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Discussion Starter #22
IMO bigger is not always better. 427 and 454 are great engines for what OP wants. But with his budget I would regear, higher stall and suspension work. At 10.99 seconds you are required aftermarket axles and no c-clips. You will also need a role cage and transmission protection. On his budget this might not be possible.
Rear end doesn’t have C-clips. It’s an Olds 8.5 from a ‘75 442. Never thought about axles, I wonder if tech will with normal street tires?

I realize this is heading toward a one or two pass car and then the boot, but I’m OK with it. I really enjoy driving around and to car shows. Something fun about ugliest working wreck getting attention from them ‘Vette owners.

I’ll cross the roll cage bridge just before paint (it’s been 22 years and haven’t put a nice paint job on it yet). ?

I might be best with 427 on spray or 454, it’s hard to say as I’d expect the AFR 290 to cover a lot of short comings. I do like the idea of 3.08 gears and torquing through with a 496 though.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Mike, I never said you were nuts!

I think you need to be in the 1.50's or lower to hit the 10's.
The times in my sig were with a 1.45 60'
No worries.

I don’t know if 1.4s are possible on pure street tires but I’m sure 1.5s are, it’s only a matter of finding them.
 

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Discussion Starter #24

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
Right now, I’m thinking:

427 = 3.73 gear
454 = 3.42 gear
496 = 3.23 gear

This is irrespective of power curve and has more to do with torque production and walking the line on traction out of the bottom. Obviously, the larger the cam the more likely I’ll need more a than 3000 stall.

I do have a decent video of a nice simple 427 running at the track in a ‘72 Nova. He had rectangular port heads and an old L88 cam, spraying it as well. He ran a brake with 3.70 gears and sticky tires.
 

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Mike, I never said you were nuts!

I think you need to be in the 1.50's or lower to hit the 10's.
The times in my sig were with a 1.45 60'
A good low 11 sec car can go 1.41 60s
1320/110=12.0
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Mike, I never said you were nuts!

I think you need to be in the 1.50's or lower to hit the 10's.
The times in my sig were with a 1.45 60'
A good low 11 sec car can go 1.41 60s
1320/110=12.0
I’m certainly looking to hit 130 in the quarter, the ET won’t match the mph but I’ll try to be somewhere in the 10s.
 

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Is there a reason against running something like an et street s/s? They drive great on the street/ highway, in the rain etc.....they worked great on mine ran them a couple years. Hardly need to do a burnout at all with them.

I can understand if you just prefer what you have, it's working whatever you are doing.
 

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A good low 11 sec car can go 1.41 60s
1320/110=12.0
Was the 110 from mike et in his sig?
Shouldn't that be 120 mph?
1320/120 = 11.0
How does the 1.41 figure into that?
Where did that come from?
 

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To lay the groundwork, I have a specific ET in mind, albeit on pure street tires. That goal is mid-10 seconds in the 1/4 mile. I would estimate that I can get most of the way there with a pump gas friendly 454 or 496 and spray the rest.

I'm running an '81 Malibu wagon, which has ran a best of 11.47 @117, subscribing to the pure street tires and spraying philosophy above. To give an idea of available traction in the wagon, best 60' was 1.60 on 100 shot. Typical engine 60' was in the 1.70 range. 3800 lbs with me in the car, 4.10 gear, 3000 stall leaving off the foot brake at 1200 rpm.

At this point, I'm committed to swapping the 406 for something heavier which should push my wagon to the goal. I'm leery of building a torque monster which has no hope for traction on street tires so, while I like the idea of the 496, I also like the idea of a 454 or even a 427.

I've picked up some used parts I have a start on the project...AFR 290 heads, a Vic Jr., a large Straub roller cam (S/N T10625, CHB 288/292-08R, 256/259 @ 0.050", .643"/.634" lift), and a couple of 454 engines:

The first engine has Wiseco forged +10cc pistons, Scat Pro Stock I-beam rods, Scat nodular iron 4.0" stroke crank with mildly spun main and rod bearings (couple of rods are discolored from heat). To top it off, the front main cap bolt hole has a helicoil which is not flush in the block. Not sure if it is an issue (this is one of the better looking main bearings).

The second engine is an all original mid-80s peanut port truck engine.

Knowing I want to invest as little further into this project as absolutely possible, do you guys have any thoughts?

I've had strange ideas of dropping the AFR heads/Vic Jr on the stock 454 to see what happens. I'd consider dropping in the Straub cam as well but I have a feeling the stock pistons wouldn't play nicely with the valves.

Sorry for the long second post but that's how I tend to be :)

Let's hear your ideas.
real world experience with limited tuning.
in a 9.9 comp 489 with afr265s, single plane intake, hyd roller 252/258 .612" lift, 1050 cfm carb, that made 585hp/590lb ft. the car went 11.23 at 119 at 4500' DA in Kearney, Ne. 3500 lb Car with driver, 3.73 gear 3600 converter
I spun a rod bearing leaving Colorado during rmrw 2016 and swapped to a gen vi 454, flat tops short block. installed the same top end but since it was the side of the road and all gaskets and misc were delivered I have rect port intake gaskets. I addressed some vacuum leaks and misc. but never jetted down or touched the timing again after getting it to run. the car went 12.43 @ 110 in 3200' da when we were back in Kearney. this wasn't street racing though. less intake, carb and cam would have put me in your ball park pretty easy at a lower altitude. the heads are capable of a lot and 290s even more if paired properly.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Is there a reason against running something like an et street s/s? They drive great on the street/ highway, in the rain etc.....they worked great on mine ran them a couple years. Hardly need to do a burnout at all with them.

I can understand if you just prefer what you have, it's working whatever you are doing.
Can’t really say I have anything against street slicks. For me, it comes down to expectation and novelty. When you are in the staging lanes and walk by a car with normal DOT tires and full exhaust, there’s a certain expectation, a performance ceiling if you will. The expectation varies depending on imagination and experience. I particularly like to challenge one’s imagination and experience regarding performance limits one places on tire selection - it’s my thing.

Similarly, I’m also thrilled when others challenge my expectation. Flat hoods, bench seats, no gauges, and sneaky fast ETs make me smile. While I won’t capture all these things, I do hope to challenge their expectations.

Even when I went to the track, I didn’t go to the track often - mostly to Super Chevy Shows, Street Nationals, etc. Even with my limited experience, I had my share of success bracket racing.

We all have a thing, my thing is a little different. I believe we share the same goal; to go quicker than we did yesterday, even though going quicker than we did yesterday is not much of an advantage bracket racing. We seek the thrill of hunting a lower ET.
 
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Discussion Starter #34
real world experience with limited tuning.
in a 9.9 comp 489 with afr265s, single plane intake, hyd roller 252/258 .612" lift, 1050 cfm carb, that made 585hp/590lb ft. the car went 11.23 at 119 at 4500' DA in Kearney, Ne. 3500 lb Car with driver, 3.73 gear 3600 converter
I spun a rod bearing leaving Colorado during rmrw 2016 and swapped to a gen vi 454, flat tops short block. installed the same top end but since it was the side of the road and all gaskets and misc were delivered I have rect port intake gaskets. I addressed some vacuum leaks and misc. but never jetted down or touched the timing again after getting it to run. the car went 12.43 @ 110 in 3200' da when we were back in Kearney. this wasn't street racing though. less intake, carb and cam would have put me in your ball park pretty easy at a lower altitude. the heads are capable of a lot and 290s even more if paired properly.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m down around 1100 DA so as you say, I should be close to my goal with a 4.25” stroke 454.

I’m surprised you couldn’t get away with less gear with the 489, but that’s probably related to the cam size.

What cam did you use on the Gen VI or did you simply drop the AFR 265 on a stock cam?

Your roller sounds similar to my cam, which I think is a little large for my tastes but I think I’ll run it to confirm.

Were you able to trace back the cause of the spun rod bearing?

Thanks again.
 

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Can’t really say I have anything against street slicks. For me, it comes down to expectation and novelty. When you are in the staging lanes and walk by a car with normal DOT tires and full exhaust, there’s a certain expectation, a performance ceiling if you will. The expectation varies depending on imagination and experience. I particularly like to challenge one’s imagination and experience regarding performance limits one places on tire selection - it’s my thing.

I get this!
I got a lot of looks in the staging lanes with the bench seat full interior all steel/glass and column shifted th350 and a dirt bike helmet on the seat.
Kept the hood closed while waiting.
1st pass EVER with the 406 went a 10.78 lifting and the 2nd pass I kept in it and it stalled at probably the 1200' mark and went a .69.
On my way back to the pits a guy ran up to me and asked "what's in that thing?"
I said with a smile, " oh this? a 307" :D :thumbsup:
 

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Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m down around 1100 DA so as you say, I should be close to my goal with a 4.25” stroke 454.

I’m surprised you couldn’t get away with less gear with the 489, but that’s probably related to the cam size.

What cam did you use on the Gen VI or did you simply drop the AFR 265 on a stock cam?

Your roller sounds similar to my cam, which I think is a little large for my tastes but I think I’ll run it to confirm.

Were you able to trace back the cause of the spun rod bearing?

Thanks again.
the 454 short block in my case had no cam. I used my cam which was way too big IMO for less than 8.5:1 compression.
The port shape of the intake was not a great match for the "roval" shape AFR head. In 489 form the peak hp was at 5900 rpm. If you talk to someone like Tony Mamo who used to work for AFR he kind of changed his tune about porting intakes for roval. he used to say not a lot of time ($), now he is saying it's extensive porting.
I run a 3.25 gear now. I was running a 12 bolt with 4 series carrier. I had a 3.73 gear for a 4 series carrier and that was all I could run with at the time.

I raced it at two tracks and drove that thing 1100 miles all the way home since I didn't trailer from STL Mo to Kearney Ne.

I noticed I had 0 oil pressure at the big end of a race at Pueblo's track. I shut it down,costed to the time slip booth, and was towed to the pits. I checked the oil and fired it back up. pressure was back up and oil level was fine. I drove back to the hotel and the next morning about an hr from the hotel before oil pressure started going down 10 psi at cruise rpm.

 

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Discussion Starter #37
I get this!
I got a lot of looks in the staging lanes with the bench seat full interior all steel/glass and column shifted th350 and a dirt bike helmet on the seat.
Kept the hood closed while waiting.
1st pass EVER with the 406 went a 10.78 lifting and the 2nd pass I kept in it and it stalled at probably the 1200' mark and went a .69.
On my way back to the pits a guy ran up to me and asked "what's in that thing?"
I said with a smile, " oh this? a 307" <img src="http://www.chevelles.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="http://www.chevelles.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Thumbsup" class="inlineimg" />
You get it.

One of the coolest cars I’ve seen at the track was a ‘63 Valiant which ran 12.0 but ran 14” black wall tires on baby moon hubcap wheels. It appeared to have small exhaust under bumper (very quiet), full stock interior with push button automatic. He never opened that flat hood.
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
the 454 short block in my case had no cam. I used my cam which was way too big IMO for less than 8.5:1 compression.
The port shape of the intake was not a great match for the "roval" shape AFR head. In 489 form the peak hp was at 5900 rpm. If you talk to someone like Tony Mamo who used to work for AFR he kind of changed his tune about porting intakes for roval. he used to say not a lot of time ($), now he is saying it's extensive porting.
Are you saying your roller cam fit the valve reliefs in the stock 454 pistons?

I run a 3.25 gear now. I was running a 12 bolt with 4 series carrier. I had a 3.73 gear for a 4 series carrier and that was all I could run with at the time.
Are you running the 489 again or the 454? How are your times these days?


I raced it at two tracks and drove that thing 1100 miles all the way home since I didn't trailer from STL Mo to Kearney Ne.

I noticed I had 0 oil pressure at the big end of a race at Pueblo's track. I shut it down,costed to the time slip booth, and was towed to the pits. I checked the oil and fired it back up. pressure was back up and oil level was fine. I drove back to the hotel and the next morning about an hr from the hotel before oil pressure started going down 10 psi at cruise rpm.

That’s an awesome story.
 
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