[dgrobels]

i have the original 2004r that came in my 442, this is the same trans that the Gran Nationals use it has a higer stall converter and different valve body than regular passenger car 2004r`s

I was thinking about having it beefed up and use it on my new supercharged 496 thats should make over 700hp

or should i stick with the tried and true th400?

im just thinking out loud but would like to here some opinions on this

 

[Dave427]

I would stick with a 400 myself and adjust your rear-end gearing accordingly to make it streetable. Your 200R4 out of your 442 uses the better servo like the grand national.

Dave

 

[Guest]

The real Art Carr build's the 200-4R up to 800 hp if not mistaken.

Please contact him.

pdq67

Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

 

[novaderrik]

it's not the "same" as the GN trans- the housings are actually a different casting with different passages, and they used a different converter and valve body- but it's close enough, and is slightly more desirable than the Monte SS trans.
there are GN guys in the 9's with them in street driven cars, so they can take abuse and live to tell the tale if you put the right parts in them. if it's stock, and the car sees mostly street driving, it could live a long and happy life as is behind a big block.

 

[mr 4 speed]

Thomas aka 67 Bomber uses a 2004R behind his 496
these guys build a great 2004R www.ckperformance.com

 

[77 cruiser]

Give this guy a shout & see how his is holding up.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2571044
If you use it with street tire only it will definitely be OK with the proper build & will live for a while at the track too. Depends on how much you want to drive it will determine 200-4r or 400.

 

[Warrant]

Chris at CKperformance.com or Bruce at ptsnctb.com is who would want to talk to theirs can take 800+HP, or jump over to turbobuick.com furoms and ask if you want to build it yourself. Im building mine for a 450hp 406 with minimal parts upgrades, but it should be good to 600.

 

[Lionel-n-Chevelles]

I agree with Paul aka pdq67. A 200 4R is the way to go. Art Carr builds reliable units that will not self destruct. http://www.cpttransmission.com/ Hope this helps.
__________________

 

[Bomber '67]

Bruce at www.ptsnctb.com and Chris at www.ckperformance.com are the two top builders of the 200 4R trans as far as I'm concerned. The Real Art Carr is literally a couple of blocks from my house, and instead I chose Bruce for my trans build. Chris sells a bitchin book about performance building of the 200 4R trans http://www.ckperformance.com/resources/GM2004RTECHNICALMANUAL.html , well worth the $65.

Thanks to the die hard Buick GN drag racers there are some excellent hard parts available for the 200 4R, my trans has a 300M input shaft and a billet forward drum - which easily handles my 681 hp 496. With the converter locked it laid down 579 rear wheel hp, unlocked was 541 rwhp. The 200 4R is a very efficient trans.

No matter what you do, use http://www.tvmadeez.com/ The throttle valve cable adjustment is critical to the life and performance of the 200 4R trans, and the BTO setup flat works! If you run a Dominator carb like I do you will have to modify the BTO King Demon EZTV to suit your specific Dominator (strange fact about the Dominator is that not all versions over the years have the same linkage).

Thomas

 

[Warrant]

Thanks to the die hard Buick GN drag racers there are some excellent hard parts available for the 200 4R, my trans has a 300M input shaft and a billet forward drum - which easily handles my 681 hp 496. With the converter locked it laid down 579 rear wheel hp, unlocked was 541 rwhp. The 200 4R is a very efficient trans.

Impressive. What converter?

 

[Bomber '67]

My converter stalls ~ 3,200 rpm, with a toggle switch to activate the lock up feature. I believe the converter came from http://www.tcsperformance.com/ppdnew/s3.html - I had Bruce pick the converter. The trans and converter are ~ 6 years old. There is no odometer in the car, realistically it has ~ 6,000 or so miles of street, highway, drag racing, and burnouts

Thomas

 

[JOHN WILSON]

You might try PM'ing member "Wes Colby" to get his feedback. IIRC, he's using the 200 behind a blown 502 ~800hp.

 

[Guest]

it's not the "same" as the GN trans- the housings are actually a different casting with different passages, and they used a different converter and valve body- but it's close enough, and is slightly more desirable than the Monte SS trans.
there are GN guys in the 9's with them in street driven cars, so they can take abuse and live to tell the tale if you put the right parts in them. if it's stock, and the car sees mostly street driving, it could live a long and happy life as is behind a big block.

I'm not sure where you are getting your information but it is incorrect. There is no difference in the cases or cast passages of the 200-4R from a GN or 442, or even a Cadillac. A 1986 200-4R case is the same, most have the same "402", 403" etc casting in the bellhousing for a given year. Some slight differences in the VB but the 442 VB will work better with a NA car anyway, all will need an upgraded servo for anything over 450 HP.

 

[novaderrik]

I'm not sure where you are getting your information but it is incorrect. There is no difference in the cases or cast passages of the 200-4R from a GN or 442, or even a Cadillac. A 1986 200-4R case is the same, most have the same "402", 403" etc casting in the bellhousing for a given year. Some slight differences in the VB but the 442 VB will work better with a NA car anyway, all will need an upgraded servo for anything over 450 HP.

just going by what i've read posted by many of the same "experts" that other people in this thread have referred to over on www.turbobuick.com.
when i blew the original BQ trans in my T Type a few years ago, i got a replacement trans out of a 307 powered Cutlass so the car would be drivable. i posted over there and asked if i could just put the throttle body and governor from the BQ trans in the junkyard trans and get all the benefits, and the answer from several of those people was that the cases were physically different, and even tho it might shift a bit better, it just won't be as good as the BQ without doing some work to various passages.
ok, so maybe the castings are the same, but they are machined different and get different hard parts.
from what i've gathered, the GN/T Type trans is the best, the 442 is second best, and the Monte SS is third best- but more plentiful than the other two, so used more often. all the rest were said to be not good at all without some work.

 

[dgrobels]

anyone know what the cost of beefing this trans up will cost, id like it to be reliable and be able to drive it on the highway

ive got a few repsonses but SERIOUSLY if i decide to build this trans i want it to last, i drive the car less than 1000 miles a year and if it goes to the track once i want it to be reliable and be able to drive it home

should i stick with my th400, its done and it works
i dont know what the cruise rpm would be at 60mph with a 373 gear with the th400
but if its 3500rpm thats gonna be preety loud inside the car
currently running delta force race mufflers by flowmaster and 3" exhaust its loud inside the car and its got tailpipes im thinking about changing or adding race bullets
to it to quiet it down some or ive also heard dynomax ultr flows are quiet and flow very well

 

[Guest]

I don't know what rear you have under your car, but if it's a 9", I would have two pumpkins, a 4.11 and a 3.00.

One for the strip and one for the road. Heck, you can switch out a pumpkin at the track in, I bet 45 minutes and go!

Then stick w/ your TH400 tranny.

pdq67

Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

 

[77 cruiser]

anyone know what the cost of beefing this trans up will cost, id like it to be reliable and be able to drive it on the highway

ive got a few repsonses but SERIOUSLY if i decide to build this trans i want it to last, i drive the car less than 1000 miles a year and if it goes to the track once i want it to be reliable and be able to drive it home

should i stick with my th400, its done and it works
i dont know what the cruise rpm would be at 60mph with a 373 gear with the th400
but if its 3500rpm thats gonna be preety loud inside the car
currently running delta force race mufflers by flowmaster and 3" exhaust its loud inside the car and its got tailpipes im thinking about changing or adding race bullets
to it to quiet it down some or ive also heard dynomax ultr flows are quiet and flow very well

They're not cheap to build, a built trans & conv. will run you $2500- 3000. As for your RPM @ 60 it won't be that high. It should be 2700 or so with 28" tires.

Give Chris a call. http://www.ckperformance.com/

 

[dgrobels]

They're not cheap to build, a built trans & conv. will run you $2500- 3000. As for your RPM @ 60 it won't be that high. It should be 2700 or so with 28" tires.

Give Chris a call. http://www.ckperformance.com/

is the 2700 rpms with my current th400 and 373 gears?
if it is 2700 at 60mph with my th400 im keeping it, 2500-3000 just doesnt
seem worth the extra money when my current th400 has gone low 10`s ad is reliable and a rebuild is less than 500 from dynamic, he is a good guy to deal with
i also have a 3500 stall in the car now and was told a lower stall may be better for my new blown engine wich should make a boat load of low end torque 700ft lbs? some also say 355`s might be better but with the cam i have i was told 373`s will more than likely be just fine

 

[Guest]

just going by what i've read posted by many of the same "experts" that other people in this thread have referred to over on www.turbobuick.com.
when i blew the original BQ trans in my T Type a few years ago, i got a replacement trans out of a 307 powered Cutlass so the car would be drivable. i posted over there and asked if i could just put the throttle body and governor from the BQ trans in the junkyard trans and get all the benefits, and the answer from several of those people was that the cases were physically different, and even tho it might shift a bit better, it just won't be as good as the BQ without doing some work to various passages.
ok, so maybe the castings are the same, but they are machined different and get different hard parts.
from what i've gathered, the GN/T Type trans is the best, the 442 is second best, and the Monte SS is third best- but more plentiful than the other two, so used more often. all the rest were said to be not good at all without some work.

There are no differences in the case passages. I think you need to go ask those "experts" again, you likely misinterpreted what they are telling you. I deal with Chris at CK often. I have helped him with some of the R&D of his hydraulic circuits and servo for the 200-4R. A case from a given year model 200-4R has the same casting number from a GN or a Cadillac, there are no differences, there are not even any significant differences from the first year to the last. You can take a VB and sep plate from a 1990 model and put it on a 1981 case and the trans will function the same. The hard parts are mostly the same. A GN had a specific VB. gov, and servo, the rest is the same. The planets on the 86-87 models had a thin strip between planet pins to support the thrusts. That is the only difference internally.
I've had the oppurtunity to tear down virgin GN transmissions on several occasions and verify the difference as well as probably one of the few people to totally disassemble and record all the differences in the GN VBs versus the generic ones.

I am curious to actually see who told you that there is a difference in the passages because I doubt it came from any of the experts. Got a link?

 

[BLT4FN]

My 454 with 350 turbo, 3:73 rear gear,28" tire, and a 3000-3500 stall converter, is running 3000 rpm @ 60 mph. 70 is 3500rpm.

The 350 and 400 have the same final drive gear 1:1.