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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wanted to get some feedback from you guys. I am meeting with the builder tomorrow to discuss my project and I have been doing a lot of net research... Well, once I started looking into the parts I "NEED" for my power goals, I quickly realized that my budget will quickly get smoked and in the essence of being cost effective, I thought I would run these scenarios by you...

GOAL
550-575 crank hp, 3500lb car in the high 10s

Shortblock (still in planning stages)
Dart Little M
Callies Dragon Slayer 4.00", 350 mains
Callies Compstar 6.0 rods
Mahle coated 4.125" pistons(or therebouts of... 427")
HYD Roller, (specs to be decided)

Here is the conundrum....the heads. I know I am using AFRs, its just WHICH ones...they both have pros and cons.

My preference is to use the Competition ported 227s, Ported Super Victor or Motown intake. The problem is the 60/40 valve spacing requires shaft mounted rockers(which I would like to have) but when you tally all this stuff up, it blows my budget by a lengthy stretch..Now I know speed ain't cheap but... $13k carb to pan is a little more then I had planned on

So I called AFR and talked to a Rep, told him what I wanted and what I was using, he recommended that for the best bang for the buck, to stick with the Race Ready (ie. standard) 210s with a spring upgrade, a box stock Super Victor intake and call it good. He mentioned that even stepping up to the Comp. ported 227s would likely be only a 10hp gain from the standard 210s on my size motor with a hyd cam and staying under 7000 rpms, he also said that port matching the intake would likely only net me another 5-8hp for the tune of $400....He mentioned any additional air flow is good and will gain power, but the cost effectiveness of some these choices just might not be worth it on my motor. I appreciated his honesty and now I'm stumped.... I don't want to "cheap out" on this stuff and then if the motor makes 530hp I'd be soooo freakin pissed....But I can save about $1500-1800 by sticking with the standard 210s and traditional roller rockers and box stock Super Victor or Motown.

Or I could spend the extra $500 and at least get the Comp. ported 210s, they are about 15 cfm more air flow, but probably less then 10hp gain...:confused:

I'm really trying to get my engine cost down to $11k out the door, dyno'd/tuned but.... its getting tuff...

That Shafiroff 540 is looking better and better...:noway:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
With $11k invested, whats another couple grand for the best parts? Here is another option for you.

http://www.smedingperformance.com/chevy/index.html

They are local to me but ship everywhere and have been all over the magazines in the last few years. One of the members here has a 70 malibu with their 427sbc and is pretty happy with it.

Well...mainly because at the same time I am also doing a $2500 200R4 upgrade, as well as $1500 worth of exhaust(Super comps, custom mandrel bent 3" in a Vette) as well as Vintage AC and rebuilding all the steering components, 3" steel drive shaft, aftermarket hood etc...... I have about $16k to spend on EVERYTHING... $13k on the motor doesn't leave me with much left.... Just looking to maximize my HP per $.

Thanks for the link. That looks like a pretty decent build but I would question its output with a stock Victor Jr and box stock holley 750...:confused:

I could do the 595hp Shafiroff 434" for about $11,500 carb to pan but....I think it would be a crap shoot as to what I am really getting. Thats why I am sticking with the local builder.
 

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I can`t validate any of their claims but I do see their name around alot. I think anything with Shafiroff`s name on it would have quality parts in it.
 

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at your power level you're probably getting at least 1.5HP/CFM, your 15 CFM is more like 22-25HP.

Why are you doing a hydraulic cam?
 

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I did what your doing about a year and a half ago. I bought the 227's unported and i'm still using my old victor jr intake with a 2" spacer. My motor comes in at 9.48 to 1 with the .027 head gaskets but i'm using 5.85 rods. Running through the full length exhaust with 373 gears and a 3500 stall in a 3700 lb car and including driver my car ran a 10.87 in some really good air. I use another all steel hood with a hood scoop. I went to the strip friday before last without the hood scoop and the aircleaner on in crappy air and went 11.40's. I only run premium gas and the tank happened to be full that night.
 

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When i called AFR they recomended the 227's. I think it's all in who you talk to but i'm a firm believer in " better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it". I run the m/t drag radials with a turbo 400. the car had 1.52 short times when it ran the 10's. I also amd using a solid roller cam from comp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
at your power level you're probably getting at least 1.5HP/CFM, your 15 CFM is more like 22-25HP.

Why are you doing a hydraulic cam?

My reasoning for going hyd roller is I just don't want to risk roller lifter failure that seems so common in solid rollers....That and I just don't want to mess with checking/adjusting valves, killing valve springs with heavy ass seat pressure etc....

For me, the car will be 95% cruiser, it will have AC, power steering etc...I will hit the local streets, the drag strip, and even take some trips in the car. I figured a correctly sized hyd roller should make 550-575hp and require little maintenance and be a lot more reliable in the long run.

I think you may be correct though on the HP difference with the bigger heads....I think at a MINIMUM I should go with the Competition ported 210s....I would do the 227s in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the shaft rockers etc..... I am still debating the whole thing...Hopefully the engine builder will have some good input.
 

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I will be very curious what the 210's will do. You read so much about Not going to big with everything from heads to cams and so forth. I feel that it will be a very doable project with the 210's and i also agree that if your going 210 then go ahead and get the better porting. What compression are you planning?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I did what your doing about a year and a half ago. I bought the 227's unported and i'm still using my old victor jr intake with a 2" spacer. My motor comes in at 9.48 to 1 with the .027 head gaskets but i'm using 5.85 rods. Running through the full length exhaust with 373 gears and a 3500 stall in a 3700 lb car and including driver my car ran a 10.87 in some really good air. I use another all steel hood with a hood scoop. I went to the strip friday before last without the hood scoop and the aircleaner on in crappy air and went 11.40's. I only run premium gas and the tank happened to be full that night.

Thanks for the info Mike...Did you run the shaft rockers? I to believe the same thing, better over then under....Gives me room to upgrade if I buy the bigger heads now. Eventually if I rebuild it bigger or move up to a solid roller, at least the heads will support it... Right now everything is up for debate....Hell I would even go solid if I knew I would get a set that would fail out on a highway trip somewhere.

My other option would be to go ahead and sink the money in the motor and get the Comp 227s, shaft mount rockers, ported Motown intake, go for broke on it.... Then just rebuild my Th400, run a tight 10" converter and sh*t can my idea for going to a 200R4. The 200R4 is gonna cost me about $2800.... I can keep my TH400, rebuild it and get a converter for about $1300 and save $1500.... drive it like that for a while and maybe next year go to a 200R4 when I get more money....thats a pretty good idea... I just hate the fact the Th400 kills so much power, not to mention the converter will never lock up and probably kill the mph.
 

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Yeah, i went for broke with the jesel shaft rockers. I certainly didn't want to hurt my new heads. I think what ever you decide, once you get that small block together with ANY good set of heads, you'll be more than satisfied with the output. Even a badly built sb 400 will run great! I will say one thing though, If i knew then that i would have spent all of that money i would have looked at a big block crate motor a whole lot closer.
 

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I'd use the 227's. I have the competition port 227's on my 427 and it makes decent power -- probably 125 more than your 550 HP goal. It is nearly impossible to put too big of a 23* head on a SBC 427.

You do not need shaft rockers, there are some conventional rockers that will work fine. Yella Terra ($680 a set) are what is on my 427 SBC and they work great. I hear Probe has a low cost shaft setup that is good too.
 

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Yeah, i went for broke with the jesel shaft rockers. I certainly didn't want to hurt my new heads. I think what ever you decide, once you get that small block together with ANY good set of heads, you'll be more than satisfied with the output. Even a badly built sb 400 will run great! I will say one thing though, If i knew then that i would have spent all of that money i would have looked at a big block crate motor a whole lot closer.
x2..A VORTECPRO BBC from Mark. 650 HP, 686 POUNDS OF TORQUE all for under 7 grand.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/454-505-650HP-BIG-BLOCK-CHEVY_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3911Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem4148d45271QQitemZ280394748529QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Mark aka VORTECPRO is a member here at TC. Never heard a bad thing about his motors.
One of many happy customers -> http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260236&highlight=marks+dyno
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Mikey69

I have been thinking long and hard about one of Vortecpro's motors....believe me....hp per $, you can't beat it.....My only problem is the fact that I didn't see it dyno, nor run in a car. If I KNEW for a fact I could drop that motor in my 3500lb car and run mid 10s with it, I would order one tomorrow....
 

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http://www.smedingperformance.com/chevy/index.html

They are local to me but ship everywhere and have been all over the magazines in the last few years. One of the members here has a 70 malibu with their 427sbc and is pretty happy with it.
427 Mighty Mouse
540 Horsepower
550 Ft. Lbs of Torque
$9,995 As shown including
dyno testing and tuning


That looks like a pretty decent build but I would question its output with a stock Victor Jr and box stock holley 750...

I could do the 595hp Shafiroff 434" for about $11,500 carb to pan but....I think it would be a crap shoot as to what I am really getting. Thats why I am sticking with the local builder.

...My only problem is the fact that I didn't see it dyno, nor run in a car. If I KNEW for a fact I could drop that motor in my 3500lb car and run mid 10s with it, I would order one tomorrow....
your "GOAL" is 550-575HP, but HP is just a number... what does your car NEED to run in the 10's?

I understand being a little sceptical, but some of these places have good reputations. Different dynos can have different numbers, so even if you are local, how are you sure your getting what you pay for? And what IF your local guy builds it, and it doesn't make the numbers you want? can you just walk away?

Most of these bigger shops have their reputation, and the experience. Usually, their "crates" make in excess of the advertised amount, just to make sure... They wouldn't want the word to get out that they were fudging HP numbers higher...

Just curious, IF your local builder (have you spoken with some local shops?) knows what it will take, what's his recommendation? Just because they have a dyno, doesn't mean they will build the best HP...
 

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Mikey69

I have been thinking long and hard about one of Vortecpro's motors....believe me....hp per $, you can't beat it.....My only problem is the fact that I didn't see it dyno, nor run in a car. If I KNEW for a fact I could drop that motor in my 3500lb car and run mid 10s with it, I would order one tomorrow....
Just do a search. There are many on this board using one of Marks motors. Some have even posted dyno sheets. Even the Green Hot Dog is running one of Marks short blocks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Just do a search. There are many on this board using one of Marks motors. Some have even posted dyno sheets. Even the Green Hot Dog is running one of Marks short blocks.

I talked to Mark this morning in regards to my project. I am still thinking everything out but it looks like I am going to be using one of his motors. He will do a custom "tailored for my needs" 496". Mild compression, hyd roller, something that will still make in the 640s but handle lots of driving, AC, some strip action etc...a good cruiser motor. I am still weighing out the options but the money I save by using a BBC over the big inch SBC is huge...about $5k...That would pay for a complete rear end/rear suspension rebuild with all the goodies. That seems like the most cost effective route for me. I will likely call him and confirm tomorrow and get the deposit on the way...:hurray:

Man I hope these motors are everything the members here say they are....;)
 

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Alan I still like the idea of a hydraulic roller in the motor. If you do put a 496 in the vette it would be nice to go aluminum as the cast iron bbc heads are heavy as boat anchors. A 496 with the new afr 265 heads would make good low-midrange power and should easily make over 600hp with a pretty streetable hyd roller. Sheetmetal (Dave) made 575hp on owens dyno with 781 heads (home ported) and a 231/239 hyd roller and 9.5:1 compression with a dual plane.
 
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