twist and turn the starter to get it in behind the header
Say a lot of words that that would have gotten your mouth washed out with soap 50 years ago.
Get the bolts installed for the starter which is a stunt in itself as if I recall the starter has to be away from the block due to oil pan clearance. Check for pinched wires before tightening down starter bolts. Ask me how I know to mention that.
Bolt header to block which takes two people. One underneath to move header around and one up top to putbolts in.
I did feed both headers in while I still had the engine an inch or two above the engine mounts. Then tied them out of the way before i went therest of the way with the engine. However they can be installed with the engine all the way on the mounts as I did it that way the first time I installed them. Both times they were a bitch to install. Also be sure to have the starter clocked as far away from the headers as possible. Otherwise you will burn up your wires. Again ask me how I know this.
 

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Joe, forgot to mention. If i remember correctly I had to feed the starter in from the front side rather than from the rear/bell housing side.
 

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1970 El Camino SS396, VortecPro 467, ATI TH400, Moser 12 bolt /TruTrac 3:42, Hedman headers
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Consider the late 90's truck starter, had similar issue with my BBC and Hedman Elite headers, stock starter too big to install, mini-starter too close to header and could not clock it because of frost plug boss in the way, the GM truck permanent magnet starter saved the day and less than $50.00.
 

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I think the starter Joe has is the one the Dan Lemons recommends. Trust me when I say Dan Lemons knows the header game inside and out.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Joe, forgot to mention. If i remember correctly I had to feed the starter in from the front side rather than from the rear/bell housing side.
Brad,

Thanks for posting! You have the QuickTime bell housing as well? I got the starter in from the front, by the rear of the cross member, while the header was nearly vertical. Bolted in the starter but could not get the header in place due to the after being in the way. Perhaps I need to try that again but not bolt the starter in. Have my son hold the starter in the vicinity while wrestle with the header from up above. My beautiful black ceramic coating is all chipped up now. Either that or lift the passenger side while attempting to feed the starter in from above.
Joe
 

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Yes I have the quicktime bell housing as well. I know the starter can be unbolted and bolted back in while the header has all eight bolts installed and tight. But the starter cannot be removed or placed into its little pocket while the header is bolted in place.
Yes all my satin black coating got scuffed up and I even had the headers wrapped with garbage bags the first time I installed them. By the second time I realized there was no sense in doing that.
Its been about six months since I did the last install but I think I got the starter in its pocket and then with the starter loose I put the header in place and started the most forward and most rearward header bolts. Of course that requires one person holding the loose starter and moving the header from the bottom at the same time and another person up top.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks Brad, I’ll try getting the starter in position while the header is maneuvered from above. I got the starter in and bolted so I hope with an extra set of hands I can get both in position and bolted in. I doubt there is much difference between my Chevelle and yours.
And I thought the driver side header sucked.

Are you able to get your Milodon oil pan plug out or is the block saver and bell housing in the way.

Joe
 

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I am able to remove the oil pan plug without any issue as well as the oil filter. I’ve been using a Wix. The one that’s a bit longer. One thing that is also a major pain is removing the bell housing and block saver while the engine is installed. Had to do that a couple times as well due to defective pressure plate and again for defective flywheel. But the headers and starter are worse.
 

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Consider the late 90's truck starter, had similar issue with my BBC and Hedman Elite headers, stock starter too big to install, mini-starter too close to header and could not clock it because of frost plug boss in the way, the GM truck permanent magnet starter saved the day and less than $50.00.
That’s what I used. The PMGR starter fits and works great even on hot restarts.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
All, no way, no how! Tried again for 2 hours today. There is no way that starter is going in with the header. It’s one or the other, but not both. Short of u bolting the driver side header, pulling the engine , bolting the starter in place then lowering it with both headers in the bay, there is no way to get the starter in with the header staged. No way!

I’ll wait to hear what Dan Lemons says but I’m pretty much sure I’m pulling the trans, clutch, flywheel and bell housing off.

at this point I’m real curious to see if the damn starter will fit in the damn header pocket!
Joe
 

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Joe,
Just thought I’d mention a couple things. I still have the original numbers 396 in my garage. So I was able to mock up my passenger side header and starter on the 396. I did that mostly to see where I needed to clock the starter. The 396 has stock cast iron heads and the 496 has Brodix heads but they are close enough for starter clocking. Also I’d call Dan and see if he can help. The next post has pics of my starter and Lemon headers. Did you see these already?
 

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E11B660A-C569-4748-A145-6CC1EE60EFE8.jpeg
 

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The pics need turned 90 degrees to be seen in the correct orientation. Do you have the starter clocked up as high as it will go without hitting the block? As you can
See in the pics it is tight around the starter.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Brad, Holy crap, the headers are real close to the starter, arent they? How close is the positive cable? I see you have it wrapped. What did you use?
About clocking, I got it close, mounted it, then realized I needed to back off a little. I’m not far from where the reference markers are. The good thing about pulling the trans, I can get an exact
clock. Here’s the thing, while I’ll move the solenoid away from the header, the connections actually get closer.
I plan on using the MADD external solenoid so, all I’ll have is the battery cable.

I’m waiting to hear back from Dan but I don’t know what magic he’d be able to loan me. I tried every combination. The higher I lifted the engine, the less room I had. I was thinking of pulling the passenger side motor mount, and dropping the motor a few inches. I ran out of time, I‘m smoking a few racks of St. Louis ribs for Labor Day so I had to wrap things up.

I’ve pretty much resigned myself to bench pressing that LGT700. Pre pandemic, no sweat. Gyms have been closed for 5+ months. Not sure how good my bench press is now. I should be good for at least a half dozen reps. Still not looking forward to it. While I’m there, I’m going to relieve a bit of flange at the drain. Not sure I can get my oil plug out. Perhaps cut the lower portion of the block saver off as well and make it like an inspection cover.

Joe
 

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Joe,
I just installed the MADD system last winter after I caught my wires at the starter on fire. Good thing I was paying attetion or it could have gone bad. Actually crawled underneath and blew the fire out with my breath. That is when i clocked starter away as far as possible. They are still close but they were so close before that I couldnt take the nut off he larger stud without unbolting the starter.The big wire coming down from the Ford solenoid is wrappen with one inch header wrap. You will still have a smaller wire coming from a relay to the starter solenoid.
Almost forgot for the Legend transmission I use a qwik Lift. Many times when I had a Muncie I removed and installed it with my car on railroad ties and tried using a modified floor jack. Now my car is on the qwik lift and I have a cheap Harbor Freight trans jack. Best tip I can give for that is get four bolts that fit into qwik time threads (for trans mounting) and cut the heads off. Use those bolts to guide trans into clutch/pressure plate and pilot bushing. Once trans is seating remove the six inch bolts and thread in regular bolts.
Also I had to cut a quarter moon shaped piece out of both the qwik time and the block saver to make room for the clutch rod from the fork to the z bar.
 
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