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Discussion Starter #41
Bronze68, good pointers. 7P's, has seldom let me down. I'll practice the circle weld to but probably do it as you first suggested, starting on the outside working toward the center. I'm concerned like EricNoca72 mentioned earlier, I could have a blow thru starting my arc in the center where it could be very thin. I really like the idea of the pre measured blankets to insulate the block with, got to be ready after the 10 seconds :)

not sure on water jacket. I have it blocked off now. What you think if I run 1cfh of argon thru it while welding, and then turn it off soon as i'm done welding to avoid it causing rapid cooling.

little more practice, and I should have the 427 buttoned up!

Thanks
Nelson
 

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I don't know that you need to go to that length with the argon, not sure it buys you anything worth the effort in this case. Good and proper surface prep will keep it a very fast endeavor, thereby less time you input heat on the zone. Copper alloy used as braze flows WELL on properly prepared cast iron.

Practice on the junk block.
 

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Along the way, we found a place on the Bayshore Freeway in Fremont, Ca., that was a company that vacuum pulled epoxy filler into porosity holes in those metals, aluminum, copper, cast iron. They used to have a big sign on the freeway where they were, "STOP CASTING POROSITY".

I doubt that place is still there, but there has to be places that do that sort of work still around.
Yes, especially since the Fremont transplant is now a Tesla ELE auto plant. I do recall some porting

guy doing stuff in his back yard. He'd pour green radiator sealent in the engine block, or head, then bolt
closed all the openings and bake it in his BBQ grill. Not really high end he claimed it worked.
I don't thing he used the BBQ grill for food after that.


-- Spike
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Ok got to confess I thought I had ordered Muggy77 but it was actually EZWeld rods. I tried a few more welds, rod flows good. I also grinded down another cylinder spot till I could see water jacket come thru. Did the weld in picture in three shots. With pinning in between. No pre heat. I did clock the temperature in around the weld at 515F. I Just let it cool down, no plink sound. All the other beads I laid also no plink.

So far so good. Should the repair done by next week.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Where can I buy some marine Tex epoxy ??? :)

Failed repair!!!

Well I think I did most of what I was supposed to. But I’m sure I missed something or just the lack of experience with this. I did decide to use a 1/6” 308 rod, I guess cause for some reason it just flowed well on the practice block. I did try several other type rods but at the recommended amps and flows etc the welds looked overheated and gave the impression of being contaminated in some way. I’m sure it was probably something I was doing wrong. Also I did the circle to the center type bead. I prepped the area, used a carbide grinding tip to clean off and dress the area. Preheated the block to approx 300 to 400F. Didn’t dip the tungsten at first. But a couple welds later I did, so I changed it. While al along keeping the block hot with map torch. I must add very stressful type welding. Never welded with so much stress.

Well I pressured it it now leaks at the edge of the weld close the the sleeve. I’m thinking it’s probably coming out from under the weld. Cause the original leak spot did not cave in as I was suspecting it would since I figured it would be a thin spot, but actually it’s pretty thick I guess.

I don’t want to keep chasing the leak. I’m concerned that sleeve might become another issue. So I’m going with the suggestion most of suggested. Seal the the water jacket from the inside.

Not sure if to end this post or look up if the epoxy seal option is posted already somewhere.

At any rate I really appreciate all your help and suggestions!

Thanks Nelson.
 

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Hi Nelson,

Any of the boat supply or repair places should have it
sail or power. I think some Academy's (sports store)
have it in their boating department.

Ace Hardware, etc. Do the google thing
you'll find it. Probably gray is a good color
for a block. You can add chalk or other colors
for other applications.

I think it comes in white, gray, and black.

Just make sure you only use the 5:1 resin to hardner.
Too much hardner and it won't cure. :(
Less hardner is better than more.

right before it cures, if you wet your hands with
dish soap, you for smooth out and form it like putty, etc.

Wash with soap and water or acetone before it cures and
it all good.

Hope it works, let us know of how it goes.

-- Spike
 

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I’m admittedly baffled. Why, after all this discussion and practice, did you use a stainless rod???? I mentioned more than once that stainless can lead to cracking. This could have been an quick braze repair with very minimal and likely no risk at all. If welding was preferred, why not use the nickel filler rod? Now you’ve got a potentially much bigger issue. There’s potential for those cracks to grow under thermal cycling given the section thickness/geometry coupled with the change in base metal microstructure.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Spike thanks for info. not sure yet on course of action with this.

Bronze68, sorry let you all down. I to don't know what compelled me to do this. I should have reviewed all the recommendations before proceeding and also let you all know first i was admit about using the 308 rod. maybe one of you would have told me STOP don't do it. well i F'd-up and now i'm in a new pickle sorta speak. i guess i'll sort some options out here to see what youall think.

1. scrap the project and go do something else more productive with the money and time. (i hate this one)
2. Seal the water jacket best i can from the inside, pressure test again to make sure it stops the leak.
3. pull the sleeve out and try welding it again. (i personally don't like this one) and then re-sleeve it.
4. Stop the hemorrhage $ with the current block, loose the $3200 or so i have spent on it and find another block?
5. Grind down the 308 i put down and try to redue it with bronze? i figure very risky if at all possible. or to late for this.

So bronze68 you figure there's a good chance if i go with option 2 above i could be seeing some sort of crack develop? do you feel there's a good chance my welding created a crack? also factor in that i don't expect this engine to put out more than say 400 to 440HP, and i don't intend to race it, maybe just punch it here in there.

Funny, I'm back to Epoxy, gone full circle. I guess it's been an expensive lesson, but lesson none the less.

Nelson
 

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I would grind most of your weld off and just braze over it again. The one sleeve in your last picture is so pitted up that it needs to come out anyway ?
 

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Dude, you have $3200 in this already, and while I would have bailed long before this point, what will it cost you to grind off what you’ve done, assess the carnage, and if feasible, reweld. You have the materials, correct? Now it’s just time and effort. Oh, and I would still seal from the water jacket, no matter what the results. I think that’s a given, by now.

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Bill / Joe, very true. I understand as someone here said, i'm so deep I cant see the top of the hole i'm in.... lol. Not sure if i keep screwing this up, but while in the office today, i thought what if I add the epoxy inside the water jacket, and for some reason i didn't clean the inside very well or something, and it still leaks? then what, now i got stuff in there i cant really get out. So i got to thinking, what if i pour some K-Seal down in there first to fill the pores then if i need to i can clean it all up and do the Epoxy job over it. So i took a ride to Advance Auto, picked up some K-Seal pour-&-Go. says permanent repair stuff, i' know all of them say that. but this tiny bottle cost $15 buck, almost twice as much as others.

So i first removed a freeze plug, did some pretty good cleaning in there with a small brush and long bronze rod (the one I didn't weld with...lol) and cleaned it as much as i could. Heated up the area to about 250 or so, shook the bottle well, then poured about a 1/4 of it in, added about 2 cups of hot water. put a rubber freeze plug in. rocked the block back and fourth. pressure tested it to 35psi, lo and behold, no leak! wow that crap works fast. not sure how deep in the hole that goes, or how reliable it is, but i spun the engine upside down so there would be no water around the leak area and it still held. no bubbles.

What do you guys think? still grind and weld again? or just leave it alone? maybe add the Epoxy like was suggested?

Thanks
Nelson
 

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Seems like your now just throwing crap at it just to see what sticks??

The K-Seal crap was a huge mistake. now you've got that crap in there on the backside preventing any other repair from the backside unless you have the block hot tanked to remove it. Hell, I would have used waterglass(sodium silicate, get it at the pharmacy) before I tried the miracle in a can crap.

Smarter move would have been to clean the water jacket with acetic acid soak for several days to get rid of rust and corrosion, a base rinse to neutralize any leftover acid, and then seal the entire bottom of the water jacket with about 3/4" or so of pour-in epoxy block filler. Same method guys use when they grind through half a dozen places making room for big strokers.

All your pressure testing on a stand doesn't account for expansion due to the heat of the running engine.

Grinding out the 308 weld and brazing it back up with silicon bronze might not even be a good idea now, since it is another high concentrated area heat cycle.

From my standpoint, you've blown the weld repair chance, now you've blown the good epoxy repair chance, and I can't see any way to make a repair that isn't a total Hail Mary, cross your fingers, hope and pray fix. i just don't have a clue as to what you might do from this point, maybe somebody has an idea??
 

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I’m sorry, but I need to be brutally honest: This is a train wreck.

What should have happened:
1. Stop. Just stop, slow down, and listen.
2. Grind out ALL the stainless weld.
3. Check for cracks using dye penetrant or manga flux. If magna-flux, you need to have 100% of the stainless ground, as it’s not magnetically permeable.
4. If locating any cracks, drill a small hole at each end of each crack to prevent further propagation. However, the base iron under the stainless where you liquified it during welding is no longer ductile. That’s bad. The microstructure has changed and will in fact be more brittle from the chrome carbides generated by welding with stainless. Depending upon the severity of the cracking, you may end up making a larger hole in the block that will need to get plugged and BRAZED shut. If just one or two cracks 1/8” or so long, drill them out and fill with braze. I suspect you’ll find more/larger based on your description. Drilling, tapping, and brazing in a pipe plug would be an option here.
5. BRAZE WITH A COPPER BASED ALLOY. Dot not weld with ANY ferrous filler rod, stainless or carbon as stated in previous posts. Follow the procedure I spent all that time outlining for you.


However, since you’ve already poured that garbage in your block, any of the above is out the window in my opinion. By all means try it and see what happens, but I have no idea of the chance for success. That goop will likely burn or melt and create all kinds of havoc. Perhaps caustic cleaning will remove it.

You can also leave it as is with the K-seal, but no way I’m personally betting on that to be reliable permanent fix. Maybe it will last forever, maybe it will fail during engine break-in.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Good morning.

Your right, both of you and really all of you. I screwed it up, what can I say, I am really hard headed, learning this one the hard way. Should have bought that 99% nickel rod. In hindsight I was probably better off just having left the little pin hole leak alone. Now I’ve got a mess for not following instructions. Don’t think you wrote up all those instructions for nothing, I’m sure this will serve someone with similar problem very well. As I to will follow it to a T next time I need to weld cast. Believe me I learned a lot during all this, I totally feel confident fixing a broken tab or mounting hole or similar damage to a cast iron block, something I never learned in welding school. Also the thicker parts I feel are a little more forgiving. At least on the practice block.

Moving forward (if I can really say that)

I hear your suggestions, really I do. But I think as you say I’ve allready put the K-Seal in, and looking at it this stuff has tiny little metal like particles in the mix, that now have found there way into the leak. If I were to grind everything off and start over I might not ever know if the weld is holding it from leaking or the K crap. I wouldn’t be able to be sure.

So I guess I gotta just leave it at this point and build the engine, break it in and see what it does. I plan to break it in on the stand. So I could flip it and re- pressure test water jacket if needed.

Thanks again
Nelson
 
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