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Discussion Starter #1
60 Minutes is broadcasting a segment tonight on American’s passion with older cars. All I saw was a teaser this morning seeing a Ford Mustang having a collision and seeing the dummy's head whiplashing. I think the emphasis on the show maybe something about safety in older American cars. It may be a show that we all want to watch.

Since the show is not live, I believe it will be broadcast at 9:00 PM Eastern and then re-broadcast at 9:00 PM Pacific. I suggest you check your local listing to make sure.



[This message has been edited by William Roche (edited 08-17-99).]
 

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Thanx. I'll check it out! No matter what they say about older cars, I'd rather have a solid steel frame under me than these cheap supposedly "reinforced" body panels of most of today's cars.

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Jeremy J. Bennett
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Actually, it's not on classic cars so much as it's on how the Mustang is a virtual deathtrap just waiting to fry the unsuspecting occupants to a crisp, thereby dashing all hopes of future plans and dreams.......

Ok, so maybe it's not quite that dramatic, but the idea is close. For more info, check out the following web site:

http://www.cbs.com/flat/story_155790.html

Kurt, safe and secure in 3800 lbs of Chevy Steel.

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I saw the show last night. My wife no longer wants one of those cute mobile molotovs. Wasn't this the same company that made the pinto?

The drop in tank was probably a great idea for manufacturing. But Ford's reasoning for not recalling the car once the flaw was discovered is a just plain irresponsible. Iacocca's attitude really sucked too. sort of "If you don't like the possibility of being fried, get another car." Thanks for your concern Lee. Concern does not equal responsibility. Ooops, off the soap box.
kevin d
 

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I saw the show last night.

I was sort of beleiving Mr. Ioccocca until they mentioned the whate house tapinge of him stating that "Safety is killing the auto industry".

Lee also states he did not know about the gas tank problem.
BullS**T!!
As engineering manager, it's my job to review designs, assemblys and tests.
Bottom Line. --------->He knew about it.
Oh, I guess he never even saw the test tape 301 showing fuel soaking rear passengers in the rear end collision.
The real shame is the people that got fried or even killed due the ignorance of people in high positions.
I know the sixties didn't emphasize safety as much as today, BUT DO WE NEED TO EMPHASIZE COMMON SENSE ALSO?

Brian
(PS, I always wanted a 69-70 Mach 1, but it doesn't seem worth the risk)

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People who drive Mustangs are going to die! My dad wants a 69 Mach1 also, but in the defense of Mustang(I know it's a Ford, but it's still a classic)they do have things that can be done as to prevent this. My neighbor took his Mustang in for this sort of thing and it is fine now. And safety is a BIG issue especially with older cars today. My 67 does not have a shoulder belt, but when the Velle gets back on the road I WILL install them. They say that wearing a lap belt only is more dangerous than not wearing anything at all! That show taught me a very good lesson.

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Jay W.
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OK I'll admit that I can be an ice-hole and am pretty much a hard nosed SOB. With that preface out of the way, and hopefully diffusing any hate email, I am sick and tired of our safety conscious " the government will save you" mentality. I'm not condoning Iaccocca or ay other car exec's malfeasance, but really. I can think of 50,000 lives the government pretty much pissed away right off the cuff.

It seems simply that we are beginning to rely on others more for our personal security and safety than on ourselves. that's BS. Just for a second, think that one through and follow the trend. I don't like where it leads. Brian, you alluded to it in your comment. Will 60 Minutes teach me common sense? No friggin' way, the media and the government have contributed to the erosion of self reliance and common sense in a huge way. .

Oh, and I don't respect CBS. They wouldn't know what unbiased was if it came up and bit them in the ...

So much for my soapbox. I just think somebody ought to speak out and say, don't believe everything you see on TV and rely on your own wits, intelligence, and acumen to carry you through the day.

STAY ALERT. STAY ALIVE.

[This message has been edited by Gene Chas (edited 08-18-99).]
 

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I can honestly say I have never heard up untill last night of this happening.

I think the news blows everything out of proportion. You have to think of the number of these cars that were made over the 7-8 years they used the drop in tanks. And the number on the road today. Seems I can't turn around with out seeing one. Its the same with small aircraft there are many more little single engine aircraft out there than large commercial aircraft so therefor the number of accidents with the small aircraft will be much much larger than that of commercial airlines. But on the news they make it sound as though all small aircraft could suddenly fall out of the sky because the are piloted by incopitant idiots. I think it is much the same case here. I have to say though the drop in tank isn't the greatest idea I have ever seen.

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JT
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Gene, very well put my fellow 'Chevelle Freak'! It is truly amazing what decisions corporate America will make...all in the name of PROFIT and the chase of the almight do$$ar.

"Saving lives will cost our bottom line too much - let the glitch ride for now." How do some of these executive decision makers sleep at night, or do they? Makes me wonder.

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'70 Malibu - 383 'Fog Fed' Stroker! Gold Member #39
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Gene, you are right. Common sense is an uncommon virtue. But we no longer need to use common sense. Order hot coffee, put it between your legs and drive off. When it spills and causes the inevitable burns, just sue. Some idiots (a Jury) will frown on the sheer audacity of a company to actually sell hot coffee that is hot and award some tremendous amount of money. Kind of like being paid for being stupid. The dumber you are, the more money you get. Meanwhile, Big Macs, insurance premiums etc all go through the roof. If you're a lawyer, you don't want me sitting on the jury for your idiot client!
Damn! Somebody knock me off the soap box so I can sue you!
kevin d
 

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I'am not going to get into this one except to say that "Natural Selection works if given the chance."
Harley
 

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My two cents;

Lee Iaccocia (sp) is lieing!

I think it's neglegent on Ford's part that over the years listed, 64 through 70, the problem wasn't addressed during production.

I wasn't impressed on how the show put the blame on Ford (unjustified or not) and then only hinted on the fact that there was "retrofitable" fix! There was only two small clips of the installation of "isolation panels" being added. So, should 60 minutes bear responsability for not dispersing information that may save lives? They KNOW that there is a problem and didn't make available a list of places where this retrofit can be implemented. They know where it can be done due to having film footage of the work.

The film footage (test 301, done by Ford) showing the drivers head getting sprayed with gasoline REALLY got to me!! It looked like the car in the test was a 65, and I'd like to know why latter year cars were not changed.

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Wes. Vann
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I too saw the show last night. I had not known that "America's favorite Pony" had gas tanks like that! I was shocked to say the least. I've never been in an original Mustang, and now I don't know if I'd want to go for a ride in one.

Let's forget all the engineering and the corporate s.o.b.'s for a minute. I was thinking to myself last night after watching the show. If I was around back then (let's just pretend I was a Ford enthusiast) would I buy a car where you could physically see the top of the gas tank in the trunk?

HELL NO! I don't care how "cute" or popular these cars were. Even if Chevy had done this I would have been very edgy. Imagine slamming luggage on top of a piece of steel that separates trunk from gasoline. Not a good idea. Gee, I'm not even an engineer.

I think common sense would come into play as well. Not to lay the blame on owners but still, the sight of a drop in tank would have left me running.

My $.02.

Joe
 

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Bravo Gene! I find it funny that the same people who cry out for the government to provide for their protection are the same people you see tearing down the freeways at 90 MPH, weaving from lane to lane, shaking their fists and cursing you for driving the posted speed limit. (I'd bet a paycheck on it.) Then when they get mangled in an accident, they have the audacity to sue the manufacturer for building an "unsafe" car that won't protect them when they drive like a##holes. (Or their survivors file suit.) Sure, the manufacturer does have an obligation to build a car that will withstand damage in a variety of foreseeable accident situations. But people have to understand that due to the laws of physics, metal and plastic automobiles have their limits. People have to assume responsibilty for their own actions if they are to expect a manufacturer to accept responsibility for an obvious design defect such as the one on the Mustang.
 

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Harley, I'm with you on that statement 100%, but for two things. Our socially responsive government won't allow natural selection to occur, and 2.) until then we all bear the financial responsibility for those folks who never learned how to wipe their a**, insurance premiums, car prices, and especially taxes will continue to go up. I don't mind paying taxes to make sure my water is good, or to buy the best damn equipment for our men and women in uniform, but it troubles me to no end that part of my fed tax dollars go to support part of the population which I know causes apathy, idiocy ( cause they don't need to think for themselves ) and low self esteem.

Few things better for a "man's" soul and self worth than a honest days work.

And JT, a bud of mine is a pilot. Now I'd like to think I still have some physical courage, but so much can go wrong in those things that I finally told him I would go up again unless I can bring a chute and pack it myself. STAY ALERT. STAY ALIVE.

We used to have these bumper stickers on our desk at the mil post, for grins BTW, " I'm from the government, I'm here to help you".

Naw, just get the hell out of my way please!

But Mr. Roche, I apologize, I digress.

[This message has been edited by Gene Chas (edited 08-19-99).]
 

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Gene, Personally I feel much more comfortable flying in the small aircraft such as the ones my dad flies. I think the reason is that I have a set of controls infront of me so if I need to I can use them. Oh BTW my dad is getting a parachute some time soon but thats so he can start doing aerobatics agian
.

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JT
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All the manufactures pull this stuff - how about Chevy and their pick-ups with the gas tanks mounted on the sides outside the frame. TV had a good time exposing that one too. GM was supposed to do some sort of compensation to owners - yeah, right! My brother-in-law took his truck to Chevy and they said as compensation he could get $1000 trade-in on a new truck. Wow, I'm dazzled! Granted, manufacture's should lower the greed factor, but these are 30+ year old cars and complied with the requirements of the time.

Don't forget about the Ford Maverick - same tank installation - no big deal on those and there are still a lot of them on the road.

And then there was the big expose' on three-wheelers. What killers they were. I rode them for years - wore safety equipment and the same went for my kids and we survived. That was a case of responsibility for your own decisions - not the manufacture's. That's the problem today - everyone wants to protect us from ourselves, it's like we aren't smart enough to make our own decisions. Someday society will all be in these safe little cubicles waiting for someone to tell them what to next.

Sorry, I get carried away - this is one of the subjects that really pushes my button.
 

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I wonder what all the Mustang fanatics think about the "Father" of their beloved rustangs telling them they should throw them away? LOL
 
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